Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #9 *ARREST

[ShellyGale]

I believe you're telling the truth Frankie

that dream has been on my mind for 19 years and i still remember it like yesterday.

 

[catswhiskers]

agree! Be interesting to find out if he was accounted for, if they had nothing else, he would of passed with flying colours

Remember on the CIA doco they did say that everyone else was accounted for and identified - except for MM. That being said I've always wondered about the doorway guy too.
I've also had a sneaking suspicion that perhaps the CCT video release on CIA may have been a bit of baiting on the part of police - in that they may well have known who MM was, but wanted to get some reaction from the video.
Frankie - are you still in touch with the other guys who were with you the night CG disappeared? Is there a chance either of their recollections about seeing CG talking to someone in a car further up the road were different to yours?
If not, could that detail have been added to the doco by police in an attempt to draw out anyone who had maybe seen or cruised past CG that night but not come forward at the time?

 

[Klutch]

A pedantic person on speed will be both OCD and very quick plus you only make a mess if cut while alive

What does speed have to do with anything? Also i'm going to need to disagree with you, while the speed would make him OCD/Attention to detail and faster, it would also make him extremely paranoid, jittery, and forgetful in stressfull situations to the point he would make mistakes..And attention to detail isn't always a good thing on speed... you can easily get "lost" in it and before you know it 10 hours have passed. Not to mention if its more than just occasional use i seriously doubt he could keep the secret for long...

 

[JoeDetective]

Yep, the wire went to the corner and maybe a little on from there then there was a 'fence' of white wooden posts with chain running through them around the car park that you could have dragged someone over. Bushes all around. Probably more like 10 rather than 30 meters as long as you drag the captive over the chain and post fence which was only a foot high at the middle point of the chains. . Also at the church the bushes used to go up almost to the footpath. If you took someone there you could drag them around the rear of the church to a parked car on Queenslea Dr. Corry Lynn Rd as I mentioned would be safer, or the CCGS gym driveway, but then if he took SS on Stirling Rd. he wasn't shy.

For the attack to have occurred at CCGS, I am going to say CG was far enough down that she was probably intending to walk home to Mosman Park. If she were hitchhiking that would have been obvious to the men who saw her opposite HJ's, with an active serial killer on the loose in the area, it is utter madness.
If she was waiting for a taxi she would not have gone that far and that is past all the phone booths working or otherwise in Claremont.
From what I am told of people who worked with her she isn't hopping in anyone's car unless they were in the legal fraternity.

 

[ShellyGale]

They look similar but MM appears to have a collar and I cant see a collar on the other guy

Is it possible MM and the guy who briefly looks out the doorway 50 seconds later, is the same person? Both appear to have shirt sleeves rolled up to elbows.

 

[JoeDetective]

Unless the boat is owned by a family member and you dont always have access to to..

Maybe if an immediate male relative was a complete fishing nut you would think he would almost certainly at the very least have access to a boat.

 

[Alice Bernadette]

Evening All

Regarding the earlier post about covering the seats etc in case of blood/body fluids.

I have given this some thought and believe that this gives a big clue as to his changing/evolving MO (and the reasons why other cases are possibly his, such as KT).

Fibres from the car seat where found on JR. This indicates that her body had been in direct contact with the car seat. That suggests to me the seat was not covered. Presumably this would mean he was not expecting blood in his car.

Going back to the KK rape - it was a blitz attack outside of the vehicle. But, after covering the victim with a hood and using cable ties to strangle her, he then put her in the vehicle and drove to KK cemetery to rape her. So she is alive in the back of the car being driven to a place to be raped. She is possibly unconscious, though I haven't determined this from the reports so far. But his "prize" is not to kill first, but to rape/assault instead. He wants her alive.

Moving forward to JR. I believe BE is MM. JR's facial expression shows she knew MM, maybe had met him earlier that night. MM possibly offers her a lift save waiting for a taxi, and she accepts. He gets his car, parked nearby, and picks her up. The seats of his car were not covered. Therefore at some stage he had to drive somewhere and somehow get her under his control. Perhaps a pretence of the car breaking down would give him the excuse to be outside and opening the back to access tools. Hood and ties are available again and he repeats the KK MO (or by now, perhaps SS MO too).

CG was different though, it didn't go to plan. Hence the smash on her head with a heavy weapon, which possibly meant no sexual assault.

I agree with a lot of your very good post but I don't think BE is the person who killed KT. I think there might be some rapes that we haven't heard of yet but it would be helpful to know what exactly happened with the girl that was raped in Karrakatta. I know people have said she was "left for dead" but until we find out more it is difficult to comment on whether he could have murdered previously. I personally don't think so although it would be beneficial for the Turners to know who murdered their daughter I don't think it was BE but anything is possible of course.

 

[JoeDetective]

What does speed have to do with anything? Also i'm going to need to disagree with you, while the speed would make him OCD/Attention to detail and faster, it would also make him extremely paranoid, jittery, and forgetful in stressfull situations to the point he would make mistakes..And attention to detail isn't always a good thing on speed... you can easily get "lost" in it and before you know it 10 hours have passed. Not to mention if its more than just occasional use i seriously doubt he could keep the secret for long...

I’m with Klutch,

• where does speed come into this?
• speed would make it worse, more jittery, less predictible as he is not normally on speed
• why would an individual with control issues take drugs and risk being out of control?

 

[petedavo.au]

I have heard multiple theories on this from senior legal figures in WA, happy to PM if you are really interested.

Just speculating, but picking the guy that successfully defending Lloyd Rayney was probably a bit obvious due to the publicity of the case, but then who really did the legal work? Horses for courses. I wouldn't read into it a foreknowledge and preparation based upon choice of lawyers. Anyway, such opinionating guilt because of it, would be Subjudicial.
An acquaintance was going to getting a bit of bother with Crichton-Browne so he got Ian Viner QC and if you know the case, he was vindicated as he should of been.

