Found Deceased Australia - Elisa Curry, 43, Aireys Inlet, Melbourne, 30 Sept 2017 #3

[JLZ]

[h=1]Family, friends farewell Elisa Curry as probe continues into cause of her death[/h]
A spokesman for the Coroner's Court of Victoria has confirmed it is an open case.



http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/f...-into-cause-of-her-death-20171026-gz9d9b.html

Aireys Inlet CFA captain David Morton said Ms Curry's husband, David, called him last week to tell him of the family's request for donations to the authority.
"It was very nice of them," Mr Morton said.
Mr Morton, who is also a local electrician, said he first met Mr Curry more than a year ago after the family first came to the town.

I believe I misunderstood "an open case" to mean an open finding. I don't believe the coroner has made a finding or that there has been an inquest yet. That is why police are still investigating--to collect information to put before the coroner. The coroner has opened a case in the expectation that there will be an inquest.

 

[SouthAussie]

There's the possibility that those responsible for the safety of the area have been at fault. The husband would have the means and togetherness to sue. Perhaps the further investigations are to see whether negligence can be ruled in or out.

I don't think the police really get involved with negligence matters. Lawyers certainly do.

If the police can determine that Elisa accidentally fell to her death due to a broken handrail, or rotting railing, then lawyers may step in with a case of negligence against the relevant council.

The fact that they are continuing their investigation means something to me. When little Eeva was murdered by her father, who committed suicide himself, the police did not continue investigating. It was clear what had happened. The matter went before the coroner.
The same with the case of Daniel O'Keeffe. The matter went straight before the coroner, as suicide was the police call.

I think the continuing police investigation would be more to do with determining if this was suicide, homicide, or an accident.

 

[SouthAussie]

Just to add to my above post, as I did not explain this element very clearly.

I think there are things that we are not aware of, things that make this a not-clear case. Elisa may have had bouts of depression and, yes, people may act pretty chipper when they have decided, for sure, to commit suicide - but the police know all that. This is not news to them.

There may well be things that are making them wonder. Maybe that last conversation with the neighbour, maybe something that has turned up in their investigation of the family finances, maybe something to do with the inheritance, maybe something else entirely. :dunno:

 

[Trooper]

Just to add to my above post, as I did not explain this element very clearly.

I think there are things that we are not aware of, things that make this a not-clear case. Elisa may have had bouts of depression and, yes, people may act pretty chipper when they have decided, for sure, to commit suicide - but the police know all that. This is not news to them.

There may well be things that are making them wonder. Maybe that last conversation with the neighbour, maybe something that has turned up in their investigation of the family finances, maybe something to do with the inheritance, maybe something else entirely. :dunno:

Precisely, SA.... I can't think of a murkier event , certainly not this year... the whole circumstance has huge red flags, gonging pinging red bells, ...all that stuff , all over it. The last minute idea that she was an alcoholic, and a depressant sounded just wrong to me at the time, , and even now, it doesn't sound any righter...lots of peculiar anomalies.. ... requiem mass in a Catholic Church, yet her children go to Ultra Conservative Anglican schools,.. what's up with that?.. came into a lot of money recently, within 18 months... .. not the first wife who inherits a bundle who suddenly upsets the applecart of power in a relationship... ... If she killed herself, what a horrible thing to do to her kids, at their holiday home, a place they all loved, one would say.. a place everyone chose, I would think. .. And why she would choose such a horrible way to die, I simply refuse to agree.. . she had no guarantee that she would be dead by the time the inhabitants of the ocean felt pangs of hunger and competed for her body as food. . .. She would have known, being a devotee of ocean living, so devoted she spent a million bucks just to live next to it, that she would most likely be eaten alive..

I honestly do not think that she could keep such madness a secret, from neighbors, her husband.. from anyone, as the degree of her incapacity to distinguish reality from fantasy would not be able to be concealed, .. certainly, the degree of mental incapacity required to choose such a violent death.

