Gun Control Debate #4

[flourish]

In case you are wondering I have lost my mind.

Rather than spend hours trying to remove posts in varies discussion that discuss the gun debate I thought I would give this a try just this once.

The reason I have kept the gun control debate off Websleuths is that people will lose their minds. Sorry not trying to say I don't have faith in you. I am saying I don't have faith in some of you.

All OF WEBSLEUTHS RULES APPLY.

No name calling,
No rudeness
Mainstream media and respected journals, websites only. No crazy right or left wing sites.

This is like any other topic on Websleuths.

If someone could please make a post with the links to the demonstrations coming up that would be a good way to start.

I will be watching this thread all through the evening.

Full disclosure. In my opinion, it is obscene that we have automatic weapons available. period. However, I believe that Government will never have the courage to do the right thing and stop taking money from the NRA and start getting these weapons out of the hands of angry people. Therefore it is up to us to try and stop creating the kids who are so angry they feel killing is the only way. We keep waiting on the powers that be to do something and more and more innocents are killed. No more waiting. Let's pinpoint who these kids are and take them out of society, preferably via a mental health facility, and stop the carnage before one more AR-15 or any other assault rifle is picked up by the hands of a potential killer.

Go for it.

Tricia

Thread #1
Thread #2
Thread #3

B.u.m.p.

 

[rsd1200]

Rsd1200, I appreciate you contributions here, but I feel they are being wasted sadly.
It's hard to take seriously, a debate forum, where posters post such illuminating insights as inferring,

"Gun owners are Scaredy Cats, but not Meeeeee!" Uhhggg.

I popped in to see how it was going but I should have known... :/

Thanks Safeguard. I thought it was going to be like a think tank to merge ideas to take to our Congressmen, school boards, etc.. It ended up like this. Eyes Wide Open. We are hated for exercising our 2A as law abiding, responsible citizens, who are also seeking change. I chatted with my veteran friend tonight. I'd decided to screenshot, then use the blur tool to cover identifying info. After the recent remarks, that even drill it down to women, Im not going to put my friend's ideas out here to have mud slung at someone's thoughts, who honorably served their country. I had two more vet friends I was going to contact. Not going to waste my time nor theirs.

 

[flourish]

For the NRA, ‘freedom’ means being heavily armed and scared to death

If we outfit teachers with concealed handguns, will the NRA say after the next shooting that school officials must match the firepower of would-be killers? Are we morally required to stock schools with AR-15s?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...eans-being-heavily-armed-and-scared-to-death/

 

[Jennifer17]

They were all huddled in a corner with an un-armed teacher... Imagine that indeed. Duck your heads kids, there's nothing I can do..

Your solution is arming teachers?

 

[Jennifer17]

You know, in the title of this thread is 'debate'. That means that there are two sides. You argue your side and they argue theirs. I think that this debate has been very free from drama given the subject matter.

 

[Safeguard]

Thanks Safeguard. I thought it was going to be like a think tank to merge ideas to take to our Congressmen, school boards, etc.. It ended up like this. Eyes Wide Open. We are hated for exercising our 2A as law abiding, responsible citizens, who are also seeking change. I chatted with my veteran friend tonight. I'd decided to screenshot, then use the blur tool to cover identifying info. After the recent remarks, that even drill it down to women, Im not going to put my friend's ideas out here to have mud slung at someone's thoughts, who honorably served their country. I had two more vet friends I was going to contact. Not going to waste my time nor theirs.

A "Think Tank" forum would be awesome! Agree with you about not mudding the reputation of those vets. I love *hearing* your remembrances. You're a good writer... There are other forums where your talents would be better served imo. Some forums actually do have rational discourse between posters on all sides of the issue, who really do want to find solutions, not just find fault with others...

 

[rsd1200]

They were all huddled in a corner with an un-armed teacher... Imagine that indeed. Duck your heads kids, there's nothing I can do..

