IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #43

[Billy Mabou]

Thank you! IDK, if LE didn't fix it, maybe they don't think it was important? BillyMaboo felt like they wanted us to concentrate on the overall picture? :thinking:

Just for the record, I wasn't judging its importance, but was only speculating on why LE didn't adjust it!

I think Lilibet's comments a few posts back (#467) are excellent (LE may not have even known how to fix it and/or are hesitant to tamper with potential evidence)

 

[Rott Mom]

I'm looking for the post that I want to respond to, but, I'm lost.

When LE held their press conference, just like in the billboards, Abby & Libby's photos were more prominent than BG - IMO.

 

[whiskers]

What will April 3 tell us concerning RL? That he has to stay in jail because of probation violations? Will they reveal if he's charged in this crime?

What I'm asking is when will we know if RL is in the can because of drinking or if he's connected to this crime?

 

[No it's not]

So the photos have been tampered with by LE. IMO But I have my doubts that the photo of BG was even taken on the bridge.Has anyone else thought of that?That would be huge.I see what others see in the pics.But I don't think they are .5 seconds apart.Some people thinks he is holding a cig in his mouth,I don't.What I see is his extended right hand holding the cig close to his waist and when I messed with the hues or whatever you call them,I can see the smoke trail from the cig in his hand.Whats coming from his mouth is from exhaling.I also saw in the other pic what he was holding in his right hand but it wasnt his smoke.I know others see it as they have hinted to it.As I said in my first post here I believed he was wearing a cap with a rolled bill.That being said I thought this guy might be mid 20's to 30's.So I did some checkin on the RSO from the area.I just looked at the photos but didn't dig into any backgrounds cuz I don't think we're suppose to but since we are supposed to be looking at the photo of BG i'm sure we can compare?Anyways my choice looks interesting just based on looks IMO http://www.icrimewatch.net/offenderdetails.php?OfndrID=1872400&AgencyID=54832 Also I no longer believe it was a fanny pack or anything other than a manipulation of his right hand by LE to get the pic out.

I would not say the photos were neccessarily tampered with. We are looking at 2 video frames, possibly cropped and enlarged. In addition, if you estimate the movements necessary to transfer the individual from position A to position B, you may get to approximately 0.5 seconds. That's my estimation.

Now, the frames look a bit different from each other and LE said that's the best they have. I am going to add "for now". IMO they were in a hurry getting the images out.
Here is why: Certain algorithms are being used to encode a video. Every 0.5 seconds or so a so called 'key frame" is being inserted into the stream. A key frame has all its pixels recreated/transferred in the encoded stream while still showing some loss of quality due to compression. The not so good frames simply do not have all their pixels recreated/transferred esp. if the bit rate is too low. So, adjusting the bitrate and a better algorithm for the decoding process will generate better results IMO.
I am not very adapt at working with moving images, so perhaps someone else can chime in. It looks like we do not have a key frame ( therefore the two frames are just under 0.5 secs apart ) or we do have a key frame, but due to additional movements -like shaking the camera for example- the frame lost quality ( therefore the two frames would be just about 0.5 secs apart). Something like that.

All IMO

-Nin

 

[her]

It's a very slippery slope altering the police photo, imo. Dangerous

 

[No it's not]

My guess is this area is very soft because of compression (detail is thrown out by the camera's encoder to reduce file size). The picture had probably been brightened quite a bit from the original and my guess is these areas are darker from shadows.

It's common for highly compressed video to lack details on dark areas because most people won't notice (unless the image is brightened).

Or, maybe the video was very low resolution to begin with. Low resolution, along with enlarging, along with brightening would unveil a lot of very ugly artifacts. Judging by the overall quality of the photo, I think that is the most likely scenario. IMO.

Exactly! And yours is easier to understand..;--)

-Nin

 

[lilscarletdiva]

My theory is he had limited time, and is not very skilled yet at his killing ventures. Also needed to leave the area ASAP so as to avoid capture/suspicion. Also, this is a very public place, where he can likely return without rousing suspicion when he wants to revisit

 

[expatCanada]

An arrest warrant was issued 3/10 for probation violation. He has a hearing tomorrow at 3:00 pm on those charges, IF there isn't another continuance requested. IF no continuance, then the Judge will decide how to punish him. Either off to prison or add more time to his probation plus other hardships. JMO.

What will April 3 tell us concerning RL? That he has to stay in jail because of probation violations? Will they reveal if he's charged in this crime?