Along that path, Aireys to Anglesea, there isn't much opportunity to throw oneself into the sea,, landing on sand, or a bit of rock maybe... ....

 

[JLZ]

Thanks Trooper; I'd like to hear more about the location aspect as I've only been down that way once or twice, long ago. Say Elisa died close to where she was found, what is the cliff situation there? From the photographs I had just an impression that it looked more duney than steep and jagged.

 

[emirates1957]

Precisely, SA.... I can't think of a murkier event , certainly not this year... the whole circumstance has huge red flags, gonging pinging red bells, ...all that stuff , all over it. The last minute idea that she was an alcoholic, and a depressant sounded just wrong to me at the time, , and even now, it doesn't sound any righter...lots of peculiar anomalies.. ... requiem mass in a Catholic Church, yet her children go to Ultra Conservative Anglican schools,.. what's up with that?.. came into a lot of money recently, within 18 months... .. not the first wife who inherits a bundle who suddenly upsets the applecart of power in a relationship... ... If she killed herself, what a horrible thing to do to her kids, at their holiday home, a place they all loved, one would say.. a place everyone chose, I would think. .. And why she would choose such a horrible way to die, I simply refuse to agree.. . she had no guarantee that she would be dead by the time the inhabitants of the ocean felt pangs of hunger and competed for her body as food. . .. She would have known, being a devotee of ocean living, so devoted she spent a million bucks just to live next to it, that she would most likely be eaten alive..

I honestly do not think that she could keep such madness a secret, from neighbors, her husband.. from anyone, as the degree of her incapacity to distinguish reality from fantasy would not be able to be concealed, .. certainly, the degree of mental incapacity required to choose such a violent death.

Along that path, Aireys to Anglesea, there isn't much opportunity to throw oneself into the sea,, landing on sand, or a bit of rock maybe... ....

Agree, spent many Xmas holidays camping in Anglesea as a kid. You would have to do one hell of a swan dive to land into the ocean. Point Roadknight is a different animal. I remember a group of 10 ....16 year old kids took a few bottles of passion pop and walked/stumbled to the end of point. Around 2300 the tide came in if you slipped from the top of the rocks you were seriously going into the drink. On reflection that area from memory would be more likely to be causation of a serious accident.

 

[SouthAussie]

Agree, spent many Xmas holidays camping in Anglesea as a kid. You would have to do one hell of a swan dive to land into the ocean. Point Roadknight is a different animal. I remember a group of 10 ....16 year old kids took a few bottles of passion pop and walked/stumbled to the end of point. Around 2300 the tide came in if you slipped from the top of the rocks you were seriously going into the drink. On reflection that area from memory would be more likely to be causation of a serious accident.

I have been studying the coastline there, from satellite pics. It looks to me that there is a strip of continuous dry sand at Point Roadknight. As if the tide does not (often) come all the way in to meet the land?

https://www.google.com.au/maps/dir/...5218d0040!2m2!1d144.1825171!2d-38.4096639!3e0


I also noted that there was a fisherman who died 14 years ago when he was washed off the rocks at Aireys Inlet. His body was found 500 metres away, not 10 km away at Point Roadknight. Which, to me, cancels out the incidence of an Aireys Inlet fall and being caught in the riptide ... ending up at Point Roadknight.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2003-06-20/fishermans-body-found-after-being-washed-off-rocks/1873618


In between those two points, there appears to be nowhere to jump off cliffs. More like rolling/falling down a vegetation-covered, sandy steep incline to the permanently dry strip of sand along the high side of the beach.

 

[Blue Bottle]

One problem being that we have not been told publically what the personal matter which Elisa had spoken about with her neighbour and which has formed part of the police investigation was...

As far as being suicidal and depressed and alcoholic, well, that's all merely speculative and it has never been stated in mainstream media that Elisa definately was any of those things other than briefly made mention of in the leaked police document which was soon taken down.

