Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #14

[petedavo.au]

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...t/news-story/e23712e522d6089e1ad6b03a0ccdd3ed

http://www.outinperth.com/drink-spiking-in-northbridge/

http://www.drinksafetech.com.au/pages/mediacontent/sundaytimes021201.html

https://aifs.gov.au/publications/beyond-drink-spiking/australian-data-sources-prevalence


http://www.abc.net.au/stateline/wa/content/2006/s1904338.htm

It's estimated 10 people fall victim to drink spiking in Australia every day. Yet slipping a drug into someone's drink isn't an offence in Western Australia unless the victim is also assaulted, robbed or police can prove the offender's motives. To address the problem the states and territories have agreed to uniform laws to close all loopholes in this area. It's a move welcomed by a Perth victim who was drugged by her own husband. Tonight she speaks of her ordeal. Elvira Nuic reports.

https://intranet.ecu.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/20723/Drink-spiking.pdf

 

[JoWa]

I can't open anything "perthnow" on my phone so please indulge me. Police "investigating" possible drink spiking. What was the outcome of the investigation? News stories as opposed to actual research studies fail to sway me . I have not seen ONE young woman's claim of drink spiking substantiated in 30 years. But hey, I will hear it all again next weekend.......

Drinks can be spiked with alcohol, not just drugs. But hey as long as it's not you being raped and waking up in a strange place, we will just assume the victims are drunk *advertiser censored*.
I have never been a victim of this, but if I had and read this... you should be careful how you word things, victim blaming is pretty low. No matter how those women end up in that situation, they deserve a better attitude than 'you drank too much, it was your fault you ended up like this'. I would also like to remind you it is illegal to have sex with an intoxicated person who can't give consent, regardless of how they became intoxicated.


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[petedavo.au]

PS; Only positive toxicological results from the pathology tests on the two recovered victims can rule in some sort of stupefying substance. However, a negative result doesn't rule something like GBH out, because it's extremely hard to detect. If the presence of GBL on the clothesline was found, then maybe the building on Government Rd was being used as a CLAN Lab
I'd be interested to know if the compound PMA para-Methoxyamphetamine

was found. It's the usual fatal toxic compound found in botched Ecstasy tablets made in CLAN Labs

 

[7SJ707]

In the late eighties, and early nineties, a lot of problems were being experienced by Government Agencies with the employment of "Bouncers" in Western Australias Nightclub and Hotel Industries.
The selection criteria for canditates consisted mainly of being young, tall, well built and capable of handling yourself in a brawl.
All sorts of ****s , and petty criminals were being employed as bouncers, often under false names( so they could also claim the dole , avoid tax /child payments or not have to notify their full time day- job employers. )
Perths most fearsome bouncing team "Bird" (dec.) and "Joey" were in fact two very violent Eastern States criminals who were flown over by organised crime elements of the industry because their lenghty records precluded them from working in the Eastern States but they could work as doormen in WA as unknown "cleanskins".
The screening of patrons at the Nightclub" door" was considered an
oppurtunity for a perv, to peddle drugs. to meet and curry favour with often inebriated young women( waiving admission charges) and to give defenceless male drunks a vicious hiding with the full backing of Hotel Management and little chance of prosecution -the Clubs controlled the CCTV footage and mobile phones with cameras were non existent.
In 1996 the same year the Claremont abductions commenced, as an effort to counter these problems within the Nightclub fraternity the "Security and Related Activities Control Act 1996 " legislation was passed.
It made the security providers and the individual "crowd controllers" as they were now referred to, instantly accountable and identifiable, and resulted in huge changes,- effectively barring those with" something to hide" in their past from being employed.
A lot of criminals and ****s, unable or UNWILLING to be licenced effectively lost or quit their jobs immediately.
Police licencing Services were now in charge , applicants for a "crowd controller" licence had to prove they were" fit and proper" persons, provide 100 points of identication and MOST interestingly, among other requirements could be requested to provide both fingerprints and palm prints to Police.
I have read unsubstantiated past posts on this forum indicating that around the time of the Claremont Abductions and possibly due to the passing of the Control Act, the existing" Security" providers for Club Bay View had lost the contract and a new firm had taken over ,-it was a time of major change at licenced venues all across Perth.