I may disagree with someone but I do know the way "debate" works. Debate is a formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward. Not just, That's your idea?? tossed back with nothing to offer. This thread is not a debate thread. I'm not super comfortable with teachers being armed. I've had some nutty teachers who could barely control their classrooms, or would get ticked and throw books. If there were maybe plainclothes, trained, security guards, I'd feel better about that. Inside the schools. Also I'd like to see cameras in all the halls, and a security staff watching them. That way they could get on an intercom and state where the shooter is at, and give the classes closest to the shooter a chance to shunt the door. Those JustinKase door guards have been ordered for every school in one of the grandkid's county.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

The NRA Has Granted Schools Over $7 Million. Florida’s Broward County Just Turned the Money Away

http://time.com/5193263/nra-school-grants/

The National Rifle Association has given more than $7 million in grants to hundreds of U.S. schools in recent years, according to an Associated Press analysis, but few have shown any indication that they’ll follow the lead of businesses that are cutting ties with the group following last month’s massacre at a Florida high school.

The AP analysis of the NRA Foundation’s public tax records finds that about 500 schools received more than $7.3 million from 2010 through 2016, mostly through competitive grants meant to promote shooting sports. The grants have gone to a wide array of school programs, including the Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps, rifle teams, hunting safety courses and agriculture clubs.

In Massachusetts, for example, known for its strict gun laws, no schools have received NRA grants since 2010, tax records show. Terry Ryan, a school board member in the Westford district northwest of Boston, says a local teacher considered applying for a grant in 2014, but the district ultimately didn’t pursue it.

“We were not interested in any way, shape or form endorsing the NRA or its philosophy,” Ryan said in an interview.

By contrast, parent Jana Cox in Louisiana’s Caddo Parish says few in the area would have a problem with the $24,000 in NRA grants that have gone to school JROTC programs.

“Everybody here has guns,” Cox said. “This is north Louisiana. You’ve got a lot of hunters and you’ve got a lot of guns.”

 

[rsd1200]

A "Think Tank" forum would be awesome! Agree with you about not mudding the reputation of those vets. I love *hearing* your remembrances. You're a good writer... There are other forums where your talents would be better served imo. Some forums actually do have rational discourse between posters on all sides of the issue, who really do want to find solutions, not just find fault with others...

Thanks Safeguard. I used to be a writer/researcher/geek in my old life. I think this is my last night here. Hate never solves anything. Come join us on the Rhoden thread, we need fresh view and new eyes.

 

[Safeguard]

I'm not for arming all classroom teachers, just those who carry responsibly already. Imo, school administrators know who the loose cannons, on staff are although they would never admit that to a parent, ( dealt with various school systems for over 30 years now, not a fan really). You don't need to arm all teachers... I like the idea of staffed camera monitors... I alway wondered how come no one was watching specifically, for NC. They knew he was trouble, and had just shown him the exit, so to speak...

 

[Karinna]

Absolutely agree Karinna. That is the reasonable conclusion, but this same small group of displaced Polivent, (Mean Girl Bullies) posters were never swayed by logic IMO. ( Go read some of the vitriol on the closed PV forums to see what I mean!).

I did participate there a little bit, but was too much for me after a while, haha. I think they say Politics & Religion are very heated subjects to discuss and i agree.
I got a dressing down by my sil on the weekend about religion, Not going there anymore with her, LOL.

 

[Karinna]

Some things may slow them down, but, it they'll find a way. Btw, I've meant to tell you, I like the signature, Free Leonard Peltier!

Thanks rsd, and definitely agree. If someone is mentally unstable because no person in their right mind would commit such an act to be shooting innocent people, IMO.

 

[rsd1200]

I'm not for arming all classroom teachers, just those who carry responsibly already. Imo, school administrators
knows who the loose cannons, on staff are although they would never admit that to a parent, ( dealt with various school systems for over 30 years now, not a fan really). You don't need to arm all teachers... I like the idea of staffed camera monitors... I alway wondered how come no one was watching specifically, for NC. they knew he was truouble, and had just shown him the exit, so to speak...

He'd been expelled for at least a year. I think that was the fly in the ointment. He also dressed in his ROTC uni which helped him to blend. He was adept with his firearm and had a year to stew on this.

I think that our state is going to allow teachers to carry if they want. I don't think too many want the responsibility. My sib is a teacher and he's got the little ones and it's usually quite a job just ensuring they stand in a line. Our state is cutting so much of the school funds that they're kinda mad b/c they want to know why some of our schools are barely keeping lights on, and are trying to cut teacher's pensions, so our school systems are kinda rocky right now.

