CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #6

[bluedivergirl]

My niece is 26 years old and she would not get out at the hospital! They had my SIL walking the halls at the hospital to help her along. So this was a thing 26 years ago, anyway.

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I can attest it was a thing 40 years ago. :gaah:

 

[Errrr]

I'm starting to think that the media are encouraging "witnesses" to come up with stories to fit the narrative. Waist-deep in filth? So he was wading waist deep through diapers and Vienna sausage cans, finding dead dogs and cats in the sludge of rubbish?

And the faeces covered living room with a chalkboard doesn't make sense to me either. I understand why the bedrooms were covered in faeces because the kids were chained up throughout the day which was their night. But were they also restrained and forbidden to go to the toilet during lesson times in the more "normal" period of family life when LT was at least attempting to home-school them? As their lives disintegrated, the living room (I believe) was filled with unopened toys and other hoarded objects, so I doubt the kids were told to do their business on the parents' special possessions.
And multiple dead dogs and cats? He can't say exactly how many dead dogs and cats he saw that day. That's a LOT of dead animals. As much as I believe LT is evil, I don't think she waves a magic wand to strike herds of animals dead once she's finished with a place.
I don't think this guy is credible. It sounds like he's saying what the media wants to hear.

When filthy tenants keep dogs and puppies irresponsibly, poop gets spread around after kids and animals step in or touch it. They bump against walls in play and wipe off hands that have touched it on the handiest thing available, the walls.

 

[JaneEyre]

Yes, we get that a lot around here, too.

I will refrain from passing too much judgment on the neighbor until he specifically says that he did not report those animals or call anyone. This being the early days of the media coverage, it's hard to get a full picture of everything going on. I think people are still trying to piece things together.

I'm not judging the neighbor. We don't know who failed. It appears that multiple people and/or organizations failed. If the neighbors reported it, then the organization they contacted failed.

My point is that there were missed opportunities on multiple levels 17 years ago.

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[Nelnoir]

I've been lurking here some time. This case and more importantly the acts involved are incomprehensible which is why I want to try to understand it.
Just wanted to comment on the living situation which they might have had in their homes for them to get as dirty in every (or almost every?) room, e.g. the living room covered with faeces.
I remember an article where they talk about the fridge, closets, all kind of appliances and spaces which could be closed and opened seemed to have locks attached to them. What does that mean?
I think it means that if the siblings were untied or unchained (which they were as punishment or for other purposes?), they were not able to use their home in any way. Everything seems to be tied to a permission, at least this is what these locks imply. Which does mean they were able to move around in the house (sometimes) but without much purpose, and if their hygienic conditions were as horrific as described, the rooms would get dirty, as well.
Another reason for "dirt" on walls and floors would be that, as already stated by several accounts, they were made to march around on the same spot for hours outisde or inside the house.
Again, couple this (the occasional ability to move around the house, or move in one spot) with hoarding and a general state of desolation and neglect of the home and living beins inside, and that is what you will probably get.
Of course, it's just speculation. But it is a theory I haven't seen mentioned here.

 

[Hope4More]

Yep. And when people get tired of their animal, they just drive down a country road, drop it off, and forget about it.

Yep. I used to live on a horse farm (rented a house there, not my farm or my horses, lol), and it was unbelievable how many times we had thrown-away cats appear at our doorstep (we figured the first cats must have left an invisible bread crumb trail to our door, or left an invisible "they're safe & cat wusses & will feed and help you" sign on that door).

 

[JerricaBenton]

It was good to see some of the children well enough to run to the van/carry the toddler out without help. Seems like some of them were in ok shape when rescued.

 

[mtnlites]

What state? Rabies laws are usually state laws. It's up to the county or city to enforce it. But I can't find a state that isn't included on the list that the AVMA puts out.

As I posted later, Johnson County had a Humane Society at the time. So there was someone to call about these dogs. No one has said yet that a call was made to anyone. It seems that nothing about this situation was reported to any authority.

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Technically the rabies vaccination still exists but they're generally more focused on animals that are brought into the state. It hasn't been enforced, however, since it was amended in 2005. In the more populated areas, the bigger cities, it's important to have the certification for safety reasons and to avoid the fines, but not here. Naturally, responsible pet owners do it anyway. We used to have a state law about tags but that was amended as well and now it's up to individual counties to decide what they want to do.