 

[7SJ707]

Circa 1996. to prove admission had been paid into Perths nightclubs. and to pass in and out of the establishment afterwards, a coloured ink "Stamp'' , often a small image or design, was inked onto the left wrist of punters just below the palm, and checked by the Bouncers when seeking entry or re-entry to the premises. (It was known as "stamping " or" getting stamped")
Is this what Mystery Man asks JR to" check" on his inner wrist, and gets a laugh out of her, in the grainy CCTV footage taken outside the Nightclub just before she was abducted.?
Had he, in the past, working as a bouncer, had cause to check her "stamp".?.....???

 

[petedavo.au]

In case anyone is wondering about what I mean about Government Rd.
I'm talking about the building at #60 that was supposed to be empty for a couple of decades before it was sold or leased to a monumental works.

 

[Canning Vale]

Circa 1996. to prove admission had been paid into Perths nightclubs. and to pass in and out of the establishment afterwards, a coloured ink "Stamp'' , often a small image or design, was inked onto the left wrist of punters just below the palm, and checked by the Bouncers when seeking entry or re-entry to the premises. (It was known as "stamping " or" getting stamped")
Is this what Mystery Man asks JR to" check" on his inner wrist, and gets a laugh out of her, in the grainy CCTV footage taken outside the Nightclub just before she was abducted.?
Had he, in the past, working as a bouncer, had cause to check her "stamp".?.....???

7SJ707,
Thank you for the post. Regarding the possibility of the mystery man asking JR about the stamp.... That scenario makes sense, because she did laugh. Perhaps, he then asked her if she was right for a lift home. It was a quick conversation, and he did purposely approach her as she was waiting to leave.

After the accused CSKs image was released (Dec 2016) I would think many people have contacted Crime Stoppers to let them know, if he'd worked somewhere part-time and informed them of establishments he'd socialized at. I suppose they'd have all that information in a timeline format, which will be huge.

These are only my thoughts and opinions. No need for links.

 

[Canning Vale]

In case anyone is wondering about what I mean about Government Rd.
I'm talking about the building at #60 that was supposed to be empty for a couple of decades before it was sold or leased to a monumental works.

Initially the police didn't seem to be interested. They should be able to identify the handwriting and fingerprints on the pages. Interesting that a vehicle was driven into the property, which avoids detection.

Also, I noticed the telephone exchange on Gay St has double doors that can be opened wide enough to drive into.

These are only my thoughts and opinions. No need for any reference links.

 

[justified]

JoWa, educate yourself & do not make claims about what I did not say. Do some proper research on the matter and follow your own advice about how you say things. Ignorance changes nothing.

 

[justified]

Liking the background info 7SJ & thinking outside the box.

 

[Innerchild]

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...t/news-story/e23712e522d6089e1ad6b03a0ccdd3ed

http://www.outinperth.com/drink-spiking-in-northbridge/

http://www.drinksafetech.com.au/pages/mediacontent/sundaytimes021201.html

https://aifs.gov.au/publications/beyond-drink-spiking/australian-data-sources-prevalence


http://www.abc.net.au/stateline/wa/content/2006/s1904338.htm


https://intranet.ecu.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/20723/Drink-spiking.pdf

Thanks Pete Davo for sourcing these studies and reports on drink spiking. The research study on over 2000 (Slaughter 2000) specimens showing GHB in 5.4% and Rohypinol 0.5% and 1,179 specimens (Elsohy and Salomone 1999) showing 12% of drink spiking should be a large enough sample size even though American, to show that drink spiking is a problem. The other article quoted Quigley the emergency medicine and toxicology specialist indicating there could be 15 incidents a week (Dec 1, 2002), five to six times the amount reported to police. This is only an expert's opinion, but police also reported cases to them as being 135 compared to 66 in the previous year (Dec 1, 2002). Reports also indicate the difficulty of detection of the drugs especially after 12 hours.
Justified, I think this constitutes educating yourself, re your comment to JoWA. I would like to see the study you quote and look at the sample size, detection methods and time after reporting the testing was done, to compare results. Also you seem to totally dismiss first hand accounts especially when no name may not have known what happened in the first instance but after happening again to 4 people at the same time, I don't think it can be flippantly dismissed.

