Gun Control Debate #2

[Tillicum]

#askaTeacher.
There is a teacher contributing to this discussion. she has made some very clear and simple points.
Anybody could understand them.
The NRA propaganda rhetoric has been outargued a million times.
I'm reluctant to bring the discussion back to banning all guns but I really see no other way forward.
The good-guy-with-the-gun is about as useful in a school teacher situation unless it's an uzi at least and he's behind the shooter.

There's another teacher contributing to this discussion as well but some of you don't want to listen to my opinion.

 

[Tillicum]

are you aware that the only 'armed personnel' at the school at the same time as the killer was the deputy who did not enter and has resigned?
The shooter had already left by the time the others got there.
See Broward Sheriff dept for full statement.

Are you aware that the others hid behind their cars while students and teachers were bleeding out inside?

 

[Safeguard]

The questions are not being evaded actually.
They are all being answered, truthfully, and by the sheriff's dept.
See CNN or the Broward Sheriff facebook or twitter handle for the answers.

What HAS happened, however, is that the lunatic fringe has once again got the rumor mill going, planted fake stories, fake vids and downright lies, hacked accounts and hurt as many people as possible in the process while google et al are claiming helplessness in the wake of this further desecration.

The facts ARE there, they CAN be found.

Each state has different protocols for dealing with such an event.

The protocol in Florida is to go in, not wait, kill the shooter and end the threat.

He waited.

He broke protocol.
He has resigned and the investigation is ongoing.

Imo sherif Broward is a lunatic. And it is his own statements that are head scratching. Why not just state that protocol wasn't followed? Why add that what he saw nauseated and sickened him?

If the man froze, how would that be nauseating? Not the best response, but show us the tape, so that we can see what was so absolutely revolting.

 

[kittythehare]

Are you aware that the others hid behind their cars while students and teachers were bleeding out inside?

I'm aware that that is a lie, actually.

 

[kittythehare]

Imo sherif Broward is a lunatic. And it is his own statements that are head scratching. Why not just state that protocol wasn't followed? Why add that what he saw nauseated and sickened him?

If the man froze, how would that be nauseating? Not the best response, but show us the tape, so that we can see what was so absolutely revolting.

he kept an entire nation calm with his frequent timely reports to the general public.
compare that to the lVPD foul up after foul up.
I know the NRA will put forward your view but there are no facts to back it p.
Like all investigations it is being investigated and he is not investigating hmself and when the cCTV is released by the investigators it will show a single cop, the one who was suspended/resigned behind a pole.
It is nauseating because he attended the annual proscribed training courses and he knew his role was to go in there and stop the shooting.
Poor dude froze (washington post) apparently, and it is unlikely he would have come out live had he actually followed protocols.

If you want further info, Jake Trapper State of Nation interviewed the broward Sheriff early yesterday and I have already posted his statement.

 

[Safeguard]

I'm aware that that is a lie, actually.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html
"other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school."

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I'm aware that that is a lie, actually.

Florida school shooting: Coral Springs police upset at some Broward deputies for not entering school

https://www.abc2news.com/news/natio...eputies-for-not-entering-school?autoplay=true

When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on Feb. 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.

 

[Tillicum]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html
"other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school."

From your link

The resentment among Coral Springs officials toward Broward County officials about what they perceived to be a dereliction of duty may have reached a boiling point at a vigil the night of February 15, where, in front of dozens of others, Coral Springs City Manager Mike Goodrum confronted Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel. A source familiar with the conversation tells CNN that Goodrum was upset that the Broward deputies had remained outside the school while kids inside could have been bleeding out, among other reasons.

 

[kittythehare]

Florida school shooting: Coral Springs police upset at some Broward deputies for not entering school

https://www.abc2news.com/news/natio...eputies-for-not-entering-school?autoplay=true

When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on Feb. 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff's Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.

Dated Feb 23rd. Broward Sheriff statement came 2 days ago and with a tight timeline.
ABC has gotten it wrong before.

 

[kittythehare]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html
"other Broward County Sheriff's deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school."

Predates most recent info. Did you read his statement?

 

[Safeguard]

I think sherif Broward moved swiftly to deeply condem the guard, in order to distance himself from the man's actions to lesson his own responsibility for oversite. Fail.

 

[kittythehare]

I think sherif Broward moved swiftly to deeply condem the guard, in order to distance himself from the man's actions to lesson his own responsibility for oversite. Fail.