What I'm asking is when will we know if RL is in the can because of drinking or if he's connected to this crime?

 

[Brian119]

The photo of BG is so blurry I think it could be a Kardashian and we would not recognize the person!
Also, the photos apoear to have been altered in some way.
Investigators seemed to think that someone who knows him would recognize him even though the photos are poor..
So is it possible something other than the face is what they think someone would recognize if they know him?
I am thinking that if there was some sort of signature or similarity to other crimes could something bg is wearing be connected to that. Hence the billboards.

Somewhat new to the forum and this case. I'm still reading through all the posts.

I'm work in video/photo post production for a living. A couple things with the BG pic. It is absolutely modified from its raw file. The blurry parts are a result of what we call 'cloning'. It is a tool that is used to essentially clone from another part of the picture to cover something up in another part. I'm surprised.. because it is a horrible job for such a high profile case. It can be done and not be noticed at all. I'm guessing they put the trees back in to cover either a finger or coat that was over the lens.

I have no idea what they cloned out of the bottom right of the frame.

The poster who adjusted the top right of BG's head..had the right idea and did a nice job for a first attempt. Probably better than LE's photo manipulation!

There is also a pixelated section on BG's right foot that doesn't match the resolution of the rest of the picture. It was added in or taken from another frame of video and over-sharpened.

The shadow on BG's right leg is wrong. It doesn't follow the angle of light and the 'light falloff' is way off. That was adjusted for some reason also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bemused]

Somewhat new to the forum and this case. I'm still reading through all the posts.

I'm work in video/photo post production for a living. A couple things with the BG pic. It is absolutely modified from its raw file. The blurry parts are a result of what we call 'cloning'. It is a tool that is used to essentially clone from another part of the picture to cover something up in another part. I'm surprised.. because it is a horrible job for such a high profile case. It can be done and not be noticed at all. I'm guessing they put the trees back in to cover either a finger or coat that was over the lens.

I have no idea what they cloned out of the bottom right of the frame.

The poster who adjusted the top right of BG's head..had the right idea and did a nice job for a first attempt. Probably better than LE's photo manipulation!

There is also a pixelated section on BG's right foot that doesn't match the resolution of the rest of the picture. It was added in or taken from another frame of video and over-sharpened.

The shadow on BG's right leg is wrong. It doesn't follow the angle of light and the 'light falloff' is way off. That was adjusted for some reason also.


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Thank you. I thought the shadows were off. Do you have an opinion if BG was inserted to make it appear he was on the bridge? The feet/shoes look a bit off to me. TIA

 

[lilscarletdiva]

I can't find that pic just now, but a truck might be too obvious a tell. The packing company is walking distance from where our young ladies were hiking, and I know how those places like to make the drivers wait. he doesn't appear to be wearing gloves (an unplanned hike, not prepared for cold), definitely wearing casual clothing, not an experienced or passionate hiker. a little afraid of heights too... he's watching where his feet go.

 

[Billy Mabou]

Yes you're exactly right! Many consumer cameras use what's called Long-GOP compression for video. GOP = Group of Frames. One frame in a sequence will be the keyframe, which is a full and complete frame. Another keframe might not arrive until maybe 10 frames later. All the frames in between are estimated and interpolated. This in-between frames can display all sorts of interpolation errors. I've seen people with three eyes, for example, but only on a single frame.

I hope I'm not boring everyone to death, lol.

I would not say the photos were neccessarily tampered with. We are looking at 2 video frames, possibly cropped and enlarged. In addition, if you estimate the movements necessary to transfer the individual from position A to position B, you may get to approximately 0.5 seconds. That's my estimation.

Now, the frames look a bit different from each other and LE said that's the best they have. I am going to add "for now". IMO they were in a hurry getting the images out.
Here is why: Certain algorithms are being used to encode a video. Every 0.5 seconds or so a so called 'key frame" is being inserted into the stream. A key frame has all its pixels recreated/transferred in the encoded stream while still showing some loss of quality due to compression. The not so good frames simply do not have all their pixels recreated/transferred esp. if the bit rate is too low. So, adjusting the bitrate and a better algorithm for the decoding process will generate better results IMO.
I am not very adapt at working with moving images, so perhaps someone else can chime in. It looks like we do not have a key frame ( therefore the two frames are just under 0.5 secs apart ) or we do have a key frame, but due to additional movements -like shaking the camera for example- the frame lost quality ( therefore the two frames would be just about 0.5 secs apart). Something like that.

