Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #26

[Karinna]

IMO, it's always been the 'normal' versus the other..

I looked at this pic and saw a young lady (apparently Karlie) with child on hip, walking somewhere ... Yep, cute kid over the fence ... Who's fence it is I have no idea ... Who's kid it is also for that matter, I also have no idea ... and who may be the 1/4 person to her right, I also have no idea, nor do I particularly care!

My focus is on trying to find that needle in the haystack ... The answer to the mystery that surrounds William's disappearance.

This is surely the entitlement for ALL who have ever known William, let alone those more intimately involved with him.

I feel for Karlie, bearing & losing a child - that it's with you every waking moment, some more intense than others. Caring for & then loving a child, only to lose them ... that place they occupied in your 'being' is now empty. Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles, extended family members - the width and depth of pain over the disappearance of this little boy must be so extensive.

This is not right, it's so unfair, it's absolutely unfathonable that one human being could / would inflict this upon another...

They've had plenty of opportunities to come forward, to plead their case, and make their peace - the time is up IMO and may their body Rot on an Ants Nest in the Middle of a Desert, as their Soul (to me, very essence of their being & pain threshold) spend eternity being licked by the flames of hell.

I too feel for Karlie. She has said her only crime was being young without support at the time she had her babies. It's as i thought and posted such upthread. How awful she felt so alone with no help for her predicament at the time and then be robbed of her babies. A permanent arrangement, Why?

 

[SouthAussie]

Hi deugirtni...You are 100% correct...

Cowan's sting operation did not begin UNTIL AFTER the CORONIAL INQUEST took place and it is likely it would NEVER have happened if not for the Morcombe's and their lawyer's demands for the inquest, as they were disappointed with some aspects of how the investigation was being handled by the police from the beginning.

As I've stated before on these threads, I live on the Sunshine Coast very close to where Daniel was abducted and have followed this case very closely right from the beginning since 2003.

In fact, I have posted upthread (a few pages back) that the Leading Investigator (who is now the Assisstant Commissioner) is being investigated over claims of alleged misconduct at the time of the Coronial Inquest into the murder of Daniel Morcombe.

I believe deugirtni's original comment was that Cowan was not on a police 'short list' of POIs in Daniel's case. He was. No-one is disputing the inquest shambles.

Fortunately, William's case is in NSW, and Jubelin is not at all resistant to Coronial Inquests.

This matter has already been referred to the Coroner, this happened in January 2015
The Coroner is watching the case closely. When the Coroner feels that it is time for an inquest - if/when the investigation has been exhausted - then an inquest will happen.

Coroner’s pledge on William Tyrrell

The NSW Coroner will hold an inquest into the suspected death of missing three-year-old William Tyrrell, who disappeared from his grandmother’s home on the state’s mid-north coast in September 2014.

An exchange of correspondence, seen by The Australian, confirms that “an inquest will proceed in William’s case” after it was referred to Coroner Michael Barnes for consideration in January 2015. The letters, which represent the first time such a commitment has been made public, caution that any such inquiry* will take place only after the current police investigation, which has identified hundreds of “persons of interest”, is complete.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...l/news-story/33ee25ca733a981ec54c7a091d1a7cb2

 

[SouthAussie]

Jubelin and inquests ......

BBM

Case of Matthew Leveson:

But if there’s one thing Mark and Faye Leveson and Chief Inspector Jubelin all have in common, it’s a dogged determination to never give up. Together they decided to push the envelope and lobby for a Coronial Inquest into Matt’s death. Even at this early stage, it was a controversial move as there was still only one Person of Interest in the case, Michael Atkins, and he’d already been acquitted of Matt’s murder.
https://www.9now.com.au/60-minutes/2017/extras/latest/august/inside-matthew-leveson-investigation

The NSW Deputy State Coroner Elaine Truscott has visited the site where police are searching for the body of Sydney man Matthew Leveson.
Ms Truscott spent nearly two hours at the site and was shown around the area by Detective Chief Inspector Gary Jubelin and a team from the homicide squad.
http://www.yasstribune.com.au/story...earch-site-for-body-of-matthew-leveson/?cs=12

Case of Ryan Neil Pringle:

And I have no criticism of the critical incident investigation, Detective Inspector Jubelin consulted the State Coroner about the rather unique set of circumstances, which I have to say in many years as a coroner now, I have not come across.
http://www.coroners.justice.nsw.gov.au/Documents/dic report 2013.pdf

 

[Warshawski]

I did not get the impression from what I have read in the past, that Morcombe's killer was on LE's short list of POIs. From what I read, I understood that it took a coroner's inquest to reopen LE's minds (or at least the ones in charge of the investigation) to his killer.