We haven't been told how large or small her inheritance was or whether she has received it yet or not. All we were told was that she was having problems with it. Depending on what is happening, it can sometimes take years to sort some inheritances out - at the moment I'm waiting for one which so far has already been almost 7 years.

No person or persons of interest, no cause of death... in a nutshell, nothing much said publically other than mostly speculation...


One neighbour told police Mrs Curry had prepared for bed about 10pm, after the two had spoken of a personal matter. That conversation has for*med part of the police investigation.

An economist before beco*ming a full-time mother, Mrs Curry had been battling personal problems.

But friends said she had seemed “in good spirits” the night before she disappeared.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...y/news-story/a786bb61b43b0b3c0e157d67efb6621e

 

[Bohemian]

I have been studying the coastline there, from satellite pics. It looks to me that there is a strip of continuous dry sand at Point Roadknight. As if the tide does not (often) come all the way in to meet the land?

https://www.google.com.au/maps/dir/...5218d0040!2m2!1d144.1825171!2d-38.4096639!3e0


I also noted that there was a fisherman who died 14 years ago when he was washed off the rocks at Aireys Inlet. His body was found 500 metres away, not 10 km away at Point Roadknight. Which, to me, cancels out the incidence of an Aireys Inlet fall and being caught in the riptide ... ending up at Point Roadknight.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2003-06-20/fishermans-body-found-after-being-washed-off-rocks/1873618


In between those two points, there appears to be nowhere to jump off cliffs. More like rolling/falling down a vegetation-covered, sandy steep incline to the permanently dry strip of sand along the high side of the beach.

BBM. The fisherman’s remains were also found hours after he was washed off the rocks:

Searchers have found a body about 500 metres east of where a fisherman was swept off rocks at Victoria's Aireys Inlet earlier this evening.’

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2003-06-20/fishermans-body-found-after-being-washed-off-rocks/1873618

Elisa’s remains were found 11 days after she disappeared and the current at the time was heading out to sea. Where and when remains are found depends on the direction and strength of sea currents, tides, how long they spend on the sea floor and whether remains are lodged under rocks, etc.

 

[Trooper]

One problem being that we have not been told publically what the personal matter which Elisa had spoken about with her neighbour and which has formed part of the police investigation was...

As far as being suicidal and depressed and alcoholic, well, that's all merely speculative and it has never been stated in mainstream media that Elisa definately was any of those things other than briefly made mention of in the leaked police document which was soon taken down.

We haven't been told how large or small her inheritance was or whether she has received it yet or not. All we were told was that she was having problems with it. Depending on what is happening, it can sometimes take years to sort some inheritances out - at the moment I'm waiting for one which so far has already been almost 7 years.

No person or persons of interest, no cause of death... in a nutshell, nothing much said publically other than mostly speculation...


One neighbour told police Mrs Curry had prepared for bed about 10pm, after the two had spoken of a personal matter. That conversation has for*med part of the police investigation.

An economist before beco*ming a full-time mother, Mrs Curry had been battling personal problems.

But friends said she had seemed “in good spirits” the night before she disappeared.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...y/news-story/a786bb61b43b0b3c0e157d67efb6621e

well.. that's what people here do a lot of. Speculate. About a lot of angles. I , for one, don't buy the theory that she killed herself. Nor that she met with an accident. .. Other people embrace both these theories with enthusiasm..... All speculation. If we knew what happened there would be nothing to sleuth.


on the info currently available, I expect the coroner to call it an open finding. Which means investigation doesn't stop .. could go on for days, or decades. Until the coroner himself is able to stop speculation and declare. ...

 

[Bohemian]

Thanks Trooper; I'd like to hear more about the location aspect as I've only been down that way once or twice, long ago. Say Elisa died close to where she was found, what is the cliff situation there? From the photographs I had just an impression that it looked more duney than steep and jagged.

I have been studying the coastline there, from satellite pics. It looks to me that there is a strip of continuous dry sand at Point Roadknight. As if the tide does not (often) come all the way in to meet the land?

