IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #32

[TheSecondLaw]

Full Moon was on Feb 12th, so on the night of the 13th it would have still been a very full waning.

 

[Imvp2]

Oh he had? Do you have a link to that? Thanks!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...I43m3p9rmpPrrsBKA&sig2=FRhRWVVnMBw6dR6WJc36QA

May 21 2014 RL reports a trespasser. Just 1 I found

 

[ocgrad]

If they are dust print at RL's house, how long the prints are going to be available?


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I read an article of a killer who was caught well after the case was cold by an investigator who would not give up trying to bust his alibi and was finally able to find a rental receipt car or parking garage ticket and when the car was found 4 yrs later, her fingerprints were still able to be lifted from inside the trunk!
In this case, finding evidence can somewhat depend on whether he or someone else worked to cover up the crime scene. That by itself could be very telling. If it has not been wiped down and they find the prints and evidence they are looking for that could mean RL didn't know. If it has all been wiped down and cleaned it could go either way. RL is covering up. Someone else covered up the crime scene. Or simply RL has a person who comes in once a week to clean. But doubtful that person would clean the out buildings, wipe down the gate, clean the truck, etc. I think even if the killer(s) were very contained and careful it's 2 girls and more than one man and too big a place to not leave evidence behind.

 

[Ontario Mom]

This thread moves so fast it's nearly impossible to keep up. That said, I was wondering about something...

RL has been identified in the MSM as not a suspect in this case (I've heard journalists say it many many times) so I just have to wonder, why he's been named/sleuthed as if he is? If I missed something, someone please point me in the right direction?

 

[Hatfield]

I have been trying (unsuccessfully) to keep up with all pages in each thread, however I missed the explanations as to why the girls were not found on the property during searching on the evening of the 13th. Was it simply that this area of the property was not searched until halfway through the following day or am I missing something?

We dont know why the bodies were not found that first night. Its a great question we have asked ourselves quite a few times.

Here is JMO about it.

We know it was getting late in the day when the search people really started to actively look for them. Dark was approaching.
The family knew right away that something may have happened to them when they could not be reached. But it took LE and others longer to get convinced that something bad could have happened.

So as it was getting dark IMO I dont think LE was as convinced as the family that anything truly bad had happened. LE is aware that in lots of cases a missing person turns up and is usually ok so it took them longer to get convinced something was wrong.

So when it was getting dark I believe LE made the call for the safety of the searchers to wait until morning before really going through the area more closely. I think they had hoped the girls had just left and would turn up.

By morning the search really took off and they were found.

Another possibility is the girls bodies may have been moved during the night from one place to their final place. That is another possibility that has been discussed and IMO it is a possible reason why they were not spotted that first night.

It is sad that more aggressive searching had not gone on througout the night. Hindsight is always 20-20. I am very sure that all involved now wish they would have aggressively searched all through the night. I am sure the family members wanted to and some of them may have tried on their own.

 

[LaborDayRN]

(edit - this is long, please bear with me and have an open mind) -

alright well i finished catching up and for sure nobody has posted what I find so compelling about the images of BG and RL.

I have told myself all along that I don't think they're the same person. I think RL looks fatter/stockier up in his upper rib cage.

But here's the thing... is anyone here familiar with moderator Carl's work in the UID (unidentified) forum? The way he overlays faces and finds points that line up and match, and subsequently has come up with actual matches based on images that some people might not necessarily think are the same person?

See, that's what happened here for me. I sent the pics of BG and RL to a friend of mine who is a professional 3D videographer and photoshop expert, and all around perfectionist. He knows nothing about the case and has no preconceived notions, nor did he know or care who the people were. He just knew I wondered whether he felt it was possible they were the same person (because I was sure they were NOT).

His conclusions shocked me. All he had to do was flip BG's photos, put them side by side scaled the same, and then he explained to me that too many points align for him to be willing to say it's NOT the same person, and in fact the arms. THE ARMS.

look at the arms.

That is an unusual and unique feature of his overall gait, the way he holds his arms and his elbows. One is always up higher than the other, one side pointed out at an angle and the other lower and more curved.

View attachment 113049

The waist falls at the same place. the knees are located the same distance from feet and waist. There's even the same shadow/hanging thing (pocket, fanny pack, whatever) appearing there. He asserts that to him the face matches. He said to me "its' even the same camoflauge hat" to which I replied "FOR THE LOVE OF G-d, ITS A HOODIE" and he said "are you sure?" and I said "well, no" and he said "look again".

This is his set of images he sent back to me. I asked him to watermark them, to make an account here, to post them himself, and he gave me full permission to take ownership of his photo manipulation and submit it as my own, and transferred copyright of his intellectual work as such to me.

