Found Deceased NC - Mariah Woods, 3, Onslow County, 27 Nov 2017 #9 *Arrest*

[Zelda1010]

I wish I could just edit my post 975, but after logging out and in and refreshing, I still can't. On the plus side, now I am in the full version and see the thanks button everyone talks about.

Anyway, NM, found at least some of the docs again. Now I don't even see the nose bleed mention, though.

http://www.wfmynews2.com/mobile/art...s-sexually-abused-by-moms-boyfriend/496965834

 

[Grouchymom]

I wish I could just edit my post 975, but after logging out and in and refreshing, I still can't. On the plus side, now I am in the full version and see the thanks button everyone talks about.

Anyway, NM, found at least some of the docs again. Now I don't even see the nose bleed mention, though.

http://www.wfmynews2.com/mobile/art...s-sexually-abused-by-moms-boyfriend/496965834

‘The nosebleed and possible SA of Mariah was from NG and we ever saw those pages

 

[Tortoise]

‘The nosebleed and possible SA of Mariah was from NG and we ever saw those pages

I saw them but they seem to have been removed from the web now. The documents said that the information was gained from interviewing the two brothers, and mentioned that the children had been exposed to adult conversations and behaviour too.

 

[MyBelle]

Please don't insinuate a child is to blame. They haven't charged him because they have him where they want him. In jail. They are in no hurry with murder charges.

Furthermore, this delay in serious charges is not abnormal in these kinds of cases. Especially when they can charge the person with something less serious but keep them in jail.

Finally, as they stated, they have three grand jury proceedings scheduled and that is probably how they do things when they can in this state: Send it to the grand jury and let the grand jury make the decision to indict.

Have patience.

If the grand jury indicts on murder, will there be a preliminary hearing? I think the delay to April isn't just because they want to indict EK but because they are building cases against co-conspirators.

 

[MyBelle]

BBM

I don't think anyone believes they are completely innocent in this child's death, but I for one am not willing at this time to say they are guilty of intentional harm or murder either.

Until the autopsy results are released and a COD is named, I don't think any of us know anything for sure.

For myself I am going to wait until COD is named and the autopsy is released before I commit to either of them being completely guilty or completely innocent.

In other words I would like some iron clad facts before I buy any rope or send them a sympathy bouquet.

Once a death is intentionally covered-up and the body concealed, an accident will be impossible for most folks to believe. Especially in a case that has a history of CPS being involved because of abuse. In the case of Casey Anthony, if there had been a history of CPS, I think the jury would have come to a completely different conclusion.

 

[MyBelle]

BBM

There are many ways that child could have died.

I don't think anyone is insinuating a child is to blame, but rather that Mariah's death may have been accidental. I too think that because there has been no murder charges filed that neither EK or KW intentionally killed her. Them perhaps being negligent in her death is another story altogether.

I don't know how it is done in other states, but here they usually slap you with the highest possible charge and then lower it to something else if they don't have the evidence to follow through. For example if they thought EK was culpable in her death they would have charged him with 1st degree murder the day he was arrested, then as evidence did not follow through lower it to manslaughter, or dismiss the charges entirely. Very rarely do they convene a grand jury.

The fact that EK was not charged with murder right off indicates to me that LE was not sure the child died as a result of intentional harm. And since there is still no murder charge after the autopsy was done makes me think that the evidence just does not support a clear cut case of intentional murder. Negligence by one or both of them in her death could perhaps be argued but as neither have yet been charged with that I am not willing at this time to say that is true.

We have not seen an autopsy report yet nor has a COD been named and we do not know what injuries or lack thereof that LE or the coroner saw when they found her body. So let's not jump to rash conclusions and break out the hanging rope just yet.

I've never heard of any state that slaps serious murder charges on someone and then later says, oops, we can't prove it but we can prove such and such. Meanwhile the defendant languishes in jail because they can't afford bail. That sounds seriously unconstitutional to me.

 

[Niner]

I wish I could just edit my post 975, but after logging out and in and refreshing, I still can't. On the plus side, now I am in the full version and see the thanks button everyone talks about.

Anyway, NM, found at least some of the docs again. Now I don't even see the nose bleed mention, though.

http://www.wfmynews2.com/mobile/art...s-sexually-abused-by-moms-boyfriend/496965834

re bold - you only have an hour to edit a post!

 

[gitana1]

BBM

There are many ways that child could have died.

I don't think anyone is insinuating a child is to blame, but rather that Mariah's death may have been accidental. I too think that because there has been no murder charges filed that neither EK or KW intentionally killed her. Them perhaps being negligent in her death is another story altogether.

I don't know how it is done in other states, but here they usually slap you with the highest possible charge and then lower it to something else if they don't have the evidence to follow through. For example if they thought EK was culpable in her death they would have charged him with 1st degree murder the day he was arrested, then as evidence did not follow through lower it to manslaughter, or dismiss the charges entirely. Very rarely do they convene a grand jury.

The fact that EK was not charged with murder right off indicates to me that LE was not sure the child died as a result of intentional harm. And since there is still no murder charge after the autopsy was done makes me think that the evidence just does not support a clear cut case of intentional murder. Negligence by one or both of them in her death could perhaps be argued but as neither have yet been charged with that I am not willing at this time to say that is true.

