VA - Bethany Stephens, 21, mauled to death by her 2 dogs, Dec 2017

[gitana1]

Wow. You're right, they can be sued, and this is only for starters. I haven't looked into the rest of them yet.

ASPCA to pay $9.3 million of owner of Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus in elephant lawsuit
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/aspca-pay-9-3m-circus-elephant-lawsuit-article-1.1229299

Ok. If you don't like the aspca, here are several scientific studies:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.se...it-bulls-inherently-dangerous-1765773898.html

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...ict-whether-dog-will-be-aggressive-180949962/

http://journaltimes.com/news/local/...cle_a10131da-e780-11e2-92c5-0019bb2963f4.html

http://www.appliedanimalbehaviour.com/article/S0168-1591(08)00114-7/abstract

 

[Spellbound]

That's a blogspot. I'm going to go with the ASPCA instead. Especially as they are an entity that can actually be sued for false statements that lead to injury or death.

question ... am I mistaken?.... I think we are not supposed to quote blogs here as a “fact”. I think it is in TOS. Can anyone enlighten me if I am right or wrong? Thank you,

 

[LadyL]

generally speaking, some human is to blame when any dog attacks - despite what some say, no dog attack is unprovoked
if you watch attacks caught on video, there is always a human error because humans don't bother to learn about dog behaviour before getting a dog
I don't know enough about this particular case to 'blame' the victim and in fact, there is a lot of doubt as to what really happened

Are you saying the young woman in this case is to blame? By all accounts she was a loving owner and experienced with animals.


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[LadyL]

yes, the truth that BSL is wrong
I work with dogs everday

I really can't see where there is any mystery as to who attacked this defenseless woman and tore her throat out. It is clearly the dogs who did this. Ie., dogs who were loved and petted and who slept with the victim every night in her bed. No abused animals here. I think it is time that people actually just see the truth for the truth. I've been an animal lover for my entire life and have advocated for dogs but it is what it is and eventually people just have to accept the truth for what it is.

 

[flourish]

Ugh I've feared dogs since getting cornered in a back yard with two Dobermans when I was 3. I'd finally gotten over my fear in my 20's. So fast forward to 2 years ago... I spent a lovely afternoon with a deaf pit who was retired from working with the red Cross. This dog was so sweet and recognized ASL signs and we had such a nice time playing and "talking." Then I leave and drop by my friend's house where her Chihuahua promptly bit me. And now I'm scared of little dogs. Some of the sweetest dogs I've met were pits. Would I own one? Nope. Am I slightly worried about my newborn grandniece who lives with a pit? You betcha but I don't want to bring it up to my niece, either. Sigh, sorry I'm just rambling... This is such a sad story, regardless of what happened.

 

[Hraefn]

Many people here have cited the dogsbite.org website. This website is flat out political propaganda. The "statistics" the site uses are very biased. Several scholarly articles and published works have discredited their numbers. For instance, they will use the number of times "pit bull attack" and similar buzz words are posted in newspapers to gather data. The same attack could be reported by hundreds of newspapers and websites and they can count every single article as an instance of attack, and this isn't the only way the data is misleading. It is flat out BS. It is very easy to skew data when you start with the conclusion, as the woman who runs this "organization" does.

Also, if these dogs were 100-120 lbs a piece rather than 50-60 lbs a piece there is NO WAY they are any of the breeds that fall within the loose "pit bull" term. 60 lbs is even large for a pit bull breed dog.

Another "fact" I have seen posted about here is that pit bulls were originally bred to kill or attack. No one linked anything for this of course because it is, again, another media rumor. Pit bull breeds were bred for multiple differing purposes, from being nanny dogs to assist with nursery care and protection, to aiding hunters of wild boars. Pit bull breeds were not developed to fight or kill humans or other dogs.

Some mainstream sources discuss dogsbite.org
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/steffen-baldwin/the-lies-damn-lies-and-st_b_8112394.html
http://www.teampitafull.org/DogsBite.html
https://www.thedodo.com/five-dog-pages-you-need-to-stop-linking-to-1091066497.html
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/douglas-anthony-cooper/merritt-clifton-pit-bulls_b_5866176.html

Scholarly articles debunking the myth of dogsbite.org
http://www.journalvetbehavior.com/article/S1558-7878(06)00012-8/fulltext
http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/anim10&div=14&id=&page=
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1576444/pdf/canvetj00105-0032.pdf
http://www.journalvetbehavior.com/article/S1558-7878(07)00236-5/fulltext

No canine or animal organization supports banning specific breeds. The American Kennel Club, the ASPCA, the American Veterinary Medical Association, the Animal Farm Foundation, the British Veterinary Association, the National Canine Research Council, the US Dept. of Justice, the American Bar Association, the United Kennel Club, even the CDC does not support breed specific bans. These are the organizations responsible for collecting actual, scientific, objective data on things such as animal attacks. Do not let the media and it's political sways fool you.

 

[bears10]

yes, the truth that BSL is wrong
I work with dogs everday

The victim also worked at a dog training facility.


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[Hraefn]

I don't think anyone is arguing that dogs are never dangerous. Dogs, like any animal, can be very dangerous. The larger/stronger the dog (as with any animal), the more potential for devastating injury if something were to happen. The problem is the misrepresentation and media falsehoods that result in innocent animals being killed and innocent animals' families having their lifelong pets ripped from their hands to be euthanized because of the effect the fake data has on politics. The problem is dangerous dogs, not breeds, and especially not a made up classification that can entail any number of breeds; aka "pit bull".

