CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

[DatelineFan]

I appreciate your perspective, and this mirrors some of my thoughts. MOST people would struggle to keep on an even keel, with adopting 6 high-trauma children. Not saying MOST people would become abusers. This was a huge under-taking, and I find it devastating that our adoption and child protection services are this lax or lackadaisical. And I echo a previous poster's comment that it has much to do with the women being white and the children being black. Sad but true.

The fact that the abuse allegations began soon after the first adoption points to problems beginning right away. Likely far more than the two women expected. Likely behaviors which did not validate the women as wonderful saviors (as it seems they really needed to be perceived as). So these women do not fall under my definition of "Most." They are an aberration and these young people deserved a better outcome.

We also don't even know that these kids had any major issues when they were adopted.

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[DatelineFan]

Do we have evidence that these children had high-trauma and/or showing effects of high-trauma? When I communicated that I felt that at least one of these women had a narcissistic personality disorder based on what I read from articles, what I gathered from interviews, my own knowledge of the dsm-5, life experiences, working with youth etc I was prompted to show some receipts.

<modsnip>

IMO

THANK YOU!! I'm with you 100% on this. It sounds like they suffered the most trauma from the women who adopted them!

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[changeindeed]

have five theories as to what happened to the missing children I think they're all possibilities or it could be something I haven't guessed but here's my theories:

1. Devonte and the missing girls came up with an escape plan and were able to plan it out and took off with the dogs. This would be the reason if true that Sarah and Jen would take off with the other 3 kids fearing cps would find out that other kids were gone. Which leads us to now the three remaining kids still hiding fearing the moms.

2. The moms could have of found out about the food devonte was getting, confronted him and the other two girls and possibly killed them and took off with the other kids first getting rid of the bodies then going over the cliff.

3. Devonte and the girls could have escaped during the trip if the mothers stopped off some where. The moms could have got so enraged when they realized that they drove off the cliff in anger. Which leads us to now the three remaining kids still hiding fearing the moms.

4. Devonte and the girls as a form of punishment were left in the woods or else where as a form of punishment. This could have led to an argument between the mother's one of them trying to reason with the other saying they went too far and to go back for the kids. This could have triggered the other mother to then out of anger go over the cliff. Meaning Devonte and the girls are out there somewhere waiting for the mothers to come back for them.

5. This one is a bit of a stretch but still worth a mention. Maybe the girls passed away awhile ago due to starvation, Devonte did tell the neighbors the mothers were starving him to death. Maybe before the cps worker showed up Devonte also died of starvation and when cps showed up the mother's panicked and went to dispose of the bodies before realizing they couldn't go back home now that cps was onto them and so they went off the cliff.

6. The kids were all actually in the suv and the three kids who were missing weren't seat belted in and maybe were thrown from the suv further out if they were sitting in the back with the dogs. The other 3 kids who were found outside the suv maybe were alive for a short time after the crash and got out of the suv.

These are all possible theories to me.

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Number 4 Has been my theory.

We live in the area, when this first came out, I thought it odd only Moms were buckled. I've always felt they hoped they would live with injuries and the kids would not survive. I figured they would say kids were sleeping and they allowed them to unbuckle.

Now that three are missing, I think they were furious that two of the three were the tattle tails and they punished them by dropping them off some where. I fear those three kids were left behind to survive on their own.

 

[Quill]

I would think Sarah was trained in methods of dealing with children with issues. Weighted vests. Mats with texture. I forget what else the OT told us about.

There are all kinds of ideas of what to do with kids with issues and if she did not learn them at school, she could look on line. Spanking , beating, and sticking the head under cold water are not ideas provided except I suppose for blanket trainer groups.

Did she have a special education degree?

 

[DatelineFan]

have five theories as to what happened to the missing children I think they're all possibilities or it could be something I haven't guessed but here's my theories:

1. Devonte and the missing girls came up with an escape plan and were able to plan it out and took off with the dogs. This would be the reason if true that Sarah and Jen would take off with the other 3 kids fearing cps would find out that other kids were gone. Which leads us to now the three remaining kids still hiding fearing the moms.

2. The moms could have of found out about the food devonte was getting, confronted him and the other two girls and possibly killed them and took off with the other kids first getting rid of the bodies then going over the cliff.