So here's our/my photo. See what you all think. Keep in mind that I went into this convinced it wasn't RL. Now I can't unsee the matching stuff, in particular those arms/elbows. (and as an aside, check out Carl's great work in the UID forum sometime if you haven't yet!)

[photo manipulation is -based on- the side by side comparison posted earlier in this thread, and I will edit in the original poster's name as soon as I find it, unless someone recalls who it was offhand, thanks!]

The arm positions really strike me as distinctive. Rather compelling IMO.

 

[haven71]

(edit - this is long, please bear with me and have an open mind) -

alright well i finished catching up and for sure nobody has posted what I find so compelling about the images of BG and RL.

I have told myself all along that I don't think they're the same person. I think RL looks fatter/stockier up in his upper rib cage.

But here's the thing... is anyone here familiar with moderator Carl's work in the UID (unidentified) forum? The way he overlays faces and finds points that line up and match, and subsequently has come up with actual matches based on images that some people might not necessarily think are the same person?

See, that's what happened here for me. I sent the pics of BG and RL to a friend of mine who is a professional 3D videographer and photoshop expert, and all around perfectionist. He knows nothing about the case and has no preconceived notions, nor did he know or care who the people were. He just knew I wondered whether he felt it was possible they were the same person (because I was sure they were NOT).

His conclusions shocked me. All he had to do was flip BG's photos, put them side by side scaled the same, and then he explained to me that too many points align for him to be willing to say it's NOT the same person, and in fact the arms. THE ARMS.

look at the arms.

That is an unusual and unique feature of his overall gait, the way he holds his arms and his elbows. One is always up higher than the other, one side pointed out at an angle and the other lower and more curved.

The waist falls at the same place. the knees are located the same distance from feet and waist. There's even the same shadow/hanging thing (pocket, fanny pack, whatever) appearing there. He asserts that to him the face matches. He said to me "its' even the same camoflauge hat" to which I replied "FOR THE LOVE OF G-d, ITS A HOODIE" and he said "are you sure?" and I said "well, no" and he said "look again".

This is his set of images he sent back to me. I asked him to watermark them, to make an account here, to post them himself, and he gave me full permission to take ownership of his photo manipulation and submit it as my own, and transferred copyright of his intellectual work as such to me.

So here's our/my photo. See what you all think. Keep in mind that I went into this convinced it wasn't RL. Now I can't unsee the matching stuff, in particular those arms/elbows. (and as an aside, check out Carl's great work in the UID forum sometime if you haven't yet!)

[photo manipulation is -based on- the side by side comparison posted earlier in this thread, and I will edit in the original poster's name as soon as I find it, unless someone recalls who it was offhand, thanks!]

The arms, oh yeah, I certainly see the same rather odd position of the left arm being higher up in both pictures.

However, look at the length of the torso. RL has a visibly longer torso in relation to his legs IMO. Also, his shoulders are broader and he's thicker up top.

I do not think they are the same person. JMO.

 

[Steleheart]

ATTENTION EVERYONE:

With the latest search warrant being served at the home of property owner Ron Logan we have decided to open up Ron Logan to sleuthing with these rules:

*Use his initials only (R.L.) or call him the land owner.

*This does not mean you can sleuth his family or neighbors.

*In the event you do discover something about someone else who happens to be connected to R.L. and you think
it is related to the case you must check with us before you post it.

* R.L HAS NOT BEEN NAMED A PERSON OF INTEREST. Please do not accuse him of the crime.

If you have any questions alert on any post and send us your question. Or you can send a private message to one of the mods.

To reiterate, You can now sleuth the land owner R.L. but ONLY R.L. No accusing R.L. or anyone of being the killer.

Thank you,
Tricia

:bump:

This thread moves so fast it's nearly impossible to keep up. That said, I was wondering about something...

RL has been identified in the MSM as not a suspect in this case (I've heard journalists say it many many times) so I just have to wonder, why he's been named/sleuthed as if he is? If I missed something, someone please point me in the right direction?

Here it is for you... top of this thread.

 

[No it's not]

Theoretically, if you have the pings showing the time and the tower locations ( Libby's cell phone was "pinging around town"), and now if you had Libby's cell phone and try a route in a vehicle, would the pings at some point possibly confirm such route?
And would the towers pick up any other pings emitted from any other gadget or cell phone from within the vehicle, so that the pings in the end overlapped based on towers and time? Would a gadget like for example a GPS in a vehicle transmit via synced social media or email address and showing pings?