At any rate, I'm still sticking to my refrain from passing judgment on the neighbor. There's a lot of information in the MSM articles to discuss and he's not personally here to answer questions about whether or not he called or to go into depth on why he may or may not have. Maybe he did and it wasn't documented. Maybe he did and the media just hasn't reported on that yet. Or maybe he didn't, as some are speculating. I'll wait until we know that as a fact, first, before I go any further with that line of thought. I have things to say about it, none of them very nice, if he didn't but I have enough people in this story to fuel my anger and disappointment with at the moment. I'd rather save some of it for later.

 

[DakotaMayi]

Hi guys. I started hanging out in this forum during the Sherin Mathews case but I've never posted. Like all of you, this case has absolutely gutted me. After reading previous posts/threads, particularly some of the comments wondering why the survivors didn't escape sooner or why the authorities didn't intervene earlier, I felt compelled to share my perspective.

To provide the relevant backstory for my feelings about this case: I was raised in a home with pervasive physical and emotional abuse. My father was a well-respected, wealthy medical professional who worked in a mental institution prior to its shutdown, and one of my punishments (by far the most long-term detrimental) was the use of isolation. Using the system similar to the one implemented in the hospital, I was confined to my room- escorted for bathroom breaks, fed intermittently in my room, unable to use the phone/listen to music/etc.- for one week increments, and could "level up" to more freedom- using the bathroom unescorted, allowed a snack, given a CD player with one Christian CD of his choosing- if I didn't "mess up" at any point during the week. This started around Kindergarten, and within a couple of years, the "leveling up" basically ceased. My saving grace was that because my father started using the home for private practice, I was put into public school so I was out of the home during working hours, where I tried desperately to just be "normal".

Here are the things I, personally, think of when I consider the facts of this case. First, DT was an engineer for Northrop Grumman. This is a man who made good money, is well-educated, and would be viewed at first glance as a respectable member of the community. There is still such a pervasive tendency on the part of authorities to automatically believe someone like that. On the couple of occasions I tried to tell someone what was going on, it was ultimately chalked up to "medical professional and pastor" versus "problem child", and I learned quickly that being the "problem" was only going to cost me BIG time. I can't even fathom the level of abuse these precious children could've been returned to. It literally makes me ill to consider it.

Second, this has been said but has to be reiterated, the prison of your mind is the hardest to escape. As an adult, I've been asked NUMEROUS times by people I knew as a child why I didn't just leave. For the reasons listed above, and probably more importantly, because the ways in which isolation, abuse, and family dysfunction affects your view of self can't be understated. And I had 6-ish hours out of the house per day!! These survivors, at a fundamental level, don't know what they're capable of because they don't know who they are. They don't know what human beings are supposed to be like, they don't know what they're supposed to be like in relation to other human beings, they just. Don't. Know. They are on a long and difficult road to maybe never fully understanding, because socialization as a child can't be replicated.

Third, I strongly feel that these types of punishments/abuses are far more common and widespread than people realize. My family are fundamentalist "Christians", and, while my father was extreme and at some level I knew what was happening to me felt wrong, I also truly believed that I DESERVED the punishment, that at some level I was a "problem" child and "extra sinful", and my punishments weren't that far from the norm. Because I knew of other kids just like me. The journal writing these kids were allowed/forced to do? God, that hit home. This was a tactic used in my home, and writing in those journals both kept me going and condemned me. I'm going to tell you right now that I truly believe the situation was the same, where the kids were forced to reflect on whatever they did/whatever "bad" character trait their parents noticed that day (my dad called it "writing essays"), and then punished for their feelings. Again, the thought makes me sick. But these are things other families do. And it's abusive and wrong, but it happens.

Anyway, I'm myself now a married mother who has to go get some little kids ready for school. But even as someone who has experienced just, the tiniest most miniscule taste of being isolated and hurt as a child, I still suffer. I can't send my kids to their room without going in there with them 5 minutes later to sit with them during their time outs so they know I don't hate them. I suffer from horrible social anxiety, and willingly isolate myself as an adult because it's comfortable, despite years of therapy. All the medication in the world doesn't change being a little helpless person behind a locked door all those years ago. My eyes are so full of tears that I can hardly write thinking about those precious kids and what they went through, and what they'll go through every day forever because of the monsters who gave birth to them. The girl who escaped? She's my hero. I don't know if I've ever admired someone more. All of them lived. They're all heroes.

My god, ((camomx4))

You're my hero.

