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[paganrose]

moreover I think authorities are looking for one offender who is older wiser so to speak and a younger
offender just discovering himself and I think they are like teacher and student, just my opinion though

 

[Kodiak]

moreover I think authorities are looking for one offender who is older wiser so to speak and a younger
offender just discovering himself and I think they are like teacher and student

Do you mean working together or as in 'serial killer vs. serial killer," like the Manorville Butcher vs. LISK?

 

[nautisiren]

Once a serial killer has chosen a dump site he would be hard pressed not to go back and visit. He will be back. However, I wouldn't put it past him to somehow have a reason to be back there...such as a flat tire. I would definitely use some type of surveillance if I were investigating.

 

[Kodiak]

Once a serial killer has chosen a dump site he would be hard pressed not to go back and visit. He will be back. However, I wouldn't put it past him to somehow have a reason to be back there...such as a flat tire. I would definitely use some type of surveillance if I were investigating.

I'm sure LISK has been there many times before and after the bodies were discovered. I'm sure he's walked, jogged, biked, kayaked, and boated by there on several occasions. And if he's a family man, then the wife and kids have been too–not even realizing who they're with.

 

[dc20015]

And it's said that serial killers don't change their method of killing. But some do, and the Zodiac Killer is a perfect example of this. He did change his method from shooting his victims to stabbing them. His Lake Berryessa attack is the perfect example. He did it to show that he able to use more than one type of killing. But most of all, he did this variant because he want the fun and thrill of the kill to keep going. With that, I believe he used other killing methods as well with other victims that have never been found or murders not linked to him directly. It would be the alternate method that would eliminate him from the LE's perspective.

And... because of what I stated above, I think that the Manorville Butcher and LISK could be the same killer. From changing the butchering method to 'intact bodies in burlap' is a psychological tool to his benefit–to confuse the masses.

I'm no expert, but I have read and watched True Crime stuff since I was a kid and I don't put too much stock into how the bodies were dealt with. It doesn't move me to think one way or the other that some were butchered and some were intact. Look at Bundy. Some of his Washington victims were beheaded and he took the heads home and redeposited them later. Then in Utah he took some whole bodies home. He was also leaving intact bodies in UT and CO. Then in FL he committed a frenzied indoor attack. He's known for killing coeds, but at least 2 of his victims were in junior high. It was the murderer's circumstances that changed, not the murderer. I also think even the experts' knowledge is evolving in this area and it is still poorly understood. Finally, I am also not moved by arguments that the killer or killers couldn't have had an incident like Shannan Gilbert's because he is too careful. I'm not saying she's necessarily connected, I'm just saying she can't be ruled out because it would've been so stupid to let her run screaming around the neighborhood. Don't give these folks too much credit. Even the most "successful" of them made dumb mistakes. Dahmer should've been caught multiple times before his arrest, especially when the young boy ran from his apartment. Bundy's roaming around Lake Sammamish in front of thousands of people chatting up prospective victims and using his own name was not careful. At any rate, all I'm saying is tend to agree that it cannot be determined whether it is one killer or more based on the state of the bodies, cause of death or place of disposal. I think the only thing we can say for sure is the GB4 are related because of proximity and burlap.

 

[honi]

I see you point but it really is a nuts idea... already stretched police departments haven't timeor resources to plant a couple of cops in the marshes awaiting someone they have no clue when he could arrive... senior cops would give this the go ahead...

 

[MidnightSun]

I believe that the pattern of body placement, etc. has been linked to other areas. It may be that since the SG case had generated so much publicity - it's possible he's moved on to other areas or has changed his MO

 

[EnglishRose]

I agree with Really? I don't believe LISK is the sort of man who would post personal ads about himself. He strikes me as a man very much in control, he likes to choose his victims carefully. Advertising himself doesn't seem his style somehow. And what would be the point of advertising himself when he has the perfect pick of hundreds if not thousands of women. He must be like a kid in a sweet shop.