This is why it is disturbing to me, and possibly to some others, that LE seem to have completely discounted certain potential POIs from this case, even prior to knowing what has happened to WT.

Cowan's sting operation did not begin until after the inquest took place, and it likely would never have happened if not for that inquest. mho.


http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/03/13/sting-caught-daniels-killer

Certainly it didn't D, but perhaps it should have occurred so much earlier :

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-...eensland-ccc-take-over-police-inquiry/8886104

so many people do so much injustice to our human race ...

 

[deugirtni]

just one of the many instances of persons "acting oddly"

'Today, somebody is keeping a secret. They got up this morning. Had breakfast. Realised they need to pick up some more milk.'Wasted time on Facebook. Made some calls. All the while maintaining a poker face.All the while pretending not to know. But somebody knows what happened to three-year-old William Tyrell.
'Somebody knows if William is being treated with kindness today or with cruelty. Somebody, somewhere knows and they’re keeping it a secret. Missing from his home in Kendall , on the NSW coast, Australia since Friday, September 12. PLEASE SHARE AND HOPE HE IS FOUND.'
Five days later, on December 7, he posted another message on Facebook which marked the three months since the boy had vanished, saying 'Where is he?'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-Bill-Speddo-Spedding-came-police-radar.html

Yes, it is entirely bizarre behaviour on the part of MSM and how very often they got it wrong, many times at the expense of BS. BS was not the author of this blog entry, but yet in the article linked, he was brazenly reported to have written it. He, like hundreds of others, merely shared the post to increase awareness of the missing toddler.

 

[What's up with that?]

I agree with a lot of your thoughts here.

Could the "real reason" for the foster parents not wanting their identities made known be that they may be afraid of not being able to cope with the emotional backlash they may receive from the public and social media, because William disappeared while in THEIR care.

I have been thinking about this for a long time now and that is the only reason I can come up with for now.

No offence to anyone meant here, as it is a touchy subject and a very sad situation to be in. IMO MOO

Little William, I think of you every day, wherever you may be. *advertiser censored*

Yes that could be it.. Why have other foster parents been named in Australian cases of children missing or who have died while in foster care? What makes these people any better than those who have been named?
I think they have chosen or requested not to be named publicly. And I just don't think in my opinion, that that choice is in the best interest of William being found.

 

[deugirtni]

Operational difficulties

Cowan was always on the suspect radar in the Morcombe case. This would have been due to his proximity to the initial crime scene and his propensity for this type of offence, as illustrated by his extensive criminal record. He received special attention during the coronial inquest into Morcombe’s disappearance.

Just how far police had planned ahead is indicated by the use of the coroner’s inquest as a pretext to introduce a covert operative to Cowan. This was the beginning of a complex and long-term operation. The sting was both elaborate and convincing.

The difficulty of this operation was not only its timing but also the logistical challenges, covert resource demand and cross-jurisdictional legal concerns. In one Canadian example:

Over 50 undercover police officers were involved in [an] operation which included strippers, lap dances, two undercover police officers naked in a bed together, and a trip to British Columbia to meet ‘Mr Big’.
The covert operation used in the Morcombe case spanned all of Australia. Its achievement of a positive outcome is no small testament to the competent operational management and tenacious detectives working on the investigation.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/na...-solved-the-morcombe-case-20140317-34x2f.html

I'm a bit short on time, but looking at the top of this post.. if I'm getting it.. it seems like history is trying to be changed.. because.. I'm pretty sure it was the Morcombe boy's family who pushed and pushed and PUSHED for that inquest to happen, and the police did NOT want it to happen at all. But yet, it sounds from above, that police are now saying they were secretly using the inquest as a means to do something to catch a suspect who had, up UNTIL the inquest, been all but discounted by the CHIEF investigator on the case. "Just how far police had planned ahead is indicated by the use of the coroner’s inquest as a pretext to introduce a covert operative to Cowan. "

Personally, from all I have read on the Cowan/Morcombe case, which is definitely not everything, but lots.. I hand it all to the boy's family that this case was ever solved. Sure, the coroner was wonderful in calling for the inquest, and police did a great job setting up the killer, and that worked out great, but would it ever have happened in the first place.. and how many years out of the lives of the families did that take before they got action and were able to get closure in knowing their son's killer was finally caught.

