IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #42

[eryn.a.huff]

In the original press conderence,Doug Carter refers to his shirt tail. They don't mention a fanny pack at all. So i'm going with that as being his shirt.In my opinion... [video=youtube;mZcHfgbOcKo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZcHfgbOcKo[/video]

I hadn't seen that before, thanks for sharing! Maybe his right hand is up inside his jacket, but on top of his brown shirt. Can't think of any other reason to do such a thing other than trying to hide something in his hand. To me, it looks like he is holding a gun under his jacket and what people thought was the butt of the gun in his pocket is actually the end of the barrel and above it is the flap on the top of the pockets in his jacket like typical pockets of "utility" clothes. JMO


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[Confusion]

Just to play devil's advocate- If you didn't know RL's age and just had to guess by looking at him, would you honestly guess he was 77? Because frankly I don't think I would. My father is 77 and my mom is a few years younger. There's significant differences in both my parents health and activity levels (in fact my less healthy parent is more active honestly) And I think it's an interesting age in that regard anyway, lots of variables to how folks age. But all that said, how old would you guess RL was after seeing those video clips and interviews if you didn't know?

I think I need to get into some speed reading classes so I'm not always so far behind. Anyway, I'd guess him to be at least 70 based on the people I know. I have relatives his age, and one several years older, and they all look younger than he does. Of course when my aunt was 16, many people thought she was my mother's older sister. My mother was about 40 at the time, so I guess you really can't always tell. MOO

 

[kizzykat]

Yes, you can get under it at the ends. Here is a view with someone standing under with their hands up thru the rails and a view of the underneath. (oops one pic turned sideways)

I hope you don't mind, I took the pic taken beneath the bridge (that was sideways) and turned it right side up so the RR ties are at the top.

ETA: This is a side view of the bridge to show the side support walls just beneath the ties. It might help with perspective when looking at the pic taken from beneath the bridge.

 

[Confusion]

I hadn't seen that before, thanks for sharing! Maybe his right hand is up inside his jacket, but on top of his brown shirt. Can't think of any other reason to do such a thing other than trying to hide something in his hand. To me, it looks like he is holding a gun under his jacket and what people thought was the butt of the gun in his pocket is actually the end of the barrel and above it is the flap on the top of the pockets in his jacket like typical pockets of "utility" clothes. JMO


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Maybe he was reaching into an inside pocket for a pack of cigarettes or something (or putting them away after lighting one up).

 

[SouthernCutie]

I agree with you. The sight of 2 murdered kids is enough to shake the most hardened of LE. I don't believe there is anything else to it. If he didn't notice her filming, I don't think he has the skills to upload to the dark net. I have accessed it for research for my books. It isn't like just getting on FB and sharing a picture.

I'm glad you said that. It's actually very difficult to access it and my son is majoring in computers. The average person would not be able to. Its very easy to Google it and get the idea what it is but not so much getting on it. That's why people feel safe using it for illegal activity IMO
ETA ITA about the crimes too even the most seasoned detectives in big cities handle children murdered difficultly I'd imagine it shook Delphi to the core. They had not dealt with anything near this IIRC MOO

💘 💘Love always wins 💘 💘

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

Agreed, which is why I also have a hard time concluding that BG could possibly be RL. It's not as much the perceived differences in appearance in the still photos they released as it is the fact that they have scene the video, which is likely much clearer than the captured stills, and they chose to release his photo nationwide. If it were clearly RL in the video, this doesn't seem like it would be necessary, considering the girls were discovered on his land. If it were clearly RL in the video, assuming, as LE has said, that "criminal activity" was about to take place, that coupled with the fact that the girls were found on his property would likely be enough to charge him with this crime, even without much, or any, other evidence. I suppose time will tell.

If anything, I'd assume the actual video evidence itself is what would come into play at trial. So many have said if we could just see the guy moving it might be easier to identify him. Not to mention if in fact Libby did manage to record the entire crime as many suspect, my gosh can you imagine? There may well be other evidence there that LE is holding back (due to the graphic/violent nature, to not give too much away, etc). So I don't know but I suspect that video and maybe even the stills from it could indeed have their use in a trial.

Obviously all speculation. We have no idea what all was on that recording. But I'd bet it could still help with a conviction.


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[Novelist]

Question: Has Tippecanoe Ranch Road ever been mentioned in this investigation??

Not that I remember. Why?

 

[Burnt Toast]

Yes, someone would put something like that on the web. IMO

i can't imagine the girls were victims of a "snuff" film. i just can't see that as a viable possibility...but that's me.

 

[Aropizt]

IMOO I am currently leaning toward the theory that this may be a drug-related crime, possibly that the girls stumbled upon something, or that the perp(s) was in some way retaliating for something. BG is probably not the land owner, however IMOO the landowner is involved somehow.

You know I've been wondering where people got this theory from because honestly I don't think there's any evidence to point that way BUT... I just had this thought reading your post.... just a completely random theory and I almost feel bad sharing it because I don't want to imply anything whatsoever about RL... but, let's say you're onto something about drug deal gone wrong that the girls stumbled upon. Maybe RL was buying from BG and something happened here, the girls saw them and eh maybe RL hasn't been paying or who knows what (heck maybe the reverse is even true that RL was selling.) anyway wouldn't it be interesting retaliation (for whatever reason. Maybe not drugs at all) against RL to dump the bodies on his land?