3. Devonte and the girls could have escaped during the trip if the mothers stopped off some where. The moms could have got so enraged when they realized that they drove off the cliff in anger. Which leads us to now the three remaining kids still hiding fearing the moms.

4. Devonte and the girls as a form of punishment were left in the woods or else where as a form of punishment. This could have led to an argument between the mother's one of them trying to reason with the other saying they went too far and to go back for the kids. This could have triggered the other mother to then out of anger go over the cliff. Meaning Devonte and the girls are out there somewhere waiting for the mothers to come back for them.

5. This one is a bit of a stretch but still worth a mention. Maybe the girls passed away awhile ago due to starvation, Devonte did tell the neighbors the mothers were starving him to death. Maybe before the cps worker showed up Devonte also died of starvation and when cps showed up the mother's panicked and went to dispose of the bodies before realizing they couldn't go back home now that cps was onto them and so they went off the cliff.

6. The kids were all actually in the suv and the three kids who were missing weren't seat belted in and maybe were thrown from the suv further out if they were sitting in the back with the dogs. The other 3 kids who were found outside the suv maybe were alive for a short time after the crash and got out of the suv.

These are all possible theories to me.

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Number 4 Has been my theory.

We live in the area, when this first came out, I thought it odd only Moms were buckled. I've always felt they hoped they would live with injuries and the kids would not survive. I figured they would say kids were sleeping and they allowed them to unbuckle.

Now that three are missing, I think they were furious that two of the three were the tattle tails and they punished them by dropping them off some where. I fear those three kids were left behind to survive on their own.

I just don't think they would have wanted survivors out there to tell the truth, even if they didn't think anyone would believe them. No way.

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[SATA]

Now what good natured mother wouldn't want a role model like that in her sons life? Even if it's just a few meetings or chats etc...please


IMO

Yes, what mother wouldn´t! Devastating.
Fantastic that he reached out btw. So sad they didn´t get to know each other.

 

[2Hope4]

https://co-a1.azureedge.net/co-uploads/2018/04/Jen-Hart-Surveillance-video.png

Jen sure had gained weight by her last photo. I wonder who last say the couple that knew them? They don't appear to have close friends, nor close family. Like they alienated themselves from people. We may never know what these dear children have had to endure.

 

[HeidiTX232]

Now that three are missing, I think they were furious that two of the three were the tattle tails and they punished them by dropping them off some where. I fear those three kids were left behind to survive on their own.

I don’t think so because the concern would be that they actually *would* survive. The intention in the end was to end all the children’s lives, I’m pretty sure. So sad.

Btw, I do think there are two possibilities regarding whether the moms were supposed to die. Mostly, I think this was the ultimate running away so of course the plan was to die. However, I can see the “oh poor us” story of losing all their kids in a freak accident. Add pity for any ongoing issues they may have had if they survived also.

 

[Jinkasaurus]

Sibling groups who are adopted out of foster care are only in that situation due to a history of abuse/neglect, and usually quite long-term/pervasive. In a rare instance, kids that have absolutely NO biological relatives, and both their parents died, could end up being adopted from foster care. Such children would still have the trauma of losing their parents and family. But this is not a very common scenario.

It takes quite a bit to permanently end parental rights, and CPS will always want to find a healthy family member to take in a child (relative placement) before they would attempt to adopt them to a stranger.

Based on this (and having worked with such children and families for many years), I think its fairly safe to assume that these children did experience abuse and/or neglect in the years prior to being adopted.

What we don't know is:
- how long they were in foster care before being adopted,
- how many foster placements they were in,
- the reasons they were initially placed into foster care,
- the reasons their parents failed to get them back after they were initially removed,
- why there weren't any relatives they could be placed with,
- what type of experiences they had while in foster care (not all foster homes are positive/healthy ones).

So that still leaves a LOT of unanswered questions about their life experiences prior to being adopted by this couple.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I am disturbed by this case for a lot of reasons, but one is how much Jen and Sarah remind me of a couple I knew for years. They are divorced now. Our friend group always strongly suspected the "Sarah" of the pair was being abused by the "Jen"--there was one incident in particular where she had an injury to her face that was irritably waved away as an accident that was "all her fault" by her partner while she sat silent. The "Jen" was extremely political about everything and obsessed with being a leader and a rolemodel as a lesbian this or lesbian that, progressive this, progressive that. Very self-righteous and focused on image. Also a grievance collector who held the stupidest things against people in our friend group, for YEARS. Like that one woman was able to get pregnant before she could, for instance. When they did have kids, the image obsession only increased. She became downright mean and unpleasant in close interaction and I kept my distance.