Meanwhile, all along and right from the very beginning, they had their man, according to some of the lower ranked officers, if only minds (or at least the lead guy's mind) had been open to pursuing what made sense, to see if beliefs could possibly have had holes, instead of point blank clearing someone who appeared to not be able to fit.

It really sickens me, and I soooo hope that something similar-ish is not taking place with WT's case. With all of the secrecy in WT's case, I sure don't have a good feeling. As always, jmo. And btw, I do love GJ too, and I'm not saying that he's not trying his best.. just some things that he says, such as point blank absolving both families from anything to do with this, even though the case is not solved, leads me to believe I'm listening to a rather closed mind.

 

[What's up with that?]

WELCOME What's up with that!!!
Beaut that you are now posting.
:loveyou:

Thank you tmar😊

 

[deugirtni]

I too feel for Karlie. She has said her only crime was being young without support at the time she had her babies. It's as i thought and posted such upthread. How awful she felt so alone with no help for her predicament at the time and then be robbed of her babies. A permanent arrangement, Why?

I agree with you. However, I believe you are attributing that statement to KT, when it was actually stated by the woman from W4W who won the court and appeal with FACS. Gotta run right now, but if needed, I can find the article in a few hours.

 

[deugirtni]

I agree with a lot of your thoughts here.

Could the "real reason" for the foster parents not wanting their identities made known be that they may be afraid of not being able to cope with the emotional backlash they may receive from the public and social media, because William disappeared while in THEIR care.

I have been thinking about this for a long time now and that is the only reason I can come up with for now.

No offence to anyone meant here, as it is a touchy subject and a very sad situation to be in. IMO MOO

Little William, I think of you every day, wherever you may be. *advertiser censored*

I don't think anyone in their right mind would want their name published alllllllllll over national and international media in relation to a child under their care who disappeared into thin air. It goes without saying that nobody ever would want that for themselves.

And it is sad that sometimes when awful things happen to people, their names are ripped through the mud by the media... and suspicion is brought upon them until such time as a case is resolved. I have no doubt that it is a horrible, life-altering tragedy in itself, on TOP of their personal loss of their loved one.

But that is the society in which we live, like it or not, and that is how it is.. freedom of speech in our free world, and all of that. It seems that your media over there takes much greater liberty in thrashing someone through the mud than would ever be risked over here (due to fears of legal liabilities). (I am thinking about BS and I am quite certain I have seen nothing in my lifetime (and for good reason) like this media shitestorm which has been surrounding him for the past 3 years.)

My thoughts are, why should this family be accorded special privilege, which appears to be different from ANY other case in Aus, when they were in fact the very people with the responsibility to keep WT safe? It's okay now for the bio family, who have already LOST custody of their children, and then lost the life of one of them, to have their names dragged through the mud, but yet.. the people who were actually there, in charge, get to remain anonymous and protected by both police and media, for 3 years and counting. jmo.

 

[deugirtni]

Hi deugirtni...You are 100% correct...

Cowan's sting operation did not begin UNTIL AFTER the CORONIAL INQUEST took place and it is likely it would NEVER have happened if not for the Morcombe's and their lawyer's demands for the inquest, as they were disappointed with some aspects of how the investigation was being handled by the police from the beginning.

As I've stated before on these threads, I live on the Sunshine Coast very close to where Daniel was abducted and have followed this case very closely right from the beginning since 2003.

In fact, I have posted upthread (a few pages back) that the Leading Investigator (who is now the Assisstant Commissioner) is being investigated over claims of alleged misconduct at the time of the Coronial Inquest into the murder of Daniel Morcombe.

It amazes me how far one will go to cover one's butt. I'm pretty sure police make mistakes all the time, in fact I know they do. Usually they come to light after the fact. I always try to keep in mind that police are merely human, just like the rest of us, and when we look around us at all of the different types of people there are, there are a scattering of each and all of those types who happened to choose policing as a career. Some are incompetent, some are wholesome, some are badguys, some are short-sighted, some are mentally ill, some are wife beaters, some are religious, some are probably even pedophiles. To make a mistake, an error in judgement, is only human. To go to unsavoury lengths to hide it is probably also only human, to hopefully a lesser extent. It gives such a bad taste however, when the person in question is high up the proverbial ladder. I hope this Condon person is severely punished if he is found to have done what he is accused of. Those officers under him have likely suffered a lot in stating what they have, and that had to have taken a lot of courage. jmo.