 

[Safeguard]

Thanks Safeguard. I used to be a writer/researcher/geek in my old life. I think this is my last night here. Hate never solves anything. Come join us on the Rhoden thread, we need fresh view and new eyes.

Well said. Nor does sarcastic belittling, or condescending airs of moral superiority...

I'll check in on the Rhoden situation again, it's been a long time. There nothing more to add to this topic. See you around...

 

[Karinna]

I read something the other day about "copycat crimes" with these type shootings and thought it interesting. They do seem to come in spates like a domino type effect.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I'm not for arming all classroom teachers, just those who carry responsibly already. Imo, school administrators know who the loose cannons, on staff are although they would never admit that to a parent, ( dealt with various school systems for over 30 years now, not a fan really). You don't need to arm all teachers... I like the idea of staffed camera monitors... I alway wondered how come no one was watching specifically, for NC. They knew he was trouble, and had just shown him the exit, so to speak...

I agree with arming teachers following similar guidelines set forth by schools in Fayetteville, Texas.

Fayetteville ISD OK's concealed handguns on campus for 'Guardian' teachers

http://www.kvue.com/article/news/lo...on-campus-for-guardian-teachers/269-523626544

Harvey said their goal was not to create vigilante teachers who would take unnecessary risks and escalate situations. Rather, this program was meant to be used in addition to their normal lockdown procedure but give certain teachers and staff an opportunity to fight back in the worst of situations.

"The Guardians will be staff members who have passed each of the following requirements (and more):

1. Hand-selected staff members

2. Must have their License to Carry permit (LTC).

3. Must pass a psychological exam just like local law enforcement

4. Must qualify annually with the specific handgun they will carry.

5. Must be on the random drug testing list and pass all tests.

7. Must be trained in tactics for denying an intruder entry into a classroom or facility.

8. Must be approved by the school board."

Harvey added that "Guardians" will all be volunteers. There will be no requirement that any staff member or teacher be a part of this program.

 

[Karinna]

Here's an article
(quote)
The Media Needs to Stop Inspiring Copycat Murders. Here's How
After a wave of teen suicides in the 1980s, news outlets began reporting on these deaths more cautiously. Similar guidelines could help prevent more shooting sprees.
https://www.theatlantic.com/nationa...p-inspiring-copycat-murders-heres-how/266439/

 

[rsd1200]

I did participate there a little bit, but was too much for me after a while, haha. I think they say Politics & Religion are very heated subjects to discuss and i agree.
I got a dressing down by my sil on the weekend about religion, Not going there anymore with her, LOL.

If you have a couple snorts and run across a funny, political or other hotbed topic, meme, and alcohol says, That's so funny, you should post that!!!!! Do not listen to alcohol. Do. Not. Listen. I had to go to the hospital in the middle of the night back a bit ago and they had to give me something in my vein through a drip line. I was just higher'n a kite and posted all kinds of stuff. The next day after getting home and looking, I deleted everything and told my husband to take my phone away from me next time.

 

[Safeguard]

We are supposed to get 10-25 inches of snow here in the Boston area today...

I do remember reading that Kar, that particularly the two weeks following a mass shooting was a dangerous time oeriod...
I've been up late keeping an eye on the storm, but nothing yet. Trying type by candle light Hahaha, forgive my poor form. ( We have power, I just like candles at night!).

 

[rsd1200]

Here's an article
(quote)
The Media Needs to Stop Inspiring Copycat Murders. Here's How
After a wave of teen suicides in the 1980s, news outlets began reporting on these deaths more cautiously. Similar guidelines could help prevent more shooting sprees.
https://www.theatlantic.com/nationa...p-inspiring-copycat-murders-heres-how/266439/

100% agree and I've not even read the article. YouTube needs to take down every columbine video that is on there. Every single one. I don't care why it is on there. No more showing clips of them in those trench coats with that Tec9 slung over his shoulder just taking their time. No cops went in there for 47 minutes, but were there within 5 minutes, iirc. They still have the actual video of the two shooters in that school, tossing bombs.