 

[7SJ707]

Liking the background info 7SJ & thinking outside the box.

Thank you. Amazing that one cant say t hu g on Webslueths without getting a ****.
I might add to my previous post that another interesting by product of a bouncers job at a particular Club or Hotel was that once they had worked there for a few weeks they almost ineviatably KNEW by sight and perhaps first name, every uniform and plainclothes copper in the local area. The reason?- Cops only had to flash "Freddy" (identification Badge)at the door and they were let straight in at no cost to all nightclubs in the Perth Metropolitan area.
Uniform police in the area also often needed asssistance to identify offenders for minor street offences they were called to outside the venues, ( fighting ,smashing signs or cars,urinating) etc. etc. so in an area like Claremont the regular bouncers knew all the local Cops, and vice versa.
So a known crowd controller or "security person" cruising around his employment area in a car would hardly get a second glance from local Police and a have a perfectly good reason for doing so,- even if questioned- "just going to work or on the way home from work of course."
However the alibi would not work if a Claremont bouncer was found cruising the streets of Subiaco or Leederville and questioned by unfamiliar officers.
All just my opinion and theory.

 

[Innerchild]

QUOTE=justified;13402999]JoWa, educate yourself & do not make claims about what I did not say. Do some proper research on the matter and follow your own advice about how you say things. Ignorance changes nothing.[/QUOTE]

justified

I can't open anything "perthnow" on my phone so please indulge me. Police "investigating" possible drink spiking. What was the outcome of the investigation? News stories as opposed to actual research studies fail to sway me . I have not seen ONE young woman's claim of drink spiking substantiated in 30 years. But hey, I will hear it all again next weekend.......​

JoWA: Drinks can be spiked with alcohol, not just drugs. But hey as long as it's not you being raped and waking up in a strange place, we will just assume the victims are drunk *advertiser censored*.
I have never been a victim of this, but if I had and read this... you should be careful how you word things, victim blaming is pretty low. No matter how those women end up in that situation, they deserve a better attitude than 'you drank too much, it was your fault you ended up like this'. I would also like to remind you it is illegal to have sex with an intoxicated person who can't give consent, regardless of how they became intoxicated.

It reads to me as victim blaming as well, Justified. Timely reminder from JoWA above and I'll add whether the perpetrator is intoxicated or not.

 

[Innerchild]

Interesting information 707. Could the member tap dancing bear add any information? Did I read correctly that he worked security when the discussion was on the security camera quality from the Conti of JR?

In the late eighties, and early nineties, a lot of problems were being experienced by Government Agencies with the employment of "Bouncers" in Western Australias Nightclub and Hotel Industries.
The selection criteria for canditates consisted mainly of being young, tall, well built and capable of handling yourself in a brawl.
All sorts of ****s , and petty criminals were being employed as bouncers, often under false names( so they could also claim the dole , avoid tax /child payments or not have to notify their full time day- job employers. )
Perths most fearsome bouncing team "Bird" (dec.) and "Joey" were in fact two very violent Eastern States criminals who were flown over by organised crime elements of the industry because their lenghty records precluded them from working in the Eastern States but they could work as doormen in WA as unknown "cleanskins".
The screening of patrons at the Nightclub" door" was considered an
oppurtunity for a perv, to peddle drugs. to meet and curry favour with often inebriated young women( waiving admission charges) and to give defenceless male drunks a vicious hiding with the full backing of Hotel Management and little chance of prosecution -the Clubs controlled the CCTV footage and mobile phones with cameras were non existent.
In 1996 the same year the Claremont abductions commenced, as an effort to counter these problems within the Nightclub fraternity the "Security and Related Activities Control Act 1996 " legislation was passed.
It made the security providers and the individual "crowd controllers" as they were now referred to, instantly accountable and identifiable, and resulted in huge changes,- effectively barring those with" something to hide" in their past from being employed.
A lot of criminals and ****s, unable or UNWILLING to be licenced effectively lost or quit their jobs immediately.
Police licencing Services were now in charge , applicants for a "crowd controller" licence had to prove they were" fit and proper" persons, provide 100 points of identication and MOST interestingly, among other requirements could be requested to provide both fingerprints and palm prints to Police.
I have read unsubstantiated past posts on this forum indicating that around the time of the Claremont Abductions and possibly due to the passing of the Control Act, the existing" Security" providers for Club Bay View had lost the contract and a new firm had taken over ,-it was a time of major change at licenced venues all across Perth.