There's no proof whatsoever of drugs being involved so again, I'm just racing off with a theory but drugs or not, wouldn't that be interesting if perhaps RL does know BG in some way and BG tried to frame RL? (Maybe that's even why RL spoke out so much too, to try and prove his innocence.) 100% speculation and my mind running off with me but just curious if anyone else who thinks drug deal gone wrong has explored this idea or if that's perhaps the whole reason why?

Actually can I ask that too- why do you and others think drug deal so strongly? What's leading your thoughts in that direction?


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[SouthernCutie]

There's a billboard on I-65 North bound near the TN/KY line that prominently features BG also FWIW.....IMO if they thought R.L. was BG they would not still have these billboards on display as he's been in custody since March. Would be a huge waste and TN is hunting it's own most wanted since the teacher took his student Tad Cummings also not BG IMO as he was busy grooming his victim

💘 💘Love always wins 💘 💘

 

[bluesneakers]

i can't imagine the girls were victims of a "snuff" film. i just can't see that as a viable possibility...but that's me.

Same here.

 

[MistyWaters]

But nobody here is testifying. We're not in a court of law here. We're just people online getting together to talk about a horrific crime and bounce ideas off of each other.

Also, I 2nd ninji9's thoughts. Most of us aren't here to prove something to a bunch of strangers on the Internet. Most of us couldn't give a rat's behind if we are right or wrong. We just want the perp(s) to pay and pay huge for committing such an atrocious and evil crime upon these 2 innocents.

Excellent post, JLSChook! Sometimes I also wonder if some people might incorrectly assume that if enough of us believe RL to be guilty, we have the power to influence LE in filing charges against him. Sort of like a social yay or nay.

I'd like to be mistaken.

 

[SouthernCutie]

This was my question (although I do appreciate all replies). I was wondering more along the lines of who would be familiar with the area and I've noticed there seems to be a lot of morel enthusiasts in Indiana. Both morels and ginseng can be quite lucrative.

This is what I found:
Snipped more at link
The purpose of Indiana’s ginseng program (Public Law 107 (IC 14-4-8) and Ginseng Rule (312 IAC 19) is to insure a healthy population for the future.
Sept. 1 of current year to March 31 of next year. Dealers can legally purchase ginseng from harvesters.*
Sept. 1 - Dec 31 of current year.*Harvesters can legally dig wild ginseng.*
http://www.in.gov/dnr/naturepreserve/8235.htm
FWIW Holly Bobo was found by ginseng hunters and this is only what's allowed legally I'm not familiar with it would have been ready to harvest illegally or not MOO

💘 💘Love always wins 💘 💘

 

[otto]

You know I've been wondering where people got this theory from because honestly I don't think there's any evidence to point that way BUT... I just had this thought reading your post.... just a completely random theory and I almost feel bad sharing it because I don't want to imply anything whatsoever about RL... but, let's say you're onto something about drug deal gone wrong that the girls stumbled upon. Maybe RL was buying from BG and something happened here, the girls saw them and eh maybe RL hasn't been paying or who knows what (heck maybe the reverse is even true that RL was selling.) anyway wouldn't it be interesting retaliation (for whatever reason. Maybe not drugs at all) against RL to dump the bodies on his land?

There's no proof whatsoever of drugs being involved so again, I'm just racing off with a theory but drugs or not, wouldn't that be interesting if perhaps RL does know BG in some way and BG tried to frame RL? (Maybe that's even why RL spoke out so much too, to try and prove his innocence.) 100% speculation and my mind running off with me but just curious if anyone else who thinks drug deal gone wrong has explored this idea or if that's perhaps the whole reason why?

Actually can I ask that too- why do you and others think drug deal so strongly? What's leading your thoughts in that direction?

I think we should leave the "drug theory" alone. This isn't the first murdered child where out of the blue the discussion is all about meth addicts, drug deals, and so much more that is in no way connected to the murdered children. It's a theme that people want to inject into missing children for whatever odd reason, but it has yet to be true in any case that I've followed on this forum.

This is about a man who cornered two children in a rural park, herded them to a secluded location, very likely sexually assaulted one, murdered her, then the other, then murdered her. Then he left the area. That's all we know.

 

[websleuthin]

You are welcome. I like going back and watching it again...gives me hope they will solve this.They seem very determind.Unless he's reaching into his jeans pocket perhaps..maybe touching himself? I know growing up when guys would have they're hands in they're pockets,they would be accused of playing "pocket pool",as in touching themselves...just a thought.He could be holding a gun as well..its just so hard to tell...