-Nin

 

[TheSecondLaw]

Another possibility is the girls bodies may have been moved during the night from one place to their final place. That is another possibility that has been discussed and IMO it is a possible reason why they were not spotted that first night.

I have considered this possibility also, however if this were the case one would assume a more distant, secluded location would be chosen as the final place. Then again, who knows the rationale of whoever is responsible for this...

 

[Eileen730]

We dont know why the bodies were not found that first night. Its a great question we have asked ourselves quite a few times.

Here is JMO about it.

We know it was getting late in the day when the search people really started to actively look for them. Dark was approaching.
The family knew right away that something may have happened to them when they could not be reached. But it took LE and others longer to get convinced that something bad could have happened.

So as it was getting dark IMO I dont think LE was as convinced as the family that anything truly bad had happened. LE is aware that in lots of cases a missing person turns up and is usually ok so it took them longer to get convinced something was wrong.

So when it was getting dark I believe LE made the call for the safety of the searchers to wait until morning before really going through the area more closely. I think they had hoped the girls had just left and would turn up.

By morning the search really took off and they were found.

Another possibility is the girls bodies may have been moved during the night from one place to their final place. That is another possibility that has been discussed and IMO it is a possible reason why they were not spotted that first night.

It is sad that more aggressive searching had not gone on througout the night. Hindsight is always 20-20. I am very sure that all involved now wish they would have aggressively searched all through the night. I am sure the family members wanted to and some of them may have tried on their own.

I think they had to have been moved.
jmo

 

[ocgrad]

Saving my spot.

On a side note, anyone know if there is any type of connection between the search warrant executed on bicycle road and RL property?


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I have been searching for this and cannot find a connection. Also the one in Logansport? Could all of these searches be connected to one person or family?

 

[tokyorose]

Can't believe I didn't think of this before, but I wonder if Abby or Libby had a salt water fish tank? Just wondering out loud because of all the tropical fish speculation. I also wonder if anyone was home at either of the two girls homes around the time they went missing.....for the record I am not implying that family was in any way involved.....

 

[Momma2cam]

I have been searching for this and cannot find a connection. Also the one in Logansport? Could all of these searches be connected to one person or family?

Certainly could be. Nothing confirmed in msm, though. Jmo.

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[PennxQuakerxGirl]

Afternoon, everybody! First post here on WS. This case led me here and I look forward to reading (and hopefully contributing) the discussion.

 

[Owl4]

Afternoon, everybody! First post here on WS. This case led me here and I look forward to reading (and hopefully contributing) the discussion.

Welcome PennxQuakerxGirl!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

 

[ilovepierre]

Not really--we're allowed to sleuth him because he's in jail on probation violation charges--and a new search warrant was executed on his property.

Ok! Thanks

 

[IceIce9]

I have been searching for this and cannot find a connection. Also the one in Logansport? Could all of these searches be connected to one person or family?

I wonder about this too, and I wonder about a Logansport connection. Especially since the attorney is from Logansport, it crossed my mind that he might be a family attorney or an attorney recommended by a friend.

 

[GGE]

The arms, oh yeah, I certainly see the same rather odd position of the left arm being higher up in both pictures.

However, look at the length of the torso. RL has a visibly longer torso in relation to his legs IMO. Also, his shoulders are broader and he's thicker up top.

I do not think they are the same person. JMO.

This is why I don't know what I believe. Because I agree with you.

But I can't un-see the arms and the're very compelling IMO.

I'm at a loss to form any opinion right now. I really have thrown out everything I thought I was so sure of over the past number of hours.

 

[SuziQ]

I don't want to be the naysayer here, and especially as GGE has been so helpful to me, but if you have to invert a photo to make RL and BG line up then how is that a match? I agree that on the surface this is a wow moment but then I stop and remember that the left arm you see looking longer and straighter on RL is the opposite arm for BG (his photo has been inverted), same with the right arm higher up and bent more at the elbow.

I would like to propose this and bear with me:

I am left handed and therefore carry things in my left pocket jacket (gloves, phone, etc.) which fills a portion of the jacket pocket up.

If I put my hands in my pockets, the left hand necessarily would not be able to fit the full depth of the pocket. So my left arm would be bent at the elbow and higher up.

My right arm would be extended straighter because it has the full depth of the pocket in which to extend.

If my husband does the same, his right arm would be bent and his left arm straighter as he carries things in his right pocket (right handed).

If you inverted his photo, we would not line up obviously but the arm configuration would match.

Just my analysis. Feel free lob your cannon balls!

No cannonballs. I should clarify that I did compare other pics on my own.

I will say this, how people carry themselves can be a distinct trait within families. Mine included.