All IMO

-Nin

 

[whiskers]

An arrest warrant was issued 3/10 for probation violation. He has a hearing tomorrow at 3:00 pm on those charges, IF there isn't another continuance requested. IF no continuance, then the Judge will decide how to punish him. Either off to prison or add more time to his probation plus other hardships. JMO.

Thank you. So if he's connected to this crime in any way, will that be brought up tomorrow?

 

[Madhom]

Somewhat new to the forum and this case. I'm still reading through all the posts.

I'm work in video/photo post production for a living. A couple things with the BG pic. It is absolutely modified from its raw file. The blurry parts are a result of what we call 'cloning'. It is a tool that is used to essentially clone from another part of the picture to cover something up in another part. I'm surprised.. because it is a horrible job for such a high profile case. It can be done and not be noticed at all. I'm guessing they put the trees back in to cover either a finger or coat that was over the lens.

I have no idea what they cloned out of the bottom right of the frame.

The poster who adjusted the top right of BG's head..had the right idea and did a nice job for a first attempt. Probably better than LE's photo manipulation!

There is also a pixelated section on BG's right foot that doesn't match the resolution of the rest of the picture. It was added in or taken from another frame of video and over-sharpened.

The shadow on BG's right leg is wrong. It doesn't follow the angle of light and the 'light falloff' is way off. That was adjusted for some reason also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great input. I have believed that when Libby was taking the video the stills were taken from, her phone was upside down in her hand, facing backwards and she was trying to film him closing on them without his knowledge. Would a swinging arm cause any of these issues? Or since he may have still been some distance behind them, what about attempting to zoom while filming? Thanks

 

[Mainemom76]

Thank you. So if he's connected to this crime in any way, will that be brought up tomorrow?

I have a bad feeling there will be another continuance and we will learn nothing. JMO

 

[GhostGhost]

.

Everyone sees something different in that photo.

We've had numerous people seeing puppies and someone saw a snake.
I know of another case where stIlls from ATM footage were very misleading.

I don't see a bill (a hat bill), or one of normal size in that photo, however, I am aware these types of photos can be a losing proposition.


-

 

[Madhom]

Yes you're exactly right! Many consumer cameras use what's called Long-GOP compression for video. GOP = Group of Frames. One frame in a sequence will be the keyframe, which is a full and complete frame. Another keframe might not arrive until maybe 10 frames later. All the frames in between are estimated and interpolated. This in-between frames can display all sorts of interpolation errors. I've seen people with three eyes, for example, but only on a single frame.

I hope I'm not boring everyone to death, lol.

Not boring at all, fascinating stuff and thanks. Same to NIN

 

[expatCanada]

Doubt it. It's not about the murders, it's about his probation violation.

Thank you. So if he's connected to this crime in any way, will that be brought up tomorrow?

 

[No it's not]

Somewhat new to the forum and this case. I'm still reading through all the posts.

I'm work in video/photo post production for a living. A couple things with the BG pic. It is absolutely modified from its raw file. The blurry parts are a result of what we call 'cloning'. It is a tool that is used to essentially clone from another part of the picture to cover something up in another part. I'm surprised.. because it is a horrible job for such a high profile case. It can be done and not be noticed at all. I'm guessing they put the trees back in to cover either a finger or coat that was over the lens.

I have no idea what they cloned out of the bottom right of the frame.

The poster who adjusted the top right of BG's head..had the right idea and did a nice job for a first attempt. Probably better than LE's photo manipulation!

There is also a pixelated section on BG's right foot that doesn't match the resolution of the rest of the picture. It was added in or taken from another frame of video and over-sharpened.

The shadow on BG's right leg is wrong. It doesn't follow the angle of light and the 'light falloff' is way off. That was adjusted for some reason also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Welcome! I am familiar with the cloning process and am wondering why the A area would be showing signs of cloning? I can see the cloning happening in the areas of B,C and D possibly due to other individuals being eliminated from the picture ( what a bad job that would be!), but I cannot explain the top A area to have been cloned. I also could not find duplicated areas (due to a less dynamic cloning procedure matching the allover bad cloning quality, if applicable). Unless they would create cloudiness to better clone it? Can't believe they would do such a crappy job. This is the FBI in the end..just saying.

All IMO

-Nin

 

[lilscarletdiva]

Is it just me, or is there clearly something off with one of his legs? almost as if (if it were a video) he has an injured or disfigured leg that would cause a limp or an awkward gait?