 

[bears10]

generally speaking, some human is to blame when any dog attacks - despite what some say, no dog attack is unprovoked
if you watch attacks caught on video, there is always a human error because humans don't bother to learn about dog behaviour before getting a dog
I don't know enough about this particular case to 'blame' the victim and in fact, there is a lot of doubt as to what really happened

That’s a pretty bold statement IMO to say that no dog attacks unprovoked.

LE doesn’t seem to think there’s doubt about what happened. She was mauled and killed by her dogs according to them. Her own family wants the dogs euthanized. I guess we’ll see what, if anything, is found in the dogs in terms of DNA.


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[AzPistonsGirl]

So hard to sit on my hands in this thread. Thanks to those who are trying to help others see both sides of this issue.

Sad for Bethany and those who knew and loved her. And I'll say it - sad for her dogs too.

 

[flourish]

Ugh I've feared dogs since getting cornered in a back yard with two Dobermans when I was 3. I'd finally gotten over my fear in my 20's. So fast forward to 2 years ago... I spent a lovely afternoon with a deaf pit who was retired from working with the red Cross. This dog was so sweet and recognized ASL signs and we had such a nice time playing and "talking." Then I leave and drop by my friend's house where her Chihuahua promptly bit me. And now I'm scared of little dogs. Some of the sweetest dogs I've met were pits. Would I own one? Nope. Am I slightly worried about my newborn grandniece who lives with a pit? You betcha but I don't want to bring it up to my niece, either. Sigh, sorry I'm just rambling... This is such a sad story, regardless of what happened.

Well don't I feel like an *advertiser censored* now--my husband just told me my niece's pit died today.

 

[gitana1]

Many people here have cited the dogsbite.org website. This website is flat out political propaganda. The "statistics" the site uses are very biased. Several scholarly articles and published works have discredited their numbers. For instance, they will use the number of times "pit bull attack" and similar buzz words are posted in newspapers to gather data. The same attack could be reported by hundreds of newspapers and websites and they can count every single article as an instance of attack, and this isn't the only way the data is misleading. It is flat out BS. It is very easy to skew data when you start with the conclusion, as the woman who runs this "organization" does.

Also, if these dogs were 100-120 lbs a piece rather than 50-60 lbs a piece there is NO WAY they are any of the breeds that fall within the loose "pit bull" term. 60 lbs is even large for a pit bull breed dog.

Another "fact" I have seen posted about here is that pit bulls were originally bred to kill or attack. No one linked anything for this of course because it is, again, another media rumor. Pit bull breeds were bred for multiple differing purposes, from being nanny dogs to assist with nursery care and protection, to aiding hunters of wild boars. Pit bull breeds were not developed to fight or kill humans or other dogs.

Some mainstream sources discuss dogsbite.org
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/steffen-baldwin/the-lies-damn-lies-and-st_b_8112394.html
http://www.teampitafull.org/DogsBite.html
https://www.thedodo.com/five-dog-pages-you-need-to-stop-linking-to-1091066497.html
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/douglas-anthony-cooper/merritt-clifton-pit-bulls_b_5866176.html

Scholarly articles debunking the myth of dogsbite.org
http://www.journalvetbehavior.com/article/S1558-7878(06)00012-8/fulltext
http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/anim10&div=14&id=&page=
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1576444/pdf/canvetj00105-0032.pdf
http://www.journalvetbehavior.com/article/S1558-7878(07)00236-5/fulltext

No canine or animal organization supports banning specific breeds. The American Kennel Club, the ASPCA, the American Veterinary Medical Association, the Animal Farm Foundation, the British Veterinary Association, the National Canine Research Council, the US Dept. of Justice, the American Bar Association, the United Kennel Club, even the CDC does not support breed specific bans. These are the organizations responsible for collecting actual, scientific, objective data on things such as animal attacks. Do not let the media and it's political sways fool you.

Thanks for that well-reasoned post.

I think the big issue is fear. When people feel fear it is easy for confirmation bias to occur. And also for false information to be disseminated. I mean unless a person has a direct reason like a dog killed their loved one, the only reason for having an entire website devoted to how evil an animal is, is fear, IMO.

Interestingly, the people I find who tend to fear breeds classified as "pitbulls" (mastiff/terrier mixes with their distinct heads, mouths, short fur and muscular bodies) the most are men.

 

[anonypotomous]

Well don't I feel like an *advertiser censored* now--my husband just told me my niece's pit died today.

Awww


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[Elley Mae]

Going to throw this out, would a woman menstruated cause two male dogs to attack each other?

 

[Jax49]

Well don't I feel like an *advertiser censored* now--my husband just told me my niece's pit died today.

I'm so sorry, but also relieved. Don't beat yourself up too much. moo

 

[GrilledCheezy]

Going to throw this out, would a woman menstruated cause two male dogs to attack each other?

I don't know, but that's a very good question.

 

[Lilibet]

Going to throw this out, would a woman menstruated cause two male dogs to attack each other?

The owner of the two Presa Canarios that attacked Diane Whipple in SF tried to use that as part of their defense. It didn’t work, but I have no idea if it’s true or not.

 

[Jennifer17]

Going to throw this out, would a woman menstruated cause two male dogs to attack each other?

I think that there would be a lot more attacks if that were the case.

 

[LaborDayRN]

But those are genetic markers.

Not really. Actually, a genetic marker is a gene, I don't think a specific gene has been identified in any of these breeds as far as behavior is concerned. But I believe many breeds demonstrate behavior consistent with their "jobs" as human companions.

ge·net·ic mark·er
noun
plural noun: genetic markers
a gene or short sequence of DNA used to identify a chromosome or to locate other genes on a genetic map.

 

[Jax49]

Going to throw this out, would a woman menstruated cause two male dogs to attack each other?

Interesting thought. My guess is it could happen. moo