Rebecca Zahau Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #3

[stmarysmead]

And notice that those who do not support the suicide narrative also believe that Max’s case was not properly investigated. They don’t have a problem with SDSO’s handling of Rebecca’s bizarre death, but they do have a problem with SDSO’s handling of Max’s death (or was it Coronado police that handled Max’s death? Either way, it is bewildering.)

Ive never maintained that mistakes weren’t made. I just don’t understand how this “unaccomplished” ( as he was called here) tugboat captain became a world class assassin capable of removing every trace of himself while committing a very elaborate and complicated murder?

It defies logic. The same questions you pose...why would RZ commit suicide in this bizarre fashion...could be turned right around. Knowing he was the only person in the compound besides RZ...why such a complicated multifaceted crime. After all, the more things he did, the more he’d magically have to remove evidencevof himself and leave hers.

Not only does he have to be a mastermind...I’d like to see a demonstration in the courtroom of Mr. Greer removing JUST his dna from numerous objects...while preserving the judges DNA.

Every theory requires this “unaccomplished” man to accomplish amazing feats to obstruct the science of fingerprinting and DNA Collection...all learning ON the “job”...in ONE night...as he rapes and murders. In adddition, he must have accomplices among the investigators...either by a payoff or incompterence.

Sorry...as strange as the suicide is...this murder theory is way too convoluted and bizarre IMO.

 

[Harmony 2]

Stop accusing law enforcement of collusion and of being accessories to murder after the fact.

 

[NotAtAll]

Wonderful post. BBM -- regarding emotion, you have absolutely nailed it. When you take a logical look at everything currently known, it's very clear that there is no suicide and AS is responsible for this death. The only emotion that really comes into it is that we are emotional/passionate about not letting a miscarriage of justice stand. And this has been an egregious miscarriage of justice from the start.

Thanks, Verboten. You understood EXACTLY the point I was trying to convey. This has most definitely been an egregious miscarriage of justice from the start, as you stated. I'm hoping that once deliberations begin, the jury will make the right decision. They're actually in a position to use their voices to speak loud and clear for RZ. I hope they do so.

 

[BBL]

AS didn't have to remove DNA... he just didn't have to leave it. Hence gloves. Where he did leave it, it was wiped off and NO prints were found (as in the door knobs, door). Where his DNA should be and isn't (like her skin, mouth) means thathe is lying and that is why I think he is stone cold guilty. IMO of course.

 

[stmarysmead]

AS didn't have to remove DNA... he just didn't have to leave it. Hence gloves. Where he did leave it, it was wiped off and NO prints were found (as in the door knobs, door). Where his DNA should be and isn't (like her skin, mouth) means thathe is lying and that is why I think he is stone cold guilty. IMO of course.

The fingerprint expert testified that they can detect glove prints. They look different but they can be seen and understood. She also,said they can detect if an area is wiped down. This is in Tricia’s interview with Caitlin Rother

 

[ANGLES]

During Jonah’s testimony he said Rebecca had cleaned and reorganized the garage, perhaps at that time Rebecca’s dna was transferred to the rope, and if killer wore gloves no dna from that person.

 

[Lezah]

Oh, wow, Lezah. Again, you have ferreted out another inconsistency that appears to be jarring. I would love to hear an answer to this one! And I think you should become a criminal investigator because you're good!

I didn’t know there was such a job ...but coming from the experts that’s very nice of you to say! I think your all amazing on here, I’m so glad I had the courage to join in after being an observer so so many years.

If one of us here gives a spark of an idea to Mr Greer that helps him put together a clearer picture for the jury, it time well spent.

( PS I think it’s because I’m a big Agatha Christi fan Haha!)



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[Mica]

AS didn't have to remove DNA... he just didn't have to leave it. Hence gloves. Where he did leave it, it was wiped off and NO prints were found (as in the door knobs, door). Where his DNA should be and isn't (like her skin, mouth) means thathe is lying and that is why I think he is stone cold guilty. IMO of course.

AS's lack of DNA on items he admitted to handling is a huge RED FLAG, IMO. I haven't followed this case like many here, but common sense alone tells me this was no suicide. I was busy following the McStay case at the time which was another huge blundered case by SDSO. Gore and his motley crew need to be removed and investigated, IMO.

 

[stmarysmead]

During Jonah’s testimony he said Rebecca had cleaned and reorganized the garage, perhaps at that time Rebecca’s dna was transferred to the rope, and if killer wore gloves no dna from that person.

There’s no trace evidence of JS anywhere, thats the issue. If he can commit such a complicated and multifaceted crime, involving torture, rape, murder, hanging, message painting, and leave not a speck of evidence of his presence, he is wasting his time on that tugboat...he could serve in the highest eschelons of espionage service.

He would be a phantom spy....never leaving traces of himself. Forget that amateur James Bond. AS didn’t even need super spy equipment. He figured out how to do all this and remove ALL....ALL traces of himself...during his first murder!!

 

[stmarysmead]

AS's lack of DNA on items he admitted to handling is a huge RED FLAG, IMO. I haven't followed this case like many here, but common sense alone tells me this was no suicide. I was busy following the McStay case at the time which was another huge blundered case by SDSO. Gore and his motley crew need to be removed and investigated, IMO.

I can’t label a man a murderer on evidence that’s not there. Your theory still requires AS to have become this mastermind assassin learning to remove all traces of himself during his first very very complicated murder.

Who can do that?

 

[MyBelle]

AS didn't have to remove DNA... he just didn't have to leave it. Hence gloves. Where he did leave it, it was wiped off and NO prints were found (as in the door knobs, door). Where his DNA should be and isn't (like her skin, mouth) means thathe is lying and that is why I think he is stone cold guilty. IMO of course.