 

[TickettyBoo]

Yes someone did because I remember a fellow student saying they had a potluck in class and he stood next to the table the whole time and ate plate after plate of food.

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this is heartbreaking 🙁

I hope while in prison that their fellow inmates make sure they feel hunger. Neither of them look like they have missed any meals.

 

[Elley Mae]

I'm not judging the neighbor. We don't know who failed. It appears that multiple people and/or organizations failed. If the neighbors reported it, then the organization they contacted failed.

My point is that there were missed opportunities on multiple levels 17 years ago.

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Each instance that we have been able to read sounds odd/bizarre/weird but collectively it is obvious there was something going on. Jmo

 

[JaneEyre]

Technically the rabies vaccination still exists but they're generally more focused on animals that are brought into the state. It hasn't been enforced, however, since it was amended in 2005. In the more populated areas, the bigger cities, it's important to have the certification for safety reasons and to avoid the fines, but not here. Naturally, responsible pet owners do it anyway. We used to have a state law about tags but that was amended as well and now it's up to individual counties to decide what they want to do.

At any rate, I'm still sticking to my refrain from passing judgment on the neighbor. There's a lot of information in the MSM articles to discuss and he's not personally here to answer questions about whether or not he called or to go into depth on why he may or may not have. Maybe he did and it wasn't documented. Maybe he did and the media just hasn't reported on that yet. Or maybe he didn't, as some are speculating. I'll wait until we know that as a fact, first, before I go any further with that line of thought. I have things to say about it, none of them very nice, if he didn't but I have enough people in this story to fuel my anger and disappointment with at the moment. I'd rather save some of it for later.

I'm not passing judgment on the neighbor. We don't know at what level the failure happened - at the individual level or a department level. And he wasn't the only one who had an opportunity to alert authorities /various agencies.

I'm pointing out what agencies could have been reported to and why. I have not ripped into any particular individual or agency because we don't know who knew or did what.

I'm not sure why anyone assumes I am laying blame on any particular person or agency. My posts have been about educating who could be contacted and why in a case like this.

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[Zelda1010]

Hi guys. I started hanging out in this forum during the Sherin Mathews case but I've never posted. Like all of you, this case has absolutely gutted me. After reading previous posts/threads, particularly some of the comments wondering why the survivors didn't escape sooner or why the authorities didn't intervene earlier, I felt compelled to share my perspective.

To provide the relevant backstory for my feelings about this case: I was raised in a home with pervasive physical and emotional abuse. My father was a well-respected, wealthy medical professional who worked in a mental institution prior to its shutdown, and one of my punishments (by far the most long-term detrimental) was the use of isolation. Using the system similar to the one implemented in the hospital, I was confined to my room- escorted for bathroom breaks, fed intermittently in my room, unable to use the phone/listen to music/etc.- for one week increments, and could "level up" to more freedom- using the bathroom unescorted, allowed a snack, given a CD player with one Christian CD of his choosing- if I didn't "mess up" at any point during the week. This started around Kindergarten, and within a couple of years, the "leveling up" basically ceased. My saving grace was that because my father started using the home for private practice, I was put into public school so I was out of the home during working hours, where I tried desperately to just be "normal".

Here are the things I, personally, think of when I consider the facts of this case. First, DT was an engineer for Northrop Grumman. This is a man who made good money, is well-educated, and would be viewed at first glance as a respectable member of the community. There is still such a pervasive tendency on the part of authorities to automatically believe someone like that. On the couple of occasions I tried to tell someone what was going on, it was ultimately chalked up to "medical professional and pastor" versus "problem child", and I learned quickly that being the "problem" was only going to cost me BIG time. I can't even fathom the level of abuse these precious children could've been returned to. It literally makes me ill to consider it.

Second, this has been said but has to be reiterated, the prison of your mind is the hardest to escape. As an adult, I've been asked NUMEROUS times by people I knew as a child why I didn't just leave. For the reasons listed above, and probably more importantly, because the ways in which isolation, abuse, and family dysfunction affects your view of self can't be understated. And I had 6-ish hours out of the house per day!! These survivors, at a fundamental level, don't know what they're capable of because they don't know who they are. They don't know what human beings are supposed to be like, they don't know what they're supposed to be like in relation to other human beings, they just. Don't. Know. They are on a long and difficult road to maybe never fully understanding, because socialization as a child can't be replicated.