One thing that made me think of this couple was the guy who had offered to Jen to be a male role model for her sons, and her apparent disgust at that offer. The "Jen" I knew irl would have been absolutely beyond offended if a man had suggested fathers were in any way important to kids. She held it as a point of pride that her kids were to be raised "father free" and she considered any advocacy for the importance of dads to be homophobic.

Bbm: Excellent description of the "vibe" I am getting, the more I learn.

Another piece is both of these women were estranged from their families according to several reports. So, why is that? Seems they were wearing some passive / revolutionary masks? Highly political, highly alternative marriage, highly alternative mixed family, but with a specific hierarchy.

These kids were teenagers. And, their isolation must have been very unhealthy. Oh, they have the neat house, and most had beautiful teeth, and camping mountain yoga trips, and some events, but what I am not getting is their individuality, friends, dates, branching out, even the joy of a first job. And, the absence of role models, tribal figures, father figures, grandparents, etc... And in that way, that isolation is similar to the Turpins.

When it became apparent that this tragedy was intentional, I thought it might not have been lost on Jen, the high profile case of the Turpins. And, what could have been so horrible, or so hidden that she, or they, would kill her family to keep it that way?

 

[La2dc]

I have been lurking for a while. I wonder if one of the things that set Jen off finally was that she felt Devonte had turned against her. Devonte appeared to be her favorite. In the &#8216;Thing&#8221; t-shirt picture, Jen was #1, Devonte #2, and Sarah way back at the end. He was the only one of the kids the DeKalbs had seen outside the house taking the trash out, etc., so presumably he was the only one allowed outside the house. Maybe Jen found out that he had been getting food from the DeKalbs and figured out that had triggered the visit from CPS. And maybe, just maybe, instead of Sarah theoretically threatening to break up with Jen and take the kids, it was Devonte who in essence did the same thing. Maybe he threatened to run away or go to CPS in the car, and that sealed it for Jen. Just a theory. Poor brave kid if that was what happened.

 

[Sleuth99]

I have been lurking for a while. I wonder if one of the things that set Jen off finally was that she felt Devonte had turned against her. Devonte appeared to be her favorite. In the ‘Thing” t-shirt picture, Jen was #1, Devonte #2, and Sarah way back at the end. He was the only one of the kids the DeKalbs had seen outside the house taking the trash out, etc., so presumably he was the only one allowed outside the house. Maybe Jen found out that he had been getting food from the DeKalbs and figured out that had triggered the visit from CPS. And maybe, just maybe, instead of Sarah theoretically threatening to break up with Jen and take the kids, it was Devonte who in essence did the same thing. Maybe he threatened to run away or go to CPS in the car, and that sealed it for Jen. Just a theory. Poor brave kid if that was what happened.

You know those thing# shirts caught my eye too! I too feel that Devonte was the "Golden Child" within the family dynamic. The kids stayed in the house. Neighbors didn't see the children for the first three months but Devonte was selected to take out the trash. He was trusted to do that task. I also think Jen felt threatened by Ken from the hugs project because narcissist parents (yep I said it) want control and for children at minimum to emotionally and mentally rely on them. They don't want their children to explore other relationships in which they are not the center of attention. So yes if she found out about his actions, i do believe she would have taken action at a greater level of what she normally does. She could have harmed Devonte at the house or did something cruel along the way.


IMO

 

[Kasmeer]

This is just a tiny bit off topic, but I'll share anyway...

With all the posts here about the photo of Devonte hugging the police officer, and people sharing their interpretations of what he was feeling in that moment, it made me think of the test called "Reading the Mind in the Eyes" by professor Simon Baron-Cohen.

Its a series of photos of eyes and you have to guess which of four choices is the emotion being expressed in the photo. It is designed to measure how well a person can read facial expressions/emotions.

I found an on-line version of the test you can take here- it will score you at the bottom.

Reading the Mind in the Eyes test- NYT

I thought it would be interesting for people who are trying to interpret Devonte's emotions in that photo to see how well they score on the test.

