CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

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11223344

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I feel like something else had to have happened, a CPS visit is not the end of the world. They took 4 years to terminate my sisters rights to her children and that is after smoking meth with the two youngest in the room, kidnapping them and running through different states with her pimp on meth etc etc. 4 LONG years. CPS tried hard to keep children either with or under supervised visits families. Maybe other states have lower tolerances.

My only thought as to why they would have ran and done this rather than work through it with CPS is that one of the children was horribly beaten at the time. Police said there was food in the house, home was clean, doesn't seem like they were drug users. I can't speak to how Jen was raised, I only received love via achievement. Must be the best and perfect all the time. When you aren't that leads you down extremely harmful paths. I fell into alcohol, drugs and attempted suicide (about 13 years ago now). I've gone through massive therapy for this issue. I think Jen's inability to have what she considered the perfect family triggered something...this last CPS call may have been the icing since she had already lost face with the neighbors. Probably didn't want to move yet again. I dunno, just some thoughts.

Do we know why the 19 year old was still living at home?



Once they found out CPS was coming? They haven't registered for home school and took kids out in 2011? They'll see a 16 year old who apparently weighs 45 pounds and has two missing front teeth? Other children who are anorexic? No one getting services? And they obviously have lost control of the kids. They may have figured out it was Devonte who went for help because perhaps he was the only one who could leave the house. And now they know the neighbors have a second account of abuse. Or someone does.
I do believe it's a Pandora's box. Something moved them to Washington and they really isolated in past couple years even reportedly by Jen's own postings. If they'd been withholding meals, possible beatings and bruises. I'm sure CPS would want to know what's next for 19 year old. He would actually be able to take over his own benefits in a transition as a foster. I don't know as an adopted. Or if they were applying for social security on a bunch of them.
 

Compassion

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Guessing that things in their home had become particularly bad and death-dealing. Thinking things were so bad that Devonte was scared for all of the kids and was desperate to get help. By the end of March, food was routinely being withheld and perhaps physical abuse was becoming the norm.

Something bad was going on in their house---likely Jen was out-of-control and they feared for their safety and their lives---and Devonte took a chance in talking to the neighbors.

Perhaps Jen had deteriorated over the past several weeks or perhaps something

I am more interested in what got Devonte to finally seek help. After all these years, after him either staying silent or being coached by the women? What brought this? What was making them apparently withhold a lot of meals as punishment for what perceived crime? What could he possibly have done? And what may have warranted such a breach of rules?
Yes, the CPS visit triggered the women. I think Jen signed off on game when she found out or got the call from CPS, knew they were coming. They call first. A courtesy call. I read it somewhere, I know they do it here and I find it outrageous. For them to show up without an appointment I think means they were taking it seriously, but this? I doubt any calls were made over the weekend by CPS, again articles state that they went back out on Monday and Tuesday I think. I wish they had brought the police with them that Friday and waited and monitored the house, due to neighbors prior knowledge they should have. Or, if the neighbors were calling authorities, then keep Devonte right there, and call the police right there and then. Due to known past history and Devonte's expressed fear. They would all be alive. Especially with the neighbors backing him up with other report.
FYI...I am a licensed independent clinical social worker. Not trying to even go there...just by way of explanation. I am a mandated reporter, I file on people. I do not work for child services. I am a psychotherapist 20 years
 

Whiteorchids

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Ugh, super-posed. The photographer literally had to place the chickens there. (I know chickens.) Did the kids even get to eat those waffles?

Probably not by the time she got the perfect shot she wanted chickens had pooped all over the table, the kids clothes; hair and the waffles.
 

11223344

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Guessing that things in their home had become particularly bad and death-dealing. Thinking things were so bad that Devonte was scared for all of the kids and was desperate to get help. By the end of March, food was routinely being withheld and perhaps physical abuse was becoming the norm.

Something bad was going on in their house---likely Jen was out-of-control and they feared for their safety and their lives---and Devonte took a chance in talking to the neighbors.

Perhaps Jen had deteriorated over the past several weeks or perhaps something

At 45 lbs and 4'1, she should have still been in a booster seat. Good lord.

My 8 year old is 55 lbs and 4'2.

Again, good lord. :(

These women were going to jail for a long time
 

emma.laurens

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I am more interested in what got Devonte to finally seek help. After all these years, after him either staying silent or being coached by the women? What brought this? What was making them apparently withhold a lot of meals as punishment for what perceived crime? What could he possibly have done? And what may have warranted such a breach of rules?
Yes, the CPS visit triggered the women. I think Jen signed off on game when she found out or got the call from CPS, knew they were coming. They call first. A courtesy call. I read it somewhere, I know they do it here and I find it outrageous. For them to show up without an appointment I think means they were taking it seriously, but this? I doubt any calls were made over the weekend by CPS, again articles state that they went back out on Monday and Tuesday I think. I wish they had brought the police with them that Friday and waited and monitored the house, due to neighbors prior knowledge they should have. Or, if the neighbors were calling authorities, then keep Devonte right there, and call the police right there and then. Due to known past history and Devonte's expressed fear. They would all be alive. Especially with the neighbors backing him up with other report.
FYI...I am a licensed independent clinical social worker. Not trying to even go there...just by way of explanation. I am a mandated reporter, I file on people. I do not work for child services. I am a psychotherapist 20 years

Re: why did Devonte finally seek help?