I hadn't seen that before, thanks for sharing! Maybe his right hand is up inside his jacket, but on top of his brown shirt. Can't think of any other reason to do such a thing other than trying to hide something in his hand. To me, it looks like he is holding a gun under his jacket and what people thought was the butt of the gun in his pocket is actually the end of the barrel and above it is the flap on the top of the pockets in his jacket like typical pockets of "utility" clothes. JMO


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[Willow Knight]

Is there a thread or can you direct me to where I can read more on this? I promise I do try to research and find things on my own, however I'm missing this discussion. Thanks so much.

RSBM

I personally think the silence of LE is a good sign.

Even though RL does not look like the BG... let's look at this from a distance.

2) The land owner lied to authorities as to his whereabouts at the time of the murders.

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

WADR, if you look online, there is definitely often a link between child exploitation, child *advertiser censored*, etc, and meth.There is also a well-documented meth problem in the area, including cartel involvement within 50-75 miles of the town. I don't believe for an instant that these girls were directly involved in drugs, but considering a drug connection to this crime, IMO, is no different than considering there was a sexual element. JMO

I think we should leave the "drug theory" alone. This isn't the first murdered child where out of the blue the discussion is all about meth addicts, drug deals, and so much more that is in no way connected to the murdered children. It's a theme that people want to inject into missing children for whatever odd reason, but it has yet to be true in any case that I've followed on this forum.

This is about a man who cornered two children in a rural park, herded them to a secluded location, very likely sexually assaulted one, murdered her, then the other, then murdered her. Then he left the area. That's all we know.

 

[Aropizt]

In the original press conderence,Doug Carter refers to his shirt tail. They don't mention a fanny pack at all. So i'm going with that as being his shirt.In my opinion... [video=youtube;mZcHfgbOcKo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZcHfgbOcKo[/video]

If that is his shirt tail though, what exactly is he doing with his right hand then? I mean it's pretty obvious we can't see most of his hand, that it's concealed... (and there's so very little that's clear in this photo at all but this definitely stands out to me and I'm one of the folks who doesn't see much at all in the photos)

So I don't know. I mean LE is probably right because they've seen the entire video but then what the heck is BG doing with his hand?


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[FrostedGlass]

i can't imagine the girls were victims of a "snuff" film. i just can't see that as a viable possibility...but that's me.

I sure didn't mean to imply I thought they were; I was just answering someone's question That never entered my mind.

All I'm saying is yes, people do put bad stuff up on the net. One Lunatic, One Ice Pick (Luka Rocco Magnotta) ended up over on the Best Gore site and a number of others.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Hi everyone. This only my second post on the site. (Apologies for not properly introducing myself on the first one; I forgot my manners.) I hope I'm doing everything correctly this time around. Please correct me if I screw up anything.

Piggybacking a bit off @NightOwl77's post (snipped below), the magnitude of this case and what law enforcement is facing really hit me as I poked around online and really thought about NightOwl77's post. I can't stop thinking about it, in fact.

I am not trying to name any suspects or possible suspects. I'm not making any claims as to where any potential suspect might live or work, or even whether or not BG is a legit suspect. I'm also not suggesting any potential suspect is or isn't a SO.

I want to make that clear up front.

My point, which *is* related to this case, imo, is that *potential* suspects seem to be literally everywhere!

I've read a whole lot on these threads about SOs. So, even *if* the first priority of police was to "weed out" any SOs in the area, which, imo, would probably be a standard LE practice, they certainly have their work cut out for themselves. This is just food for thought re: how hard police are working, that they have a huge and important job to do, and it's very important to everyone that they find justice.

Again, I'm not asserting that any potential suspect in this case lives or works in Delphi, either.

Wanted to say all that before I share this link I used to pull up a list of registered SOs in and around Delphi. AGAIN, I'm not suggesting LE has even hinted that their suspect might be an SO. If police rule out suspects by starting at the crime scene and working their way outward as they rule things out, NightOwl77's map and this link prove there's a staggering amount of information for LE to digest. MOO. Because we *can* all agree that police have FAR MORE to work through than our WebSleuths map and this link.

It's just dizzying. Praying for a resolution soon, for the families of Libby and Abby, and for the LE officers and their families, and for the Delphi community.

http://www.sexoffendersbystate.com/indiana/Delphi/page/1

Thanks for being here, websleuthers. Hope I didn't screw up too bad with my first real post. <3

A car that was waiting @ end of bridge seems much more plausible for a quick get away and for SA, then later bring them back later once crime had been committed. I searched for sex offenders based off RL's address, which comes up in a simple google search if you search for him by his full name (RL) Delphi, IN.

I am not naming any sex offenders since the post said we needed to email or message about them if we want to mention them but I will put the site up for others to search and for anyone to draw their own conclusions:

http://www.sheriffalerts.com/cap_main.php?office=54816

I will say the site gives you pictures of the offender's faces, height and weight, and it gives the address of where they work if you click the work address box.

The top red circle is where the girls were found (whether the crime was committed there is not definitive). The road that passes under the bridge is down the hill from where the bridge terminates on that side. It is a dead end road and I doubt highly traveled other than to the Transfer Station, and so any car/truck/van leaving that area most folks would probably assume was at the dump. The 2nd red circle below that is where the road that passes under the bridge terminates. The road is traced in black. Arrows shows where it leads in both ways to town and to the end of the road.