 

[Karinna]

I agree with you. However, I believe you are attributing that statement to KT, when it was actually stated by the woman from W4W who won the court and appeal with FACS. Gotta run right now, but if needed, I can find the article in a few hours.

Yes, you are right, it was from this article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ls-William-Tyrrell-mission.html#ixzz4rOFxyHax

 

[Karinna]

I don't think anyone in their right mind would want their name published alllllllllll over national and international media in relation to a child under their care who disappeared into thin air. It goes without saying that nobody ever would want that for themselves.

And it is sad that sometimes when awful things happen to people, their names are ripped through the mud by the media... and suspicion is brought upon them until such time as a case is resolved. I have no doubt that it is a horrible, life-altering tragedy in itself, on TOP of their personal loss of their loved one.

But that is the society in which we live, like it or not, and that is how it is.. freedom of speech in our free world, and all of that. It seems that your media over there takes much greater liberty in thrashing someone through the mud than would ever be risked over here (due to fears of legal liabilities). (I am thinking about BS and I am quite certain I have seen nothing in my lifetime (and for good reason) like this media shitestorm which has been surrounding him for the past 3 years.)

My thoughts are, why should this family be accorded special privilege, which appears to be different from ANY other case in Aus, when they were in fact the very people with the responsibility to keep WT safe? It's okay now for the bio family, who have already LOST custody of their children, and then lost the life of one of them, to have their names dragged through the mud, but yet.. the people who were actually there, in charge, get to remain anonymous and protected by both police and media, for 3 years and counting. jmo.

It is very skewed reporting IMO, as far as the families in WT's life.
What exactly are they trying to justify?

 

[Bohemian]

Jeez . . .

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes that could be it.. Why have other foster parents been named in Australian cases of children missing or who have died while in foster care? What makes these people any better than those who have been named?
I think they have chosen or requested not to be named publicly. And I just don't think in my opinion, that that choice is in the best interest of William being found.

Hi. With regard to the part that I have bolded in your above comment, could you please provide us with links to an example or two? Specifically, foster parents who have been named during an ongoing investigation when their foster child has gone missing.

I am not aware of any foster parents who have been named during an ongoing investigation for their missing foster child, in Australia.

TIA :seeya:

 

[sleepinoz]

IMO there has been an order taken out, to protect Williams sister as suggested by Brereton, in Para 65:

To date, the carers and Sarah have apparently been able to escape identification in the mainstream media, because of the mistaken reliance on s 105 of the Care and Protection Act. It may be that, to protect Sarah from the exposure and risk which identification as Julian’s sister might attract, an order could be made, for Sarah’s protection, prohibiting publication of information that might lead to the identification of Sarah as the sister of Julian. [65] However, no application for such an order is before the court, and such an order, while it would afford protection to Sarah, would not prevent disclosure of Julian’s in-care status.

https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/58853ecfe4b058596cba36a9

 

[Hbayne]

Yes that could be it.. Why have other foster parents been named in Australian cases of children missing or who have died while in foster care? What makes these people any better than those who have been named?
I think they have chosen or requested not to be named publicly. And I just don't think in my opinion, that that choice is in the best interest of William being found.

Really ?? Which cases are you referring too ?

 

[What's up with that?]

I said missing or died. So let's start with Tialeigh Palmer and Braxton Slager. Both in foster care, all foster parents named. It has been 3 years for William and the foster parents are still not widely known, or named in media. Why?

Eta: in response to Hbayne and SouthAussie

 

[Hbayne]

I said missing or died. So let's start with Tialeigh Palmer and Braxton Slager. Both in foster care, all foster parents named. It has been 3 years for William and the foster parents are still not widely known, or named in media. Why?

Eta: in response to Hbayne and SouthAussie

Ok but was wondering about other cases of missing foster children.

 

[What's up with that?]

IMO there has been an order taken out, to protect Williams sister as suggested by Brereton, in Para 65:



https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/58853ecfe4b058596cba36a9

And yet, as I said anyone can google and find her name, dob, photos and the fact she is William's sister etc in a short amount of time.
I have no problem whatsoever with this little girl being protected. I do however in my opinion think that hiding the identities of the three adults who were present/ responsible for him when he "went missing" is not helping this case.