 

[Sutton]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Innerchild]

Sorry for going out of order as I'trying to catch up after being offline for a while. Thanks JoWa for finding this thesis, some more light reading for me! Point taken about no rescues at Cott if the beach is closed. However, now I think JC's disappearance is getting the attention she deserves with expert met, thesis on rip currents in the lee of coastal structures and although I'm not claiming to be an expert, a forensic physics analysis. In the meantime when discussing rips at Cott, please use this image from currents found in the Olsson (2004) thesis, on the current direction, which IMO are more accurate than generalised rip diagrams.

Olsson (2004) ...Spatial patterns indicate a longshore current is directed towards the structure, generating a rip current along the face of the groyne as it is deflected offshore... Eulerian measurements from Cottesloe Beach support the Lagrangian spatial patterns, with 55% of the currents along the lee side of the groyne directed offshore, reaching a maximum of 2ms-1...

Meticulously said "there is a high rip current potential due to the shape of cott beach and groyne... Pictures here show that cottesloe beach is highly likely to be prone to currents during swell events, especially due to the groyne and curve of shoreline.
i think the rip current would flow out between the groyne and the pylon as ive marked with arrows"
He was not claiming those were the exact markings of a rip, just his thoughts on how it might be given the shape and groyne.

A simple google search has found rescues from a rip at Cottesloe, although I imagine they usually close the beach when there are rips, thus resulting in no rescues. In any case this article says 20 people got dragged out in a rip off Cottesloe.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2006-10-21/perth-beach-closed-after-rip-snares-20/1291446

And this guy did a study of rips off Cottesloe.

"Plots of velocity vectors clearly show the direction of flow, with a clockwise circulation in the lee of the groyne that establishes an offshore directed flow along the face of the structure. This offshore flow is constrained to within approximately 10 m of the edge of the groyne."

"The rip current generated along the groyne is unlike classical rip currents in that there is no head region to the flow. Instead, the seaward extent of this rip is marked by a significant turn in the current northwards. This turn is clearly defined and is also rather dramatic, being approximately 90°. After this change in direction, the flow then continues parallel to the shoreline moving northwards into the more exposed region of the surfzone. Drifters show that this flow then slowly turns shoreward in the exposed surf zone."

http://uwa.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/1637309/Olsson_2004.pdf




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[b4u]

I don't think it can be flippantly dismissed.

Justified's failing attempts to play down the incidence of drink spiking, and accusing most of the victims of lying, is IMO despicable, and is only setting him/herself up for some serious questioning on just what exaclty his/her agenda is.

 

[justified]

Seriously! Jows & innerchild please show me where I commented on sexual assault or sexual behaviour? I think you are feeling particularly fragile innerchild because people are tired of your delusional theories on JC car & disposal. Keep posting people, I am getting the popcorn ready!

 

[meticulously]

Great Innerchild, you figured it out without me posting 10 links for proof .

Heres an easier article , only 14 pages .
Simplified a bit from #Jowa's pdf link .

