OR - PRESIDENTIAL PARDON - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #4

[i.b.nora]

Really good article, imo:

Transcript of Juror 4's emails: His explanation for Ammon Bundy verdict
By Maxine Bernstein | The Oregonian/OregonLive
on November 03, 2016 at 5:00 AM, updated November 03, 2016 at 9:58 AM

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/11/transcript_of_juror_4s_emails.html

“Juror 4 has so far provided the only public explanation of the behind-the-scenes discussions that led to the acquittal of Ammon Bundy, his brother and five others on federal conspiracy charges stemming from the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation.

Readers have asked to hear more from him about the jury's reasoning in reaching the surprising decision.

Juror 4 – a 44-year-old business administration student at Marylhurst University who served in the Navy during the Iraq War – went into detail in a series of email exchanges with The Oregonian/OregonLive that were used in news stories.

Here's a transcript of the emails, with some minor editing for brevity or clarity. He's asked not to be identified for fear of retribution. The judge sealed the names of all nine women and three men on the jury, citing public safety.”​

 

[Betty P]

Really good article, imo:

Transcript of Juror 4's emails: His explanation for Ammon Bundy verdict
By Maxine Bernstein | The Oregonian/OregonLive
on November 03, 2016 at 5:00 AM, updated November 03, 2016 at 9:58 AM

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/11/transcript_of_juror_4s_emails.html

“Juror 4 has so far provided the only public explanation of the behind-the-scenes discussions that led to the acquittal of Ammon Bundy, his brother and five others on federal conspiracy charges stemming from the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation.

Readers have asked to hear more from him about the jury's reasoning in reaching the surprising decision.

Juror 4 – a 44-year-old business administration student at Marylhurst University who served in the Navy during the Iraq War – went into detail in a series of email exchanges with The Oregonian/OregonLive that were used in news stories.

Here's a transcript of the emails, with some minor editing for brevity or clarity. He's asked not to be identified for fear of retribution. The judge sealed the names of all nine women and three men on the jury, citing public safety.”​

Some interesting mental gymnastics in those explanations, this one regarding the theft of the government truck to drive to town and the removal of FBI surveillance cameras:

With count four, we were split for a good while and it didn't look like we could agree. Because this law requires us to consider intent, one of the jurors pressed hard on the issue of what Medenbach was thinking (adverse possession: he believed it was no longer a refuge truck). The video/audio evidence of his arrest was instructive, confirming a mindset. Some jurors were impressed by the surprise Medenbach expressed to the state police officer when told that the rig was reported as stolen. Another said if he had been caught with it while not doing 'resource center' business, so to speak, then it would have demonstrated his intent was not consistent with the claim. Eventually, none of us could imagine he was not going to return the vehicle to the refuge.

BBM

So, Mendenback wasn't guilty of stealing the government truck because he didn't think of it as government property anymore. Okaaay.... I guess that means anyone who steals something is considered not-guilty of theft if they simply no longer think of the stolen property as belonging to someone else. :thinking:

This jury didn't do it's job, period.

 

[i.b.nora]

This is a really good, interesting article, imo. My favorite kind.

Who was John Killman? A tip and detective work unmask mystery man at Oregon refuge
By Maxine Bernstein | The Oregonian/OregonLive
on November 05, 2016 at 5:00 AM, updated November 05, 2016 at 1:16 PM

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/11/who_was_john_killman_a_tip_and.html

“On a late January day, near the end of the 41-day occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, a man named John Killman joined Ammon and Ryan Bundy and other protesters.

He spoke with a French accent and provided occupiers with food and firearms training. He was friends with many of them on Facebook.

There was a catch, however: John Killman didn't exist.

The discovery that Killman was an FBI informant hit just before the surprising outcome of the trial of seven refuge occupiers. The revelation may have sounded the death knell for a struggling prosecution, now faced with more questions about how informants may have influenced the case.

Killman's secret role wouldn't have come to light except for a chance conversation and fast detective work by defense attorneys.”​

 

[Fairy1]

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/jury-sworn-in-for-trial-of-6-in-bundy-standoff-case/651936031

Jury selected in first of Nevada trials.

 

[Fairy1]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/02/10/cliven-bundy-case-agent/97734792/

PHOENIX — A federal judge in Las Vegas ordered prosecutors in the Bundy Ranch standoff trials to turn over an investigative report accusing a key government witness of wrongdoing.

Judge Gloria Navarro denied motions to dismiss charges against 17 defendants who claimed the government withheld evidence by concealing misconduct allegations against the federal agent in charge of operations during the 2014 standoff.

 

[Elley Mae]

Was there any proof that the people involved were actually militia members as the title of the thread suggest?

 

[Fairy1]

Was there any proof that the people involved were actually militia members as the title of the thread suggest?

Same group as the "militia" in Oregon - the Bundy's. Different location. And I'm sure you meant to say "suggestS."

 

[Elley Mae]

I'll take that as a, No.

 

[Tawny]

Was there any proof that the people involved were actually militia members as the title of the thread suggest?