Lol, 16, which should've been even lower but I got way higher than 1 in 4 hit rate on the ones where I had no clue at all; I'm on the autistic spectrum and really can't read faces at all well, only the most obvious expressions get through to me. Which is why I stay far away from trying to interpret emotions from photos and just rely on the opinions of the more perceptive people on here

 

[Sleuth99]

Sibling groups who are adopted out of foster care are only in that situation due to a history of abuse/neglect, and usually quite long-term/pervasive. In a rare instance, kids that have absolutely NO biological relatives, and both their parents died, could end up being adopted from foster care. Such children would still have the trauma of losing their parents and family. But this is not a very common scenario.

It takes quite a bit to permanently end parental rights, and CPS will always want to find a healthy family member to take in a child (relative placement) before they would attempt to adopt them to a stranger.

Based on this (and having worked with such children and families for many years), I think its fairly safe to assume that these children did experience abuse and/or neglect in the years prior to being adopted.

What we don't know is:
- how long they were in foster care before being adopted,
- how many foster placements they were in,
- the reasons they were initially placed into foster care,
- the reasons their parents failed to get them back after they were initially removed,
- why there weren't any relatives they could be placed with,
- what type of experiences they had while in foster care (not all foster homes are positive/healthy ones).

So that still leaves a LOT of unanswered questions about their life experiences prior to being adopted by this couple.

Yep a lot of unanswered questions and a lot of room to LIE.


IMO

 

[Starkville]

Did she have a special education degree?

According to her LinkedIn page, she had a Bachelors in Elemwntary, with a minor in Special Education from Northern State U.

 

[katydid23]

there is not a strong movement to prevent it, but there is a lot of talk about the subject in general.

There is a lot of talk about the subject in general. And maybe the subject in general should include WHY there are so many Children of Color in the foster pipeline, and so few POC stepping up to foster/adopt them.

 

[flourish]

This is just a tiny bit off topic, but I'll share anyway...

With all the posts here about the photo of Devonte hugging the police officer, and people sharing their interpretations of what he was feeling in that moment, it made me think of the test called "Reading the Mind in the Eyes" by professor Simon Baron-Cohen.

Its a series of photos of eyes and you have to guess which of four choices is the emotion being expressed in the photo. It is designed to measure how well a person can read facial expressions/emotions.

I found an on-line version of the test you can take here- it will score you at the bottom.

Reading the Mind in the Eyes test- NYT

I thought it would be interesting for people who are trying to interpret Devonte's emotions in that photo to see how well they score on the test.

32!
That was super interesting, thank you for sharing!

 

[scandinavian girl]

I just woke up, sorry if it has been posted already . I had a vague memory of the free hug movment, australia and one specific guy. found this. now i am going to do my wake/catch ups with a cup of tea.

www.mindbodygreen.com/0-30129/this-viral-video-has-been-viewed-over-77-million-times-heres-the-story-behind-it.html

 

[katydid23]

Do we have evidence that these children had high-trauma and/or showing effects of high-trauma? When I communicated that I felt that at least one of these women had a narcissistic personality disorder based on what I read from articles, what I gathered from interviews, my own knowledge of the dsm-5, life experiences, working with youth etc I was prompted to show some receipts.

So I am tired of seeing people lead with this children with high-trauma narrative cause it's unsubstantiated. Just give it up and face what's presented for all eyes to see because anything else is an EXTENSION of the privilege these two women benefited from while they were alive. And I'm disgusted by it.


IMO

I think the evidence that the kids went through a lot of trauma, in early childhood, is the fact that all 6 were adopted out of their bio family.

It takes a lot of verifiable evidence for social services to get the court to terminate parental rights. That does not happen unless there is some credible proof of abuse/neglect, which they assess cannot be turned around.

On top of that, there were apparently, no family members who could take in the children, or would take in the children. So that adds in another level of childhood trauma, imo.

So it does seem to be substantiated that there were serious issues in these children's early home lives. Otherwise they would not have been totally separated from their bio-families.

 

[longlonglake]

There is a lot of talk about the subject in general. And maybe the subject in general should include WHY there are so many Children of Color in the foster pipeline, and so few POC stepping up to foster/adopt them.

That should be obvious.