Third, I strongly feel that these types of punishments/abuses are far more common and widespread than people realize. My family are fundamentalist "Christians", and, while my father was extreme and at some level I knew what was happening to me felt wrong, I also truly believed that I DESERVED the punishment, that at some level I was a "problem" child and "extra sinful", and my punishments weren't that far from the norm. Because I knew of other kids just like me. The journal writing these kids were allowed/forced to do? God, that hit home. This was a tactic used in my home, and writing in those journals both kept me going and condemned me. I'm going to tell you right now that I truly believe the situation was the same, where the kids were forced to reflect on whatever they did/whatever "bad" character trait their parents noticed that day (my dad called it "writing essays"), and then punished for their feelings. Again, the thought makes me sick. But these are things other families do. And it's abusive and wrong, but it happens.

Anyway, I'm myself now a married mother who has to go get some little kids ready for school. But even as someone who has experienced just, the tiniest most miniscule taste of being isolated and hurt as a child, I still suffer. I can't send my kids to their room without going in there with them 5 minutes later to sit with them during their time outs so they know I don't hate them. I suffer from horrible social anxiety, and willingly isolate myself as an adult because it's comfortable, despite years of therapy. All the medication in the world doesn't change being a little helpless person behind a locked door all those years ago. My eyes are so full of tears that I can hardly write thinking about those precious kids and what they went through, and what they'll go through every day forever because of the monsters who gave birth to them. The girl who escaped? She's my hero. I don't know if I've ever admired someone more. All of them lived. They're all heroes.

You are a survivor and a hero, too. You survived then and now you save your own kids every day. Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[mtnlites]

Yep. I used to live on a horse farm (rented a house there, not my farm or my horses, lol), and it was unbelievable how many times we had thrown-away cats appear at our doorstep (we figured the first cats must have left an invisible bread crumb trail to our door, or left an invisible "they're safe & cat wusses & will feed and help you" sign on that door).

Ha ha, we seem to have that sign on our fence as well. Actually got one of our best dogs that way. Someone abandoned her and we took her in. So many feral cats around...Cats having babies having babies...We don't have a vet in our county but every once in awhile we round up a few of the ferals and take them to the next county over to the spay/neuter clinic in an attempt to cut down on the growing population.

 

[LostOldUserName]

this is heartbreaking 🙁

I hope while in prison that their fellow inmates make sure they feel hunger. Neither of them look like they have missed any meals.

Can't help to think of OITNB, where the Inmate running the kitchen was starving out another inmate.

 

[Zelda1010]

My niece is 26 years old and she would not get out at the hospital! They had my SIL walking the halls at the hospital to help her along. So this was a thing 26 years ago, anyway.

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Ugh to walking the hospital halls. Torture!

I was thinking of women going to public places on or after their due date with the sole purpose being to kick start labor. Seems like that might be a "thing" born of social media. But even if she didn't intend for labor to start, walking around the park could do the trick! And there you'd be giving birth in a CA hospital instead of at home.

 

[enelram]

Can't help to think of OITNB, where the Inmate running the kitchen was starving out another inmate.

Oh I'll bet they get their 'come uppance' while in jail. they say that jail/prison inmates don't take kindly to child abusers.

 

[AlayneStone]

Hi guys. I started hanging out in this forum during the Sherin Mathews case but I've never posted. Like all of you, this case has absolutely gutted me. After reading previous posts/threads, particularly some of the comments wondering why the survivors didn't escape sooner or why the authorities didn't intervene earlier, I felt compelled to share my perspective.

To provide the relevant backstory for my feelings about this case: I was raised in a home with pervasive physical and emotional abuse. My father was a well-respected, wealthy medical professional who worked in a mental institution prior to its shutdown, and one of my punishments (by far the most long-term detrimental) was the use of isolation. Using the system similar to the one implemented in the hospital, I was confined to my room- escorted for bathroom breaks, fed intermittently in my room, unable to use the phone/listen to music/etc.- for one week increments, and could "level up" to more freedom- using the bathroom unescorted, allowed a snack, given a CD player with one Christian CD of his choosing- if I didn't "mess up" at any point during the week. This started around Kindergarten, and within a couple of years, the "leveling up" basically ceased. My saving grace was that because my father started using the home for private practice, I was put into public school so I was out of the home during working hours, where I tried desperately to just be "normal".