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[RETPI]

Now that it has been revealed that BE is the alleged CSK.

Has it prompted any memories?

“Oh, sh.t, I’d forgotten about him or I didn’t even think about him”?

Can any websleuther indicate, if they have any information (gleaned from social media or elsewhere, except dreams) that places BE in Claremont, anytime between January 1994 and August 1996?

For example, they know he worked there, saw him in clubs, parked on the street, fixing someone’s phone, even taking a p.ss.

Can anyone indicate whether they have credible reports about him fishing anywhere around the same period?

 

[JoeDetective]

how do i know that place then.i have never seen before the dream. can you explan that please.

You might find this case interesting Frankie, this women dreamt about where her friends dead body was.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-vision-of-murder/

 

[petedavo.au]

Now that it has been revealed that BE is the alleged CSK.

Has it prompted any memories?

“Oh, sh.t, I’d forgotten about him or I didn’t even think about him”?

Can any websleuther indicate, if they have any information (gleaned from social media or elsewhere, except dreams) that places BE in Claremont, anytime between January 1994 and August 1996?

For example, they know he worked there, saw him in clubs, parked on the street, fixing someone’s phone, even taking a p.ss.

Can anyone indicate whether they have credible reports about him fishing anywhere around the same period?

Well, we could assume that he was dating his future wife who worked around there, maybe even while he was still married to the first.

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[JBA512]

Thanks for replying
No, it's not that one. The one I was thinking of just spoke of a direct line through the centre of the hotel, but within metres of each other in comparison to distance from the hotel . May have imagined it ?? Thanks anyways I'll keep looking.

The line does go through the hotel but the hotel is not the centre point.
Centre point is further north on the blvd in floreat.
IIRC a line from the GPO ends up being similar distances
Plently of line talk pre arrest... maybe thread 5 or 6

 

[JoeDetective]

I don't want to harp on this and give it much air but I've been posting here since the start as well as almost all the way through the original BF thread. The number of trolls never cease to amaze me. I suspect it's a small amount of individuals who keep coming back over again but there's almost a constant presence of trolls. Why people come on CSK threads and make stuff up over and over again is beyond my comprehension. Before the arrest, the thread is slower so a troll disrails it pretty easily and quickly.

I’ve only seen one clear cut troll in the past 2 weeks.
That or they were working for BREs defence team and trying to build some reasonable doubt in a public forum.

 

[JoeDetective]

Sara Spiers missing since - 26 January 1996


Excerpt the west news:

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/the-...-from-a-claremont-street-corner-ng-b88337785z

WHAT WE KNOW:
Friday January 26, 1996: Sarah Spiers celebrates Australia Day at Cottesloe’s Ocean Beach Hotel with girlfriends.
Midnight: Sarah’s sister Amanda drops them near Club Bay View, Claremont.
2am: Sarah tells a friend she is getting a taxi to head home.
Sarah chats briefly with the doorman before heading to a nearby phone box.
Call made at 2.06am for taxi at corner of Stirling Highway and Stirling Road.
Two men see Sarah at corner. Taxi arrives at 2.14am. Sarah had vanished.

Need to go back earlier in the day, to the windsor etc.

 

[JoeDetective]

The West Australian just bought out the Sunday Times (Perth Now) ....

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Great isn't it, I look forward to more articles supporting the commercial interests of the owner and their major advertisers.

Nobody(generalisation) under 30 reads the newspaper, why should they? All the info is free, quicker online anyway. It won't really be an issue who owns something that doesn't matter in the future.

 

[CSK?]

I have a theory on the placement of the bodies and the police disclosing limited information.

I was reading up a lot on Gary Ridgeway.

Do you think BRE placed the victims so he could go back to the site and hence they were interfered with in some way afterwards later on? That only him and hence the police knew about?

He didn't bury the victims he just left them there.

KT was also found next to a log face down and not buried


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There are 4 types of serial killers in terms of body locations, dumpers, dumpers/concealers, ones who leave the body at the kill site and ones whom leave the body at the kill site but try to conceal.

BRE was an organised killer whom dumped the bodies with little to no effort to conceal them, dumpers generally dump for one reason to put both time and distance between themselves and the victim or as an attempt to hide the fact they are serial killing because they don't want police swarming all over their hunting grounds. I personally don't think BRE visited the physical bodies after dumping but it is possible that he dumped in areas of some significance through work or recreation that could have allowed him to visit the general areas.

 

[JoeDetective]

I think mum's and their sons can have a different relationship to husband and wife hence the term mummy's boy. It is not uncommon for mums to be overly protective of their sons even when they are married off so doesn't surprise me they can be indenial about their sons behaviour. In this case we are talking about EE and BE's relationship or possibly the lack of it. Mums and sons have different relationships to husband and wife!

Based on a post BE liked on FB I would suggest he loves his mum, and thus has a decent relationship with her.

 

[RETPI]

Well, we could assume that he was dating his future wife who worked around there, maybe even while he was still married to the first.

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We could assume a lot of things, but any credible reports or sightings?

 

[JoeDetective]

I have a theory on the placement of the bodies and the police disclosing limited information.

I was reading up a lot on Gary Ridgeway.

Do you think BRE placed the victims so he could go back to the site and hence they were interfered with in some way afterwards later on? That only him and hence the police knew about?

He didn't bury the victims he just left them there.

KT was also found next to a log face down and not buried


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The bodies would have stunk being left uncovered outside in WA, I don't see him returning to interfere as likely, if he wanted to do that I suspect he would have done things differently.
Unless the bodies were not dumped on the mornings of the attack but kept and then dumped. Maybe in a fridge on a boat.