The Whites Party Photos and also When exactly did JBR die??

[sedndun]

My ongoing "zonked" theory actually began with an idea that the parents could have both gone to the door with the kids alone in the car at the Steins. They come back and find JonBenet "asleep," and Burke looking innocent. I dismissed this idea because: the timing is off, there wouldn't be pineapple, and even if Burke had the baseball bat that was found outside with him in the car, it seems unlikely to get a powerful swing to her head in such close quarters.

I know some fully disagree with my putting her to sleep after being concussed theory, so I don't want to go into it further other than to say that it didn't come from believing the Ramsey's, but rather finding extraneous bits of what I found to be truth in their spin. I've been doing some research to disprove it in my own mind and so far what I've found has had the opposite effect.

 

[andreww]

TeaTime,
Sure is a curious case. It might be the photos exist but are not considered significant, i.e. just Christmas ephemera?

I wonder what the parents did not want anyone to see?

.

I really think that despite giving it a shot, John and Patsy could not stand to be together that day. They opened presents and took a couple of obligatory photos, but I think its pretty obvious that this family was not getting along on that day. So who knows what happened? J&P could have got in to it when they returned home and left the kids to do what they like, possibly fleeing to the most remote part of the house to escape their parents arguing.

 

[Miz Adventure]

I really think that despite giving it a shot, John and Patsy could not stand to be together that day. They opened presents and took a couple of obligatory photos, but I think its pretty obvious that this family was not getting along on that day. So who knows what happened? J&P could have got in to it when they returned home and left the kids to do what they like, possibly fleeing to the most remote part of the house to escape their parents arguing.

My theory is that the parents blamed eachother for not supervising the children after they returned home. John had probably gone to bed, leaving Patsy to finish the last minute packing for the trip the following day.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Well, there are 3 photos that we know of from Christmas morning and surely could be others but the R's 'forgot' to charge the battery of their video camera in time for Christmas. On the same roll of film, there were shots of the hallway off of the kitchen - just random shots of nothing in particular.

Christmas Day. No video camera. JR at the airport for 4 hours, no time for JBR to ride her new bike although BR remembers her sitting on it, and PR dying her hair. A late breakfast and no one remembers another meal until the Whites' party.

Not like any Christmas Day I ever had.

I seem to recall that some of those random shots of the hallway showed one of the notepads in a different place to where it was when the police arrived. Plus a few other items of interest.

ST mentions these discrepancies in his book.

 

[UKGuy]

I really think that despite giving it a shot, John and Patsy could not stand to be together that day. They opened presents and took a couple of obligatory photos, but I think its pretty obvious that this family was not getting along on that day. So who knows what happened? J&P could have got in to it when they returned home and left the kids to do what they like, possibly fleeing to the most remote part of the house to escape their parents arguing.

andreww,
That's funny since you might expect the parents to make an effort on Christmas Day. Think about Patsy's recorded message on video, that was right out of some Walton's script.

Anyway how would not knowing Patsy and John were disagreeing impact on the case?

It has to be something about Burke and/or JonBenet? Something must have been said, since we have some photos, and BPD might have more, so I'll assume its not visual?

Is it possible something Burke said to JonBenet has carried on throughout the day finally exploding after they arrive back from the White's?

.

 

[buggiegirl]

Well, there are 3 photos that we know of from Christmas morning and surely could be others but the R's 'forgot' to charge the battery of their video camera in time for Christmas. On the same roll of film, there were shots of the hallway off of the kitchen - just random shots of nothing in particular.

Christmas Day. No video camera. JR at the airport for 4 hours, no time for JBR to ride her new bike although BR remembers her sitting on it, and PR dying her hair. A late breakfast and no one remembers another meal until the Whites' party.

Not like any Christmas Day I ever had.

Honestly, if there were really no photos of Christmas, don't you think the Ramseys would be wailing about it? Their daughter's last days AND last Christmas and any other year they would have tons of photos and videos of it all.

I don't find the lack of photos too weird, this year I took a short video of my boys opening their big gift and a few photos at the start of present opening then forgot about the camera for the rest of the day in the Christmas madness. I probably have more photos of random days I think they look cute dressed alike or something than I do Christmas morning because it just gets so busy. You'd think the Ramseys would be upset about not having more photos and videos though, if they really don't have them.

 

[buggiegirl]

I really think that despite giving it a shot, John and Patsy could not stand to be together that day. They opened presents and took a couple of obligatory photos, but I think its pretty obvious that this family was not getting along on that day. So who knows what happened? J&P could have got in to it when they returned home and left the kids to do what they like, possibly fleeing to the most remote part of the house to escape their parents arguing.