 

[FindHG]

I agree with Really? I don't believe LISK is the sort of man who would post personal ads about himself. He strikes me as a man very much in control, he likes to choose his victims carefully. Advertising himself doesn't seem his style somehow. And what would be the point of advertising himself when he has the perfect pick of hundreds if not thousands of women. He must be like a kid in a sweet shop.

:welcome3: and EnglishRose.​

Smart first posts on this page. Thank you new members.

Sounds like you could be right about that. I wonder if their proclivities only manifest with the women they chose or have a chance to kill, or that the proclivities may have been obvious to other women who have crossed their path over time? And, if that is the case, would these women and/or their backups be too scared to share the information for some reason?

It was interesting to hear the man who vetted johns in "The Killing Season". He states that it would be hard to know which of the strange ones would cross the line, essentially. I would think that kind of vetting would be exactly the kind of thing a serial killer would want to avoid, by pattern, back off from engaging in such circumstances, over and over again, as he scouted for women.

Thank you for joining Websleuths, EnglishRose, and I hope you keep pitching in.

Psychological Markers may be of interest, too.

moreover I think authorities are looking for one offender who is older wiser so to speak and a younger offender just discovering himself and I think they are like teacher and student, just my opinion though

Welcome, paganrose. Thank you for joining and for sharing what you think. An older man grooming an younger one, a driver involved too may be? I wish we knew more about specific things to have answers. All seems possible to me too.

Once a serial killer has chosen a dump site he would be hard pressed not to go back and visit. He will be back. However, I wouldn't put it past him to somehow have a reason to be back there...such as a flat tire. I would definitely use some type of surveillance if I were investigating.

It seems like a no brainer to have had that set up along the beach from when it first came to light, I agree. Welcome naurtisen, and thank you for joining and for sharing your reasoning. I hope you continue.

Geographic Profiling may be of interest too.

 

[Patience]

That ad doesn't strike me as suspicious but I could be wrong. I have been approached by men in the sex trade industry in the past seeking mostly vanilla sex (several years ago) but once on the telephone sex lines, I was approached by a man who invited me to a sex party in Manhatten. He said it was for an extreme BDSM party. I was invited to come for an extended stay, all expenses paid. He said it would be fun. I was creeped out by his over exaggerated accent and how he thought I would have fun being smacked around. I entertained him on the phone because I was just so curious but ended the call when he told me that I would have to wear a pillow case over my head. I am not saying this has anything to do with this case or not as I never got any contact information from him. I do think though that the person doing this is indeed a sexual sadist just like this guy was and I am aware that group activity of this kind does exist and I don't think that it's that easy to find ladies who play in this manner so they look for vunerable and marginized stw's.

I also think that there could be a puppet master. I believe that the pig is significant as they or he wants to get rid society of the pig or Wh*#e and is conflicted because he needs them because this torture is the only sexual release he has and he needs this release to stay sane but then he hates them. I think he hates the mother/child relationship because he was rejected by his mother. He is angered by close family relationships and wants to punish those who have this.

I have also been told by a man how he respected the close relationship that I had with my children. After he gained my trust, he suggested coming to my house and tying up my kids in the basement and throw darts at them. This was not a sex trade interaction but from a Phytotherapist man claiming he was contacting me and he was a protector and was "here to help".

There are countless predators out there. Who to trust? Trust no one. I feel this way not only because I have experienced the sexual sadist but because he does not reveal his true intentions until it's too late.

 

[Salsa]

What kind of behavior of a John would make you post a warning post to other working girls on Back Pages or Craigslist? If you have not had this experience what behavior do you think would make a working warn others to not take out calls.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Didn't the father and son say Gilbert ran that way toward the marsh?

So how would the drug dealing doctor have been able to get her back to his house if she was so paranoid that she ran away from her roommate/driver or whatever?

But another question.

Did Gilbert call the driver to pick her up? Or did the John call? And how soon did the driver get there? And how long did it take for her to run out passed him and away from him?

Did he see her or circle the neighborhood or marsh area?

