Gun Control Debate #1

[kimlynn]

*BAD PUN ALERT*

It's driving me up the wall!

:drumroll:

Yeah...I'm really confused or so I hear.lol

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

So you envision we will all be like the wild wild west. Holed up and shooting at our (dare I say) imaginary enemies.

You have to know your **world** history.

Did you know that there was a time in Moscow whereby the ruling powers ordered the Russian soldiers to shoot upon their own citizens? Interestingly, the soldiers turned their guns against the rulers!

And then there was this other time in Germany......

 

[Karinna]

It started out with a comment about automatic weapons that never existed. Funny how people get confused.

It was a semi auto in this case wasn't it?

 

[RANCH]

Please read the links attached ... there are TOS limits to how much of an article we can post

I did. Why is it so hard for people to answer a simple question. I would like to know specifically what these high school students want in regards to gun control?

 

[TooCurious]

So you envision we will all be like the wild wild west. Holed up and shooting at our (dare I say) imaginary enemies.

If you would read up on what has been going on the USA that last several years you may get a little worried. The enemy is real. Our government thinks we are sheep to be fleeced at will. What did we learn from Snowden? Our government monitors us more than any other nation in the world. I realize you are not a Republican and I am not starting a political argument here but there was a very real attempt by those in our government to try and fix an election. That is scary. It's all right there, the whole collusion story was made up. It was a backup plan in case Trump was elected. The dossier, it was all faked and taken to a judge and people were placed under surveillance with it. You are in that world and you many not want to believe it hut the only thing that stand between you and a government gone wild is the amount of guns on the street.
No one will ever talk about confiscation. Small rules and regulations will continue to be passed until the core of gun ownership is whittled down to a susceptible level and then confiscation will occur.

 

[kimlynn]

My take is if someone is determined enough to inflict such violence on innocent people they will find a way no matter what they use, IMO.

This is true. But going back to my question... why make weapons that make it easier for killers to kill many people in seconds or minutes
We can't stop all killing but we can try to prevent as many as possible.

 

[RANCH]

It was a semi auto in this case wasn't it?

If "this" case is the Florida high school shooting the answer is yes. You get an A+

 

[2Hope4]

I think in some individuals there can be a major difference in maturity between 18 and 21. This measure could possibly prevent people younger than 21 being able to bring a gun to school or higher education.

There's a slight problem with that. At 18yrs old, you can join the military, be sent to war, where shooting guns at people is your job. I don't see our govt changing the age to join the military to 21. It still makes no sense to me why our age of alcohol consumption or buying is 21 when again, at 18 you can sign your life to the govt. willing to risk your life. Either people are mature enough to make life decisions at 18 or they aren't. But...thus it stands.

 

[kaen]

I

I will not take these kids advice on gun control. They don't know what their talking about.

RSBM. Interestingly enough, these kids sat in a room with an assault rifling being fired on them. I think they do know what they are talking about more so than anyone can know. Maybe someone has trained an assault weapon on you? Then, you are in the same boat as they are. They are demanding change for safety---including better mental health availability, controlling semi-automatic weapons, increased school security with funding, and for all the "adults" in the government to stop screwing around in order to get something done. Makes sense to me.

ALL INCREDIBLY GRAPHIC AND HORRIFYING-----DON'T WATCH IF YOU DON"T WANT TO BE UPSET--
If you want to know what it is to be in a room with a semi-automatic gun trained on you, watch this graphic horrific video from Parkland. It was shared by a student. You see dead people as the SWAT team is clearing the injured before they clear the rest of the living student after the shootings. There is terror. https://www.facebook.com/xavier.truestory/posts/10208927223696621?pnref=story

This is video when the classroom was being shot up and their peers being killed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEKf1qdCFk0 (from the Guardian)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j7-WFa2AJM (from CNN)
I think this qualifies them to have an opinion and their concerns taken seriously.

 

[kimlynn]

If you would read up on what has been going on the USA that last several years you may get a little worried. The enemy is real. Our government thinks we are sheep to be fleeced at will. What did we learn from Snowden? Our government monitors us more than any other nation in the world. I realize you are not a Republican and I am not starting a political argument here but there was a very real attempt by those in our government to try and fix an election. That is scary. It's all right there, the whole collusion story was made up. It was a backup plan in case Trump was elected. The dossier, it was all faked and taken to a judge and people were placed under surveillance with it. You are in that world and you many not want to believe it hut the only thing that stand between you and a government gone wild is the amount of guns on the street.
No one will ever talk about confiscation. Small rules and regulations will continue to be passed until the core of gun ownership is whittled down to a susceptible level and then confiscation will occur.