We have not seen an autopsy report yet nor has a COD been named and we do not know what injuries or lack thereof that LE or the coroner saw when they found her body. So let's not jump to rash conclusions and break out the hanging rope just yet.

Its not a rash conclusion that the man arrested for disposing of the body of a child who died of unnatural causes is involved in her death. That's a logical conclusion.

And no one is advocating "breaking out the hanging rope". Even though sleuthers are able to utilize critical thinking skills to come to a rational judgment about what likely happened and who was involved does not mean this is a mob. We believe in the process of law here.

Give it a decade on websleuths and you will see that lack of an immediate arrest for homicide means little in many cases.

 

[JaneEyre]

Its not a rash conclusion that the man arrested for disposing of the body of a child who died of unnatural causes is involved in her death. That's a logical conclusion.

And no one is advocating "breaking out the hanging rope". Even though sleuthers are able to utilize critical thinking skills to come to a rational judgment about what likely happened and who was involved does not mean this is a mob. We believe in the process of law here.

Give it a decade on websleuths and you will see that lack of an immediate arrest for homicide means little in many cases.

OT - I don't always agree with you, Gitana (although mostly I do), but very often I wish I had a bat signal to send out to summon you back to a thread for a measured response that I am not capable of but know that you likely are.

In other words, I really appreciate your posts and logic, whether it's about legal matters or even dogs. And I appreciate your posts even when they aren't in agreement with mine.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[gitana1]

I don't think anyone on here who believes at least on of the persons involved in the death of Mariah is certain of the manner of death other than homicide. We
need to be clear on that. Not one person has stated "EL is guolty
of first degree murder."

LE may know the COD but is still putting together facts in order to determine whether this was manslaughter, second degree murder or first. That can take time, folks.

A great recent example is Kaytlynn Cargill's case. She went missing on 6-19. She was found on 6-21. Her COD was officially determined on 8-10. But the autopsy wasn't completed at that time and they said it could take another month.

A suspect was arrested on 9-1-17. The chain of events indicates they knew it was him (search warrants) by 6-25. He was the only one they were looking at.

http://www.wfaa.com/mobile/article/...ammer-after-suspected-drug-deal/287-470159288

In these cases they get one shot to prove their case. If they undercharge and later find evidence that supports a greater charge, no dice. Double jeopardy. If they overcharge based on initial assumptions, they can lose the case and that's that.

This isn't CSI. These things take a lot of work and time.

 

[gitana1]

OT - I don't always agree with you, Gitana (although mostly I do), but very often I wish I had a bat signal to send out to summon you back to a thread for a measured response that I am not capable of but know that you likely are.

In other words, I really appreciate your posts and logic, whether it's about legal matters or even dogs. And I appreciate your posts even when they aren't in agreement with mine.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Thanks! I always appreciate yours as well!!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

]I've never heard of any state that slaps serious murder charges on someone and then later says, oops, we can't prove it but we can prove such and such[/B]. Meanwhile the defendant languishes in jail because they can't afford bail. That sounds seriously unconstitutional to me.

BBM

Yeah well, this is the bull riding, calf roping, Stetson hat type of state and that is indeed how they do things here. I have seen it many times. Murder charges filed, suspect arrested, court date, a period of time suspect sitting in jail, DA comes back and says "ok we are dropping this to manslaughter, negligent homicide ect" or in a lot of cases "ok we are dismissing the charges at this time Your Honor" because the evidence just wasn't there.

But they either have overwhelming proof (suspect standing over the dead body with smoking gun in hand when they arrest them) or an autopsy report with COD as homicide before they make that arrest and charge the suspect with murder. It's that cowboy, John Wayne, mentality I guess.

But the people here also have a sense of fairness that says your are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. We gave up lynching people with no proof there was even a murder back in the 1800's before we even became a state.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Its not a rash conclusion that the man arrested for disposing of the body of a child who died of unnatural causes is involved in her death. That's a logical conclusion.

And no one is advocating "breaking out the hanging rope". Even though sleuthers are able to utilize critical thinking skills to come to a rational judgment about what likely happened and who was involved does not mean this is a mob. We believe in the process of law here.

Give it a decade on websleuths and you will see that lack of an immediate arrest for homicide means little in many cases.

BBM

But it is also not a forgone conclusion that he deliberately murdered her either.

Involved in disposing the body. : Yes.
Involved in trying to cover up her death for whatever reason. : Yes.
Guilty of intentionally killing her in a fit of rage or for other reason. : Not yet charged and no proof at this time that the child was murdered.

You are an attorney, remember that phrase "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of your peers? "

I advocate waiting until a COD and the results of the autopsy is made public before we slam the gavel down on a guilty verdict.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I don't think anyone on here who believes at least on of the persons involved in the death of Mariah is certain of the manner of death other than homicide. We
need to be clear on that. Not one person has stated "EL is guolty
of first degree murder."

LE may know the COD but is still putting together facts in order to determine whether this was manslaughter, second degree murder or first. That can take time, folks.