Could be. I know that as a mom of two little kids, Christmas is CRAZY stressful right now. You want everything to be perfect for the kids, but there is so much to do and so much going on. Not to mention for the Ramseys, going away right after Christmas adds a bunch more stress and organization. I say this because this year, we moved to a new house on the 26th. A huge event, or even a small event like a trip, right after the holiday is nuts.

 

[UKGuy]

On Dr Phil BR states he received a Nintendo 64 and JonBenet got a Dolls House for Christmas, and that they both got bikes

JR later says JonBenet was also given a look alike doll.

So if BR gets a bike too, then there is not much room for argument there.

.

 

[andreww]

I wonder if Burke was unhappy about not getting a bicycle? Something shady was going on with the bycycle story. We may never know. I suspect it somehow threw Burke's resentment off the charts.

But he did get a bicycle. According to Burke anyways.

 

[andreww]

On Dr Phil BR states he received a Nintendo 64 and JonBenet got a Dolls House for Christmas, and that they both got bikes

JR later says JonBenet was also given a look alike doll.

So if BR gets a bike too, then there is not much room for argument there.

.

Seems very odd that Burke said he got a bike. No evidence of it in the photos and no testimony about him riding it that day. We know Burke was whisked away the next day never to return so if he did get a bike, he wouldn't have touched it until months later. So why would he remember it? I suggest he remembers NOT getting a bike more than anything. Perhaps that is what kicked off the obvious discord in the family and LW has just covered that base as well.

 

[Miz Adventure]

The Ramseys didn't seem to do very much for themselves. As the kids weren't dressed and Patsy didn't even have her make up on (I actually think she looked better without it) on Christmas morning they probably didn't bother taking many photos.

The only time photographs were taken was when the family was dressed up and looking their best - and those were taken by professional photographer Judith Phillips (another one who went 'under the bus')

 

[icedtea4me]

Seems very odd that Burke said he got a bike. No evidence of it in the photos and no testimony about him riding it that day. We know Burke was whisked away the next day never to return so if he did get a bike, he wouldn't have touched it until months later. So why would he remember it? I suggest he remembers NOT getting a bike more than anything. Perhaps that is what kicked off the obvious discord in the family and LW has just covered that base as well.

What if he had received a new bike for Christmas 1995? Would it be absolutely, positively 100% impossible for him to have mis-remembered when he received it after nearly twenty years had elapsed, yes or no?

 

[andreww]

What if he had received a new bike for Christmas 1995? Would it be absolutely, positively 100% impossible for him to have mis-remembered when he received it after nearly twenty years had elapsed, yes or no?

He didn't say he "remembered getting a bike". He said "I remember we all got bikes". Those are two different things.

I remember getting a bike for my birthday when I was about 5. I think it snowed and I couldn't ride it, at least thats what I remember. I can tell you with 100% certainty that nobody else in my family got a bike that day.

ETA, Burke was almost 10, if he didn't already have a bike there was definitely something amiss with him.

 

[Userid]

^ Possible IcedTea4me, as is the fact that perhaps his bike was simply out of the frame from the one picture of JBR & BR with their gifts. Or also that, her bike was the one out of frame.

Just to clarify (and I apologize if this has been answered a hundred times already, sincerely), in the following photo, we have an adult bike (for either JR or PR) and a blue bike. Isn't the blue bike BR's? Why would anyone buy a girl a blue bike?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c2/19/d4/c219d4a7810cdce03fe1aa35c530631f.jpg

 

[UKGuy]

Seems very odd that Burke said he got a bike. No evidence of it in the photos and no testimony about him riding it that day. We know Burke was whisked away the next day never to return so if he did get a bike, he wouldn't have touched it until months later. So why would he remember it? I suggest he remembers NOT getting a bike more than anything. Perhaps that is what kicked off the obvious discord in the family and LW has just covered that base as well.

andreww,
Those are words straight out of BR's mouth, i.e. its not a quote, and in the same episode of Dr Phil JR has the opportunity to contradict him he only adds the detail about JonBenet receiving the look alike doll.

Although I agree with you, no record of BR playing on it has appeared, so you might be right and BR is backtracking, just as JR did over the flashlight?

.

 

[andreww]

andreww,
Those are words straight out of BR's mouth, i.e. its not a quote, and in the same episode of Dr Phil JR has the opportunity to contradict him he only adds the detail about JonBenet receiving the look alike doll.

Although I agree with you, no record of BR playing on it has appeared, so you might be right and BR is backtracking, just as JR did over the flashlight?