It matters nothing what you think.
It matters nothing what I think.
But the facts are contained within his statement.
His statement is here
https://app.box.com/s/wsur9w49yyr1rxpgdsjvfslbcpyulggw

The shooter had left the building by the time the Coral Springs police arrived.
These things happen fast..

Again this discussion is about gun control in general, not specifically school shootings.
I believe we have discussed and rehashed every aspect of school shootings but we're not talking about over 21's with guns who are killing people on a daily and hourly basis.
why do we not want to talk about Chicago, for example?

 

[kittythehare]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43193222

The US National Rifle Association (NRA) has said it does not support any gun ban following a shooting in a Florida school that left 17 people dead.

Andrew Pollack, whose daughter Meadow died in last week's attack - the second-deadliest shooting at a US public school - said: "We, as a country, failed our children."
"It should've been one school shooting and we should've fixed it," he went on to say. "And I'm pissed. It's my daughter I'm not going to see again."


Mark Barden - whose son Daniel was killed in the 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut - said more guns was not the answer.
"Schoolteachers have more than enough responsibilities right now, than to have to have the awesome responsibility of lethal force to take a life," he said.

 

[human]

There are teachers now that CC and would be willing to undergo extra training to CC on school grounds. Nobody is asking or expecting this of teachers just the teachers that are willing and highly trained. IMO

I don’t understand how this would work. What are the children doing while the teacher is being Rambo?

 

[kittythehare]

I don’t understand how this would work. What are the children doing while the teacher is being Rambo?

Mass panic.. possibly following teacher and placing themselves directly in line of fire. It is a ridiculous notion.

 

[human]

I'd prefer to be standing behind a 'good guy with a gun' rather than waiting on LE to come and save me.

The guy with the assault rifle has the feature of tumbling. As the bullets travel through the guy in front of you, they will now tumble through you shredding everything as they go through your body. Your organs that are hit no longer exist. You are dead.

 

[human]

Random 2am thoughts from across the pond:

Wouldnt it just be better to stop guns getting in to schools in the first place? Ban school bags, make kids walk through metal detectors?

How did this ex student get into the building? Would finger print technology help? Only allow current students in with an option to deactivate any user ?

Could school staff use a taser instead of a gun, in a worst case scenario? I appreciate events must unfold very rapidly but it’s just a thought. I feel sick at the thought of armed teachers.

Are there ever weapon amnesties in the USA? I know we have occasional ones here where you can hand in any weapons (mainly knives) no questions asked. These tend to be pretty successful.

I’m sure this last rambling has been addressed, but for what legitimate reasons might an ordinary civilian have need for an semi/automatic weapon?

Sorry for any typos and for such disconnected questions, I’m so tired I can barely read!

There is no reason for a civilian or anyone to have an assault rifle. The bullets tumble which means when they go into a person, they shred everything. They should be outlawed in the Geneva convention, I don’t know why they are not except $$$$$$$

 

[kittythehare]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/25/business/gun-show-tampa-parkland.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Here we go again- fear *advertiser censored* at the helm, common sense out the window..


Inside, parents pushed their babies in strollers past T-shirts emblazoned with phrases like “I study triggernometry.” A nonprofit group in one booth was raffling off a rifle to raise money to battle child and animal abuse. On large signs by the entrance, the National Rifle Association was offering refunds on the $11 admission if shoppers signed up for a membership. Outside, Girl Scouts were selling cookies.

And there, on many tables, were racks of AR-15s — variations of the hugely popular semiautomatic rifle used by the 19-year-old Parkland gunman.

A common refrain among buyers and sellers at the Tampa show was not to blame guns in the Parkland shooting. Instead, they argued, crack down on violent video games. Fix broken families. Bolster mental health screenings. Rely less on government protection.

Juanita Stafford and her husband, Tommy, bought bullet-resistant backpack plates for their eight school-age grandchildren in Florida and Alabama. They received a bulk discount off the $199 price a pad.

I feel like crying...

 

[human]

Here you go. A nice birthday gift?

http://www.businessinsider.com/bulletproof-blanket-for-kids-during-school-shootings-2015-12

If mass shootings weren't such an integrated part of our culture, you'd think The Bodyguard Blanket was an SNL skit or an Onion article. Kids are being gunned down in their 1st grade classrooms, but what can we do? No we're not talking about gun laws, just arm your children with these bulletproof shields!

 

[killer Chaser]

The AR-15 is what the Second Amendment is all about!!! https://www.nationalschoolshield.org/news-media/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evEg1VNfX3o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIERPxPnHGk https://www.facebook.com/notes/gun-...-guns-save-lives/29695674542/?hc_location=ufi