That sounds to me to be a very fearful way to live. I'm aware of some of what you have posted but to my way of thinking there is or has to a better way to deal with it than killing each other. IMO

 

[RANCH]

RSBM. Interestingly enough, these kids sat in a room with an assault rifling being fired on them. I think they do know what they are talking about more so than anyone can know. They are demanding change for safety---including better mental health availability, controlling semi-automatic weapons, increased school security with funding, and for all the "adults" in the government to stop screwing around in order to get something done. Makes sense to me.

I stand by my post.

I respect these kids and feel for them in what has to be a very emotional time.

That doesn't mean they are in a postilion to dictate gun control policy.

 

[Karinna]

This is true. But going back to my question... why make weapons that make it easier for killers to kill many people in seconds or minutes
We can't stop all killing but we can try to prevent as many as possible.

I definitely wouldn't want or need such a weapon and can't really see any sense in it, but other people probably feel differently.

 

[Betty P]

Copying these over from the Florida mass shooting page.

Good for the kids! I hope they keep up the pressure. They're well informed and certainly more objective than a bunch of highly paid industry lobbyists and campaign donors.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Those are important questions, imo.

Studies have shown that the appeal is that they're so readily available, and they're deadly. If you're (figuratively speaking!!) depressed and own a firearm, you're far more likely to die in a completed suicide attempt. More guns = more opportunities to use them.

It just underscores the need for common-sense gun safety measures. It's beyond time, imo.

Most attacks do not involve mental illness. But some undoubtedly do. Most gun violence perpetrators, if they don't shoot and kill themselves, are deemed legally mentally sound.

In America, those with mental illness are more likely to be victims of gun violence than perpetrators of it.

"Federal and state gun reporting laws should be based on these identified traits, not mental illness."

Yes that's true, and firearms are more accessible and easier to do a lot more damage than a vehicle if entering a building or other venue.
So the issue is really "why do people want to kill other people?" the way i see it. What brings about the need for that in the first place? We have to root out the problem from it's base. I'm not talking about any self defense issue if the need arises either. But what makes killing so appealable as any type of problem solver? And don't most of these types of attacks involve mental illness in the perpetrators of the violent acts upon others?

 

[RANCH]

Good for the kids! I hope they keep up the pressure. They're well informed and certainly more objective than a bunch of highly paid industry lobbyists and campaign donors.

Yea. All the politicians are going to tell the lobbyists and donors to keep their money because some high school kids are protesting for some undefined gun control and they have to do what they say. LOL

 

[Karinna]

There's a slight problem with that. At 18yrs old, you can join the military, be sent to war, where shooting guns at people is your job. I don't see our govt changing the age to join the military to 21. It still makes no sense to me why our age of alcohol consumption or buying is 21 when again, at 18 you can sign your life to the govt. willing to risk your life. Either people are mature enough to make life decisions at 18 or they aren't. But...thus it stands.

I agree, it doesn't make sense. Anything with the word "teen" after it means someone is still a teenager up to the age of at least 20, IMO.

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,

So far the thread has not melted down. This makes me very happy.

Please remember it is not up to members to tell other members how to post. You can scroll and roll or you can alert if you see something against our terms of service.

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[Karinna]

That sounds to me to be a very fearful way to live. I'm aware of some of what you have posted but to my way of thinking there is or has to a better way to deal with it than killing each other. IMO

Agree, and until we have a zero tolerance for killing in this world it will just sadly be ongoing.

 

[Betty P]

Thanks for the link . How do you propose to remove all of the guns in the United States?

IIRC, Australia was successful with a strong gun buy back program. Pay people to turn in their guns. Give them a tax break, etc.

I favor returning to our old laws regulating the amount of ammunition people are allowed to purchase. Also prohibit large ammo clips - IIRC the old regulations limited them to 10 or fewer bullets/shells whatever. I'm also so old that I remember when there was a nationwide ban on armor piercing bullets - possession, sale, manufacture, importation.

Another great idea is to require gun owners to license their weapons and purchase insurance, just as you would car insurance.

Lots of good ideas out there, most of which were in place and worked well years ago.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Sort of. You still have to be 21 to buy a handgun in Florida, and there's a waiting period. Must be at least 18 to buy AR-15 style rifles in Florida, and no waiting period.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/ar15-mass-shootings-guns.html

There's a slight problem with that. At 18yrs old, you can join the military, be sent to war, where shooting guns at people is your job. I don't see our govt changing the age to join the military to 21. It still makes no sense to me why our age of alcohol consumption or buying is 21 when again, at 18 you can sign your life to the govt. willing to risk your life. Either people are mature enough to make life decisions at 18 or they aren't. But...thus it stands.