He knew she was in the vicinity at 5am.

 

[TippyToes123]

Hello, I'm new here. I'm also new to the LISK case. I've heard of it but didn't know any details until I watched the Killing Season. I've spent the past several days reading through the threads here. I haven't read all but I'm very impressed with the work done here.

I'm not sure where to post this thought so I will put it here and hope someone will tell me if there's a better place for it.

What occurs to me is this: the gb4 seems like the work of one sk. The JT case seems like it is gang related, and unrelated to the gb4. I wonder if the placing of the dismembered body parts in the gb4 vicinity was an attempt by gang member(s)to cast suspicion from the murder of JT onto the LISK? Is that even possible, date-wise?

 

[DakotaMayi]

Hello, I'm new here. I'm also new to the LISK case. I've heard of it but didn't know any details until I watched the Killing Season. I've spent the past several days reading through the threads here. I haven't read all but I'm very impressed with the work done here.

I'm not sure where to post this thought so I will put it here and hope someone will tell me if there's a better place for it.

What occurs to me is this: the gb4 seems like the work of one sk. The JT case seems like it is gang related, and unrelated to the gb4. I wonder if the placing of the dismembered body parts in the gb4 vicinity was an attempt by gang member(s)to cast suspicion from the murder of JT onto the LISK? Is that even possible, date-wise?

:welcome:

Thanks for joining us and adding your thoughts!!

There is a thread for the Gilgo 4 - http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?177930-Gilgo-Beach-4-Only-(GB4)

 

[A___]

Hey,

It's very rare working girls will post warnings about johns on BP or CL. We typically use other apps, websites and social media known throughout the community. We don't want to alert the John himself so he can change his phone number, location or other identifying information.

 

[bessie]

Welcome to all new members!

Your participation is appreciated. Please contact a staff member by private message if you have questions about the site, or need assistance.

Thank you.

Bessie
WS Administrator

 

[TippyToes123]

Thank you all for the warm welcome!

 

[relay]

Hey,

It's very rare working girls will post warnings about johns on BP or CL. We typically use other apps, websites and social media known throughout the community. We don't want to alert the John himself so he can change his phone number, location or other identifying information.

Welcome A__, and thank you for contributing here . I wonder if on the alternative apps, websites, and social media you all have or would be willing to create an ongoing data base of questionable johns. Not only might that help you all stay safer, but it may even help find LISK and/or other dangerous predators. I understand there would be efforts required on the part of the sex workers and that there might be numerous issues surrounding this. But, would there be a way to protect the sex workers's anonymity? Is there anyone you can think of whom you could trust to look into this and/or help organize and maintain such a data base?

It may be a thin, thin possibility, but I brought in up anyway--just in case. Stay safe, and thank you again!

 

[DakotaMayi]

Hey,

It's very rare working girls will post warnings about johns on BP or CL. We typically use other apps, websites and social media known throughout the community. We don't want to alert the John himself so he can change his phone number, location or other identifying information.

:welcome4:

 

[A___]

Welcome A__, and thank you for contributing here . I wonder if on the alternative apps, websites, and social media you all have or would be willing to create an ongoing data base of questionable johns. Not only might that help you all stay safer, but it may even help find LISK and/or other dangerous predators. I understand there would be efforts required on the part of the sex workers and that there might be numerous issues surrounding this. But, would there be a way to protect the sex workers's anonymity? Is there anyone you can think of whom you could trust to look into this and/or help organize and maintain such a data base?

It may be a thin, thin possibility, but I brought in up anyway--just in case. Stay safe, and thank you again!

Hi relay,

I feel like there are a large number of girls who don't like to share information with other girl's, almost out of a sense of competition. There would probably be other girl's willing to participate but there would almost be no way to fact check the data. I don't personally know anyone who could help compile such a list but the only way I could think of to do it is just by outright grassroots organization. I don't think a majority of the girls you would find would worry about anonymity, most of the time it's about actually identifying the johns.

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