If no DNA is left behind, it is impossible to conclude with any degree of certainty that another party was present. Not Adam, not anybody. I've never heard of a jury convicting someone in a criminal case if there was no evidence placing the person at the scene of the crime. If Adam is convicted in this civil case, I anticipate an immediate appeal. It will not surprise me if there is a hung jury. JMO

 

[minorone]

The fingerprint expert testified that they can detect glove prints. They look different but they can be seen and understood. She also,said they can detect if an area is wiped down. This is in Tricia’s interview with Caitlin Rother

Was any evidence ever given that they did check and dust for glove prints at the crime scene??? It sounds like if you first use fingerprint powder it would destroy glove prints.

If so, can you provide the link.


I started looking at articles re testing for glove prints and just to summarize a few points:
1) Need to determine if gloves were worn and different gloves leave different marks. Harder to check for when you are not looking for them or do not know if they were used .
2) Glove prints are always formed best on smooth surfaces. Their development requires great care because the prints are not that strong and are easily destroyed if too much powder is used.
3) A lamp is used to find them and caution needs to be used in brushing for them as too much powder will destroy them.
4) If prints of gloves and friction ridges appear together it may be difficult to distinguish the difference without closer examination. Glove prints are best formed on smooth surfaces.

 

[stmarysmead]

Was any evidence ever given that did check and dust for glove prints at the crime scene??? It sounds like if you first use fingerprint powder it would destroy glove prints.

If so, can you provide the link.


I started looking at articles re testing for glove prints and just to summarize a few points:
1) Need to determine if gloves were worn and different gloves leave different marks. Harder to check for when you are not looking for them or do not know if they were used .
2) Glove prints are always formed best on smooth surfaces. Their development requires great care because the prints are not that strong and are easily destroyed if too much powder is used.
3) A lamp is used to find them and caution needs to be used in brushing for them as too much powder will destroy them.
4) If prints of gloves and friction ridges appear together it may be difficult to distinguish the difference without closer examination. Glove prints are best formed on smooth surfaces.

Please listen to the podcast. There is so much on that podcast and the Under the Gavel that has just not been discussed here. My daughter is a radiologist. She was trained for years to look at images and see what is there, and what should not be there. That’s a trained eye. That is why it takes years to train radiologists or experts in fingerprinting. Years of learning what to look for!

They look...and know what they see. The fingerprint expert testified there was no evidence of gloves.

 

[stmarysmead]

All the testimony as to Rebecca’s calm demeanor and plans for the next day come from one source...her sister. But her sister has an emotional and financial interest in winning this case.

There is no question that RZ’s life was in turmoil. Cheating boyfriend, relationship on probation, hateful older kids just left, youngest child gravely injured, police calling, children services, the child’s Mother sure to blame her...the confluence of ALL THAT! Really the adamant refusal to admit that the woman was under ridiculous stress also undercuts the credibility of these theories.

“Oh, she was too religious!” Then the exhusband testifies about the serial infidelities. Having to move to get her away several times. RZ was not living a calm, stable life. No matter what happened to her that night, her previous life was not healthy and stable. It is not the history of an emotionally strong woman.

 

[Mica]

I can’t label a man a murderer on evidence that’s not there. Your theory still requires AS to have become this mastermind assassin learning to remove all traces of himself during his first very very complicated murder.

Who can do that?

He had the help of a botched investigation, IMO. Wearing gloves would eliminate all traces on evidence he admittedly handled.

 

[MyBelle]

Please listen to the podcast. There is so much on that podcast and the Under the Gavel that has just not been discussed here. My daughter is a radiologist. She was trained for years to look at images and see what is there, and what should not be there. That’s a trained eye. That is why it takes years to train radiologists or experts in fingerprinting. Years of learning what to look for!

They look...and know what they see. The fingerprint expert testified there was no evidence of gloves.

You raise an interesting point because RZ was a skilled surgical technician. The plaintiff's theory is that this was a murder made to look like a suicide. Yet LE immediately thought it was a murder and laboriously poured through items in order to find a suspect to no avail. Perhaps she decided to make her suicide look like a murder and the gloves were a decoy.

 

[MyBelle]

He had the help of a botched investigation, IMO. Wearing gloves would eliminate all traces on evidence he admittedly handled.

AS had no way to anticipate the quality of the criminal investigation nor could he control it. I disagree that it was botched.

 

[Imp]

He had the help of a botched investigation, IMO. Wearing gloves would eliminate all traces on evidence he admittedly handled.

He also had the benefit of complete privacy and hours and hours to wipe down surfaces, very probably even surfaces he'd touched with gloves. He was presumably alone on the property with RZ from 9-10pm until he called 911 around 630am.

 

[stmarysmead]

He also had the benefit of complete privacy and hours and hours to wipe down surfaces, very probably even surfaces he'd touched with gloves. He was presumably alone on the property with RZ from 9-10pm until he called 911 around 630pm.

The expert testified there was no evidence of a wipedown. Greer found one small area and she said it could just be the powder was adhering differently. Listen to the podcasts!

And if he’d wiped everything down...he would have wiped her prints and dna away too. I’d like Greer to demonstrate in court how he can remove his prints and dna from objects but say...leave the judges. Then imagine that on a massive scale of surfaces.

 

[MyBelle]

He also had the benefit of complete privacy and hours and hours to wipe down surfaces, very probably even surfaces he'd touched with gloves. He was presumably alone on the property with RZ from 9-10pm until he called 911 around 630pm.

How does one spend hours wiping down surfaces yet manage not to touch another person's prints?