.

Maybe, like the flashlight, its another smokescreen. Maybe this whole thing started because JB, in Burke's mind, received better gifts. In order to kill that theory they add gifts to even things out twenty years after the fact.

 

[UKGuy]

Maybe, like the flashlight, its another smokescreen. Maybe this whole thing started because JB, in Burke's mind, received better gifts. In order to kill that theory they add gifts to even things out twenty years after the fact.

andreww,
You could be right. having watched BR being interviewed and prompted by Dr Phil, I reckon he could be lying, nearly everything out of his mouth is based on what is plausibly deniable.

That bit where Dr Phil asks, Your Mom came into your room, then a Policeman, did you not want to find out what was going on?

Nope because he know everything that had transpired, that's why he was never scared and was smiling ear to ear at JonBenet's funeral!

 

[Malcolm]

Well, there are 3 photos that we know of from Christmas morning and surely could be others but the R's 'forgot' to charge the battery of their video camera in time for Christmas. On the same roll of film, there were shots of the hallway off of the kitchen - just random shots of nothing in particular.

Christmas Day. No video camera. JR at the airport for 4 hours, no time for JBR to ride her new bike although BR remembers her sitting on it, and PR dying her hair. A late breakfast and no one remembers another meal until the Whites' party.

Not like any Christmas Day I ever had.

Great points!!! Where was the big xmas day family lunch??? Surely a wealthy family like the R's would have a big spread and xmas celebrations ready to go - like almost every other family in the country. What was going on in this house??

Did BR have a massive temper tantrum about not getting enough presents and disrupt the whole days activities. Did JR go to the airport because he didn't want to handle it and left it up to PR - I mean he had a personal pilot why did he have to spend 4 hours out there. Did this dysfunction lead to the events later that night??

I haven't seen any in depth questioning of the Ramseys, or statements by them, explaining exactly what happened and why during xmas day. Can anyone help with any information on this??

 

[ZoriahNZ]

There is a bike in the WC where JonBenet's body was found. Whose is it? Looks like a kid's bike. If it's down there, though, wouldn't that mean it was not in use?

Still from the Reelz documentary:

6 LOU SMIT: Okay. Did you go to the
7 Barnhills
8 to pick up a bike?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, Christmas Eve. We'd

10 given JonBenet a bike; we got Patsy a bike. We
11 were giving Burke a bike but not that year.
12 Anyway, there was a bike that we put in their
13 basement, and I gone over after the kids went to
14 bed to get it to put it under the tree. And Joe
15 went down to the garage and went down to get it
16 and brought it up. I offered to go get it and he
17 said no, he'd go get it himself. I don't know
18 where it specifically was, whether it was actually
19 in his garage or his basement.
20 LOU SMIT: You know, I've looked at a lot
21 of pictures in regards to this particular case and
22 I can't remember seeing any bikes. What happened
23 to the bikes?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, they were in the garage,
25 I guess. JonBenet rode her bike for a moment
0065
1 outside before we went to the White's; just round
2 the patio. I'm sure that went back in the garage.
3 Patsy's bike, I don't know, it could have gone in
4 the garage. I don't remember.
5 LOU SMIT: Have you seen it since, Patsy's
6 bike?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. We have it.
8 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE) took it?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: No. We gave, Jonbenet's bike
10 we gave away. Patsy's bike we haven't (INAUDIBLE).

http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm

 

[HarmonyE.]

I've always thought "We were giving Burke a bike but not that year" was a really strange comment. They were giving Burke a bike. But not that year? What year then? Either the kid was getting a new bike that Christmas or he wasn't. It makes you wonder if they were planning on getting Burke a new bike for Christmas but changed plans for some reason. Some form of punishment? Mommy and JonnyBee are getting new bikes, but not you, you didn't take care of the last one we gave you. Or you aren't getting it until you start behaving. Or you can use your old one for now because there is nothing wrong with the one stored in the Wine Cellar and you hardly ever ride it anyway.

John has been pretty consistent about getting two bikes to put under the tree, one for JBR and one for Patsy. I don't think Burke got a bike and I think it's interesting that he's either remembering wrong or made up a lie about getting one on Dr. Phil. Is this an issue? Is this THE issue?

(as for the question someone asked about "who would buy a girl a blue bike?" Um, me. It's my daughter's favorite color and I was unaware that there was some rule that girls can't have blue bikes. I know giving her a blue receiving blanket as a baby would have branded me a bad parent, but she wouldn't have ridden a pink bike if you paid her.)