To Jowa , thanks immensely for the document. It was very supportive of the rip current theory .

city beach groyne showing effect of groyne creating rip current due to longshore currents ( inshore rips flowing along the beach )

 

[meticulously]

[quote name="meticulously" post=13394168]Re JC car mystery ; snipped-
"how the car can move around if waves are powerful enough ;
Its quite apparent to me after watching many youtube clips of cottesloe beach showing Waves, Storms and Surfers (theres many u

Innerchild ::
"Not sure if I'm replying to the correct post, but people have drawn or posted accurate rip diagrams and painted them on Cott beach where they don't occur resulting in inaccurate and incorrect info.
From firsthand experience as years of patrolling on beach there are zero rescues from rips where Trigg and Scabs get hundreds in a year.
I have asked SLSWA for info as rescues from different reasons are recorded. That is the same as saying black is white.
I am still digesting the great swell info from met to reply but again fact that lights on in car, battery forensically tested car in water night of 21st"
(unquote ) Innerchild.
------------------------------------



Rip currents at cott beach;

This is a youtube clip that i watched and identifird the rip current .

https://youtu.be/kW5Tm9CaTMo
Rip current at cottesloe beach from 40sec onwards .
Kids on boogie boards paddling out in the rip current next to the groyne.


20 people rescued from rips at cottesloe beach...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2006-10-21/perth-beach-closed-after-rip-snares-20/1291446
.

------------------------------------
Ocean currents animation begins in 1988 . on month of june you can pause it . 05 sec to ten sec mark .
it supports theory the leeuwin current was strong .
https://youtu.be/jJ8aARJobXc

Graph that indicates 1988 was la nina this the leeuwin current was anomalously strong . (Extra strong ).

------------------------------------
http://uwa.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/1637309/Olsson_2004.pdf

Quote from pdf :
"8th July 2004
A single drifter was deployed at Cottesloe during the time 12:30 to 15:00.
Total significant wave height was 1.3 m, (Table 4.1) and the tide was falling (Table 4.3). Wind direction was variable with a magnitude of approximately 5 knots.

"The drifter recirculated several times however it was
Repeatedly Washed Into The Groyne."

------------------------------------
https://www.mybeach.com.au/beach/cottesloe-beach/



https://cottsurf.com/life-saving/patrols/

Quote from link :
Patrol list:
"The patrolling season starts in October for the 2016-2017 season and goes through to the end of March. The 2016/2017 Patrol Calendar is now available*here."

Quote : "Every summer season (October to April), between our iconic red and yellow flags on beaches up and down our vast WA coastline, you can find our surf lifesavers and lifeguards."

Quote:
"frightening new research from the country’s peak lifesaving body has found 70 per cent of Australians who believe they can identify an ocean rip actually cannot."
“For all people who said they could identify a rip current, two out of three people were incorrect.
“It’s a big disconnect."

"But research by the SLSA has revealed a vast disconnect between those who believe they can identify one and those who actually can.
Mr Daw said of 1400 Australians surveyed, 70 per cent of men said they could confidently identify a rip, while 50 per cent of women said the same.
In both groups, just one in three of those people actually could."
Quote; link below.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...s/news-story/cfdc0d071a8f7cda319d5426a31bd91e
------------------------------------

Quoted from article :
" Lifesavers helped to prevent multiple tragedies at the
Perth beaches yesterday. They had their busiest day of rescues for the summer. The lifesavers
made more than 60 rescues as glorious weather brought hundreds to the beaches.
More than
half of the rescues were at Cottesloe beach.

A group of five people were sucked 200 metres out to sea. Sharon Bond, 22, was one of the
group. “We just wanted to paddle in the water. We only meant to go up to our knees, then all of
a sudden we were pulled out by a very strong rip. I was terrified. I thought I was going to drown.”
A beach-goer noticed that people were struggling in the water and ran down the beach to alert
the lifesavers. The lifesavers swam out and saved the group. Some off-duty lifesavers also helped
to bring them ashore. One of the survivors, Julie, said she doubted she would have made it back
without the lifesavers’ help. “Every time we tried to swim to shore, the rip just took us out again.
Thank goodness for the lifesavers!”
The President of the Cottesloe Surf Life Saving Club said people should learn to recognise the
signs of rips and strong currents in the water and to avoid swimming in that area."
------------------------------------

https://youtu.be/PuAlDTC_gIQ

https://beachsafe.org.au/surf-safety/ripcurrents

These articles regarding lifesavers are summertime which is markedly different from winter re : June .
Im open to suggestion about what actual night the car went into the ocean
Would like to see the articles !
MOO

.