[RSBM.]

In between those two points, there appears to be nowhere to jump off cliffs. More like rolling/falling down a vegetation-covered, sandy steep incline to the permanently dry strip of sand along the high side of the beach.

Agree, spent many Xmas holidays camping in Anglesea as a kid. You would have to do one hell of a swan dive to land into the ocean. Point Roadknight is a different animal. I remember a group of 10 ....16 year old kids took a few bottles of passion pop and walked/stumbled to the end of point. Around 2300 the tide came in if you slipped from the top of the rocks you were seriously going into the drink. On reflection that area from memory would be more likely to be causation of a serious accident.

Aireys via Urquharts to Anglesea ‘back beach’ (O’donoghue’s) is a very different animal too. This link should give some idea of the terrain:

https://beachsafe.org.au/beach/vic/surf-coast/aireys-inlet/urquhart-bluff-south

[Note: Airey’s Inlet and Point Roadknight/Anglesea beaches can be searched on this site too.]

Walking/running route (Airey’s to O’donoghue’s) in grey:

https://goo.gl/maps/TXuEsGXm6ip

or, alternatively, on beaches.

 

[bearbear]

we also dont know if elisas body had been in the sea, she may have died where her remains were found

 

[Trooper]

we also dont know if elisas body had been in the sea, she may have died where her remains were found

count me out of that 'we'.... I am totally convinced her body was in the sea. It is hard to conceive that her body, what was left of it, random bits and pieces, would have laid around on the sand at Point Roadknight , day and night, for 11 days, during a huge and elaborate search by air, sea, and foot.

Hard to believe her body bobbed around in the sea off Pt Roadknight for 11 days, too.. . against the current, and all....

 

[JLZ]

I had discounted running at night because of darkness and uneven ground, but what about running along the beach at night (Urqhart Bluff to Point Roadknight)? There would have been some moonlight, which, reflected off the sea, might be enough once one's eyes got used to it--or not? Low tide.

Video of running on these beaches:
[video=vimeo;124386210]https://vimeo.com/124386210[/video]

Edit: If the link doesn't work, it's "What’s with the The King: Surf Coast Trail Marathon" at Vimeo.

 

[Trooper]

I had discounted running at night because of darkness and uneven ground, but what about running along the beach at night (Urqhart Bluff to Point Roadknight)? There would have been some moonlight, which, reflected off the sea, might be enough once one's eyes got used to it--or not? Low tide.

Video of running on these beaches:
[video=vimeo;124386210]https://vimeo.com/124386210[/video]

Edit: If the link doesn't work, it's "What’s with the The King: Surf Coast Trail Marathon" at Vimeo.

that's a lovely clip, JLZ.. It gives a far better perspective of the terrain than the overhead view. I was jogging along in my mind.. .. har de har har. It was school holidays, the place, the track, the beaches, all are inhabited.. The chance of a lone runner in the morning, I put at very slim, no one seeing anyone else, the entire place to yourself.. a very very slim chance of that. .

And it was a Saturday morning.. Prime runners time. People drive out from Geelong , up from Lorne, Eastern View, down from Melbourne, Williamstown Athletic Club runs a bus down early Sat morning for members to do that run... just to do that run along that beach, and that track.. even at night. The LED headband with light makes that easy.

 

[SouthAussie]

I had discounted running at night because of darkness and uneven ground, but what about running along the beach at night (Urqhart Bluff to Point Roadknight)? There would have been some moonlight, which, reflected off the sea, might be enough once one's eyes got used to it--or not? Low tide.

Video of running on these beaches:
.

What a beautiful beach area. Just stunning. No wonder Elisa loved it there.

Listening to the video just confirms for me that the tide does not reach the dunes/coastline, other than during a king tide.

So, how did Elisa get out into that ocean? And when did she get out into that ocean? There are 2 high tides and 2 low tides each day. She went missing any time between 10:30pm and 9am. Her remains had 10 days or less to get into the ocean.