A great recent example is Kaytlynn Cargill's case. She went missing on 6-19. She was found on 6-21. Her COD was officially determined on 8-10. But the autopsy wasn't completed at that time and they said it could take another month.

A suspect was arrested on 9-1-17. The chain of events indicates they knew it was him (search warrants) by 6-25. He was the only one they were looking at.

http://www.wfaa.com/mobile/article/...ammer-after-suspected-drug-deal/287-470159288

In these cases they get one shot to prove their case. If they undercharge and later find evidence that supports a greater charge, no dice. Double jeopardy. If they overcharge based on initial assumptions, they can lose the case and that's that.

This isn't CSI. These things take a lot of work and time.

My experience on websleuths is that the posters on here deal in facts, not conjecture. The mods preach it over and over. If you say it either post a link to it or make a disclaimer in plain sight that what you are saying is just your own opinion.

Don't get me wrong Gitana, I enjoy your posts and find them to be very enlightening on many subjects. I think you are a logical person and I love that in other people.

All I am saying is wait until we have more facts, more proof, to conclude anyone is guilty of murder or anything other than what LE (who I admit has more facts than any of us on here does including me) has charged them with.

One thing I have learned in my many years of living (I am three days older than dirt) is that people can do some really stupid things for some really stupid reasons. They will lie when the truth would be better. So I consider that when wondering whether these two, EK and KW, would try to hide and cover up an accident.

 

[JaneEyre]

My experience on websleuths is that the posters on here deal in facts, not conjecture. The mods preach it over and over. If you say it either post a link to it or make a disclaimer in plain sight that what you are saying is just your own opinion.

Don't get me wrong Gitana, I enjoy your posts and find them to be very enlightening on many subjects. I think you are a logical person and I love that in other people.

All I am saying is wait until we have more facts, more proof, to conclude anyone is guilty of murder or anything other than what LE (who I admit has more facts than any of us on here does including me) has charged them with.

One thing I have learned in my many years of living (I am three days older than dirt) is that people can do some really stupid things for some really stupid reasons. They will lie when the truth would be better. So I consider that when wondering whether these two, EK and KW, would try to hide and cover up an accident.

We're all just speculating based on the information we have. That's what we do here. I don't think anyone has said it's a fact that one or the other adult in this situation committed the homicide. But most of us agree it likely was a homicide and have various theories for who did what.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[haven71]

Is there a new thread somewhere?

 

[MyBelle]

My experience on websleuths is that the posters on here deal in facts, not conjecture. The mods preach it over and over. If you say it either post a link to it or make a disclaimer in plain sight that what you are saying is just your own opinion.

Don't get me wrong Gitana, I enjoy your posts and find them to be very enlightening on many subjects. I think you are a logical person and I love that in other people.

All I am saying is wait until we have more facts, more proof, to conclude anyone is guilty of murder or anything other than what LE (who I admit has more facts than any of us on here does including me) has charged them with.

One thing I have learned in my many years of living (I am three days older than dirt) is that people can do some really stupid things for some really stupid reasons. They will lie when the truth would be better. So I consider that when wondering whether these two, EK and KW, would try to hide and cover up an accident.

I think the warrants and the resulting high bond are based on more than just conjecture and they are based on real facts. Disposing a child as though she is a sack of unwanted trash is an intentional vile, despicable crime of depravity. There is no excuse or defense to it. Striking a child to the point his nose is bloodied is a vile, despicable crime to which there is no defense. No way was either incident "a stupid accident." EK is sitting in jail for the next four months on a high bail because he is a vile, despicable human being very capable of murder. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

BBM

Yeah well, this is the bull riding, calf roping, Stetson hat type of state and that is indeed how they do things here. I have seen it many times. Murder charges filed, suspect arrested, court date, a period of time suspect sitting in jail, DA comes back and says "ok we are dropping this to manslaughter, negligent homicide ect" or in a lot of cases "ok we are dismissing the charges at this time Your Honor" because the evidence just wasn't there.

But they either have overwhelming proof (suspect standing over the dead body with smoking gun in hand when they arrest them) or an autopsy report with COD as homicide before they make that arrest and charge the suspect with murder. It's that cowboy, John Wayne, mentality I guess.

But the people here also have a sense of fairness that says your are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. We gave up lynching people with no proof there was even a murder back in the 1800's before we even became a state.

BBM. Now, I'm confused because you first said in your state a prosecutor will file the most serious charges even if the evidence isn't there and then reduce them. The paragraph I have bolded states the exact opposite.

In this case, I do believe the prosecutor is going to rely on a Grand Jury to indict on the more serious charges. EK is already in jail so there is no danger to society.

 

[JaneEyre]

Is there a new thread somewhere?

No. There's just been no new information to discuss. When a new thread starts, a link to it will appear at the end of this one and then the current one will be locked by the moderator.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM. Now, I'm confused because you first said in your state a prosecutor will file the most serious charges even if the evidence isn't there and then reduce them. The paragraph I have bolded states the exact opposite.

In this case, I do believe the prosecutor is going to rely on a Grand Jury to indict on the more serious charges. EK is already in jail so there is no danger to society.

BBM

I am sorry if I have confused you.