Here are the things I, personally, think of when I consider the facts of this case. First, DT was an engineer for Northrop Grumman. This is a man who made good money, is well-educated, and would be viewed at first glance as a respectable member of the community. There is still such a pervasive tendency on the part of authorities to automatically believe someone like that. On the couple of occasions I tried to tell someone what was going on, it was ultimately chalked up to "medical professional and pastor" versus "problem child", and I learned quickly that being the "problem" was only going to cost me BIG time. I can't even fathom the level of abuse these precious children could've been returned to. It literally makes me ill to consider it.

Second, this has been said but has to be reiterated, the prison of your mind is the hardest to escape. As an adult, I've been asked NUMEROUS times by people I knew as a child why I didn't just leave. For the reasons listed above, and probably more importantly, because the ways in which isolation, abuse, and family dysfunction affects your view of self can't be understated. And I had 6-ish hours out of the house per day!! These survivors, at a fundamental level, don't know what they're capable of because they don't know who they are. They don't know what human beings are supposed to be like, they don't know what they're supposed to be like in relation to other human beings, they just. Don't. Know. They are on a long and difficult road to maybe never fully understanding, because socialization as a child can't be replicated.

Third, I strongly feel that these types of punishments/abuses are far more common and widespread than people realize. My family are fundamentalist "Christians", and, while my father was extreme and at some level I knew what was happening to me felt wrong, I also truly believed that I DESERVED the punishment, that at some level I was a "problem" child and "extra sinful", and my punishments weren't that far from the norm. Because I knew of other kids just like me. The journal writing these kids were allowed/forced to do? God, that hit home. This was a tactic used in my home, and writing in those journals both kept me going and condemned me. I'm going to tell you right now that I truly believe the situation was the same, where the kids were forced to reflect on whatever they did/whatever "bad" character trait their parents noticed that day (my dad called it "writing essays"), and then punished for their feelings. Again, the thought makes me sick. But these are things other families do. And it's abusive and wrong, but it happens.

Anyway, I'm myself now a married mother who has to go get some little kids ready for school. But even as someone who has experienced just, the tiniest most miniscule taste of being isolated and hurt as a child, I still suffer. I can't send my kids to their room without going in there with them 5 minutes later to sit with them during their time outs so they know I don't hate them. I suffer from horrible social anxiety, and willingly isolate myself as an adult because it's comfortable, despite years of therapy. All the medication in the world doesn't change being a little helpless person behind a locked door all those years ago. My eyes are so full of tears that I can hardly write thinking about those precious kids and what they went through, and what they'll go through every day forever because of the monsters who gave birth to them. The girl who escaped? She's my hero. I don't know if I've ever admired someone more. All of them lived. They're all heroes.

(Bolding is by me)

You are a hero too, CaMomx4 - for escaping, and for making the decision to break the cycle of abuse with your children. Your kids will know a happy, normal childhood thanks to you.

I bolded part of your post because that is something that can't be emphasized enough: child abuse goes on in "respectable" professional families, "people like us," and it's overlooked for that same reason. People who are working class, darker skinned, visibly poor, etc. are often suspected of abuse when there is none; likewise, families with money and whose parent(s) have professional careers are given the benefit of the doubt, and it's the children in these families who are assumed to be troublemakers, not grateful for what they have, and so on.

DT was an engineer; LT a homemaker, so outsiders and even authorities might have just seen Ozzie and Harriet albeit with more kids. College-educated, professional, suburban, "nice" etc. etc. families are absolutely given the benefit of the doubt. So I wouldn't be surprised if much of the lackadaisical response of outsiders and authorities and even family members until now was tied up with that. If the Turpins were poor, and even more if they were poor and not white, there would have been a lot more scrutiny, I am sure.

There is a book about abuse in upscale families - it is mostly about spouse abuse but I think it is applicable to child abuse: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/343202.Not_To_People_Like_Us called Not To People Like Us by Susan Weitzman; I think it has a lot to apply to situations like this.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I wouldn't admit that I had done that and alerted NOBODY. Obviously those kids were in danger.

Respectfully I don't think it was obvious anyone was in danger or many in multiple towns and states failed them. When now people are shocked. Even the Community College comments reflect as much. Since Spring semester 2017 if I am understanding last attending, maybe that's when things really started going off more. Jmho

 

[enelram]

http://jimspub.riversidesheriff.org/cgi-bin/iisinfo.acu?bkno=201801856P

 

[enelram]

http://jimspub.riversidesheriff.org/cgi-bin/iisinfo.acu?bkno=201801857P