I'll take that as a, No.

They were a group of armed civilians holding federal land hostage and threatening/using violence. Yes, they are a militia. Part of the definition of militia is "all able-bodied civilians eligible by law for military service."

What "official" evidence do you need? Some sort of creed or boy scout badge?

smh

 

[Elley Mae]

Read these, then maybe some would understand what it was really about. It has absolutely nothing to do with Radical Islamic Terrorist. As far as I see it they were activist trying to make light of the heavy had of the gov. Just because some people (groups of people) that stand up for what others don't agree with for their own reasons doesn't make them, militia. If that is what makes some happy to call them a militia group maybe their reading the news that calls them that because that is what they want to hear. Just because they are being referred to that doesn't make them that. jmo




Fri Aug 31, 2012
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831


4/15/2014
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/bundy-ranch-harry-reid-rory-reid/



Oregon militia or militants? Media wrestle with labels

http://www.oregonlive.com/editors/index.ssf/2016/01/oregon_militia_or_militants_me.html



The long fight between the Bundys and the federal government, from 1989 to today


January 4, 2016
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...he-federal-government/?utm_term=.a04f4f077e26




http://www.oregonlive.com/editors/index.ssf/2016/01/oregon_militia_or_militants_me.html

Words matter in journalism. Is water boarding torture? Is someone anti-abortion or anti-choice? Is a politician liberal or progressive?

The dictionary defines "militia" as this: "a group of people who are not part of the armed forces of a country but are trained like soldiers." There is no indication that members of the group at the Malheur refuge are trained like soldiers. A fuller definition is: "a: a part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency b : a body of citizens organized for military service."

 

[Elley Mae]

They were a group of armed civilians holding federal land hostage and threatening/using violence. Yes, they are a militia. Part of the definition of militia is "all able-bodied civilians eligible by law for military service."

What "official" evidence do you need? Some sort of creed or boy scout badge?

smh

I see you edited out the isis reference.

 

[Tawny]

I see you edited out the isis reference.

Yup because it wasn't relevant.

Your definition of militia is completely off the mark. They are militia because they organized, armed themselves, and occupied federal land for their own PERSONAL benefit.

ETA: I edited it out right away. It took you an hour to reply.

 

[Elley Mae]

Yup because it wasn't relevant.

Your definition of militia is completely off the mark. They are militia because they organized, armed themselves, and occupied federal land for their own PERSONAL benefit.

ETA: I edited it out right away. It took you an hour to reply.

bbm Public land.

 

[Elley Mae]

Yup because it wasn't relevant.

Your definition of militia is completely off the mark. They are militia because they organized, armed themselves, and occupied federal land for their own PERSONAL benefit.

ETA: I edited it out right away. It took you an hour to reply.

bbm Exsqueeze me.

 

[Tawny]

bbm Public land.

Fair enough. They were occupying PUBLIC land for their own personal benefit.

bbm Exsqueeze me.

Where was the lie? My point was, I edited it well in advance of your reply, because I realized quite quickly it was irrelevant.

 

[Elley Mae]

Fair enough. They were occupying PUBLIC land for their own personal benefit.



Where was the lie? My point was, I edited it well in advance of your reply, because I realized quite quickly it was irrelevant.

Point taken, next time I'll quote, that way it will be there. Far enough.

 

[Tawny]

Point taken, next time I'll quote, that way it will be there. Far enough.

I don't know if you're implying I edited it to like hide something I said, but it isn't my fault you didn't pay attention to the latest version of my post in the hour it took for you to post your reply.

 

[Fairy1]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us-jury-bundy-standoff-trial-fbi-aerial-scene-45465244

Jurors got a unique perspective from the FBI Monday of an armed standoff developing in a dry river wash where six defendants are accused of wielding weapons to force federal agents to abandon a round-up of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy's cattle in April 2014.

Special Agent E.J. McEwen testified that people on the ground probably didn't know he was nearly 12,000 feet above, recording video from a single-engine airplane as the noontime standoff developed beneath an Interstate 15 overpass near the community of Bunkerville. At that altitude, the Cessna would be hard to see or hear, McEwen told Assistant U.S. Attorney Steven Myhre.

 

[bluesneakers]

New Video Shows Undercover FBI Operation Against Bundy Family

The undercover operation by “Longbow Productions” began shortly after the Bundy family and hundreds of supporters, many of them armed, forced government agents to surrender cattle they’d impounded from the family in 2014.

In audio and video recordings of the operation, an FBI agent going by the pseudonym “Charles Johnson” tries to find out the Bundy “family rank structure” and who planned the uprising in the desert town of Bunkerville.

Frontline: American Patriot: Inside the Armed Uprising Against the Federal Government
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/f...rmed-uprising-against-the-federal-government/

 

[WesternArtist]

FBI agent W. Joseph Astarita has been indicted:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-agent-indicted-charges-lying-robert-lavoy-finicum-shooting/
(hopefully this is the right thread for this... I just wanted to make sure this development was posted somewhere)