.

 

[Bohemian]

I had discounted running at night because of darkness and uneven ground, but what about running along the beach at night (Urqhart Bluff to Point Roadknight)? There would have been some moonlight, which, reflected off the sea, might be enough once one's eyes got used to it--or not? Low tide.

Video of running on these beaches:
[video=vimeo;124386210]https://vimeo.com/124386210[/video]

Edit: If the link doesn't work, it's "What’s with the The King: Surf Coast Trail Marathon" at Vimeo.

I think Elisa may have come to grief in the morning, given the very vague report of an Airey’s Inlet resident seeing a woman running without a dog on the Clifftop Walk near Sunnymeade Beach at around 8am (which, coincidentally, was also around the time of the first high tide) on the Sunday she disappeared.

This is what the trail looks like at high (king) tide:

‘“It was brutal,” said Coleman at the finish line. “The main difference from when I first ran it was back then it was a King Tide. This year it felt like a super king tide with massive swell. I was above my knees in water at times!”’

SWELL TIMES AT SURF COAST TRAIL HIGH
BY CHRIS ORD
DATE 28TH JUNE 2017

http://www.surfcoasttrailmarathon.com.au/swell-times-at-surf-coast-trail-high/

From your link:

https://vimeo.com/124386210

Conditions were much the same during the running of the trail marathon in 2014 and the link I posted yesterday (above) makes reference to high tides in that area IIRC.

Was the tide a ‘king tide’ that Sunday morning?

 

[SouthAussie]

I think Elisa may have come to grief in the morning, given the very vague report of an Airey’s Inlet resident seeing a woman running without a dog on the Clifftop Walk near Sunnymeade Beach at around 8am (which, coincidentally, was also around the time of the first high tide) on the Sunday she disappeared.

This is what the trail looks like at high (king) tide:

Conditions were much the same during the running of the trail marathon in 2014 and the link I posted yesterday (above) makes reference to high tides in that area IIRC.

Was the tide a ‘king tide’ that Sunday morning?

BBM: A high tide is very different from a king tide. A high tide is a normal closer-washing tide, a king tide is a ferocious, over-spraying, angry tide created by a big storm with massive winds blowing at the same time as high tide.

I have experienced several king tides when I lived close to the beach. They are very scary, and not something a runner would train in. There is generally no beach even visible during a king tide. Just crashing waves right up to the land's edge.

 

[JLZ]

I think Elisa may have come to grief in the morning, given the very vague report of an Airey’s Inlet resident seeing a woman running without a dog on the Clifftop Walk near Sunnymeade Beach at around 8am (which, coincidentally, was also around the time of the first high tide) on the Sunday she disappeared.

This is what the trail looks like at high (king) tide:

‘“It was brutal,” said Coleman at the finish line. “The main difference from when I first ran it was back then it was a King Tide. This year it felt like a super king tide with massive swell. I was above my knees in water at times!”’

SWELL TIMES AT SURF COAST TRAIL HIGH
BY CHRIS ORD
DATE 28TH JUNE 2017

http://www.surfcoasttrailmarathon.com.au/swell-times-at-surf-coast-trail-high/

From your link:

https://vimeo.com/124386210

Conditions were much the same during the running of the trail marathon in 2014 and the link I posted yesterday (above) makes reference to high tides in that area IIRC.

Was the tide a ‘king tide’ that Sunday morning?

It was not an especially high high tide on Sunday 1 October. The high point was 1.33m at 8am. Compare this to the high point on 11 October, 1.72m, or expected for 8 & 9 November, 1.78m.

 

[WWW&H]

Here is a link to met bureau tide datum for relative period. It appears that if Elisa did go in for a swim the timing was as high tide was going out. All the beaches in area are also subject to powerful rips therefore it is possible she had got herself caught up in a rip on a lowering high tide. The worst possible scenario imo


http://www.bom.gov.au/oceanography/projects/ntc/vic_tide_tables.shtml