IMO, it may have been a combination of watching his siblings get weaker, and finally going through the initial phases of delayed puberty (from being underweight) himself. With boys, you can't put off the growth spurt forever, even if they stay underweight and relatively short. Markis is tiny in most of the photos, but at 17 he finally was the same height as Jen. Nowhere near the normal range for someone his age. But tall enough that he might have been able to defend himself.

Devonte also got the most affirmation from adults outside the family. Even though it seems both women tried to isolate them from other influences, it may have been enough to give him a seed of intrinsic worth and self-confidence that the others lacked. Maybe the same thing with Hannah. The Seattle comment suggests (to me) that she met someone from there who made her feel safe.

Just to add, on the subject of the kids' weight... It is possible for children who are underweight before age 7 to stay underweight and fail to grow to a normal height for their age, even after getting proper nutrition. However, that kind of early life malnutrition only has a substantial impact on 30% of children who go on to get adequate food through adolescence and early adulthood. And "substantial impact" means 1"-3" shorter than average for their age. Most of the Hart kids were at least 6" shorter than the normal range for their age.

Barring any other developmental issues (which there is no concrete evidence of, as yet), statistical probability says that two of the kids, at most, would still have been underweight after getting six/nine years of adequate calorie intake. It is highly unlikely that all of them would be so small.

A few people have mentioned that the reason for Markis' facial swelling is due to a parotid gland issue. I looked up reasons for parotid gland swelling in teenagers and came up with this: "Parotid swelling may occur in other disorders, such as diabetes and alcoholism, and in cases of starvation, as seen with soldiers in prison camps." (Medical Issues and Eating Disorders, Allan Kaplan, 2013).
 

Whiteorchids

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Re: why did Devonte finally seek help?

IMO, it may have been a combination of watching his siblings get weaker, and finally going through the initial phases of delayed puberty (from being underweight) himself. With boys, you can't put off the growth spurt forever, even if they stay underweight and relatively short. Markis is tiny in most of the photos, but at 17 he finally was the same height as Jen. Nowhere near the normal range for someone his age. But tall enough that he might have been able to defend himself.

Devonte also got the most affirmation from adults outside the family. Even though it seems both women tried to isolate them from other influences, it may have been enough to give him a seed of intrinsic worth and self-confidence that the others lacked. Maybe the same thing with Hannah. The Seattle comment suggests (to me) that she met someone from there who made her feel safe.

Just to add, on the subject of the kids' weight... It is possible for children who are underweight before age 7 to stay underweight and fail to grow to a normal height for their age, even after getting proper nutrition. However, that kind of early life malnutrition only has a substantial impact on 30% of children who go on to get adequate food through adolescence and early adulthood. And "substantial impact" means 1"-3" shorter than average for their age. Most of the Hart kids were at least 6" shorter than the normal range for their age.

Barring any other developmental issues (which there is no concrete evidence of, as yet), statistical probability says that two of the kids, at most, would still have been underweight after getting six/nine years of adequate calorie intake. It is highly unlikely that all of them would be so small.

I wonder if any of the girls had started menstruating yet? Markis was an adult the others were teenagers and getting close to adulthood. It was getting too much for these monsters too handle and control them.
 

rosemadderlake

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Look at his face, thats not happy. He looks scared to death either because of the worm or because god forbid he dropped a freaking worm while warden Jen was filming him. Poor baby. I'm glad that these babies are not suffering anymore. I wiah it ended better for them they didnt deserve to die especially in the manner they did. But now they're in heaven while the demonic moms are in the other place. In Heaven they have all the love and food and toys and playing and singing they could ever want. No more being beaten and god knows what else if anything the mothers did to them.
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Hon, damn, we know what we think about this poor child..

And you know what? There isn't a damn thing we can do about it...
 

liltexans

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I'm working on a new thread. This one will close in 10 minutes.
 

ilovepierre

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All of mine have stopped wanting to run around the house in underwear or go out in public in costumes by 4-5 years old at the far end. But that is just my personal experience.

My brother is almost 6 and still only wears underwear around the house.
But every kid is different.
 

ZoriahNZ

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What the heck is that building/trailer in the top left corner of the property? Very removed from the house. My first awful thought was that it could be a place of punishment or isolation if one of the kids stepped out of line. Garden or potting shed? Looks like a caravan, though.
 
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