Thailand - FOUND ALIVE - Officials Believe 12 Boys And Coach Trapped In Cave , 23 June 2018

[JDG]

One thing that should help is they can take a little break once they get to chamber 3, where the SEALS have set up a base. I think that might be three hours away IIRC.

I'm not sure that taking a break is a good idea. The time constraints are very tight before the rains return, if the boys are panicky stopping is the last thing to do as it lengthens their time in the cave and most important is the quality of the air down there. I know they are trying to improve the air quality but lung trouble could also be massive problem. Once they decide to take a boy out, they need to do as quickly as possible.

I kind of hope they give the boys amnesic drugs if they are bringing them out through those tunnels. Yes, they need them to help but its going to be claustrophobic and frightening as all get out. The less they remember, the better.

Hoping for good news, maybe tonight or in the morning.

 

[Elainera]

Yes, like those big corrugated utility pipes. Great idea!

Could they get damaged by jagged rock though?

 

[creepcrusher]

Someone is sharing an interesting idea on Twitter how the boys could get out. It involves large tubes being put into the water with both ends coming out above the water, so the boys could crawl through. Doable?

See image:
Ben Robitaille on Twitter

I like it. for the narrower areas they can use narrower tubes. This will protect them from the sharper edges and lead the way.

 

[creepcrusher]

A list of the names and ages of the boys:

The boys are aged 11 to 16 and were on a trip with their 25-year-old coach, named as Ekkapol Chantawong, from their team Moo Pa - Thai for Wild Boar.

They have been named as:

Mongkol Boonpium, 13

Duangphet Promthep, 12

Panumart Saengdee

Pipat Phothai, 15

Nattawoot Thakamsai, 14

Adul Samon, 14

Somphong Jaiwong, 13

Chanin Wiboonroongrueng, 11

Phornchid Kamluang, 16

Prachuck Sutham, 14

Peerapat Sompiengjai, 16

Ekkarat Wongsookchan, 14

I'm curious as to which child was the main talker. I bet his parents smiled and bawled watching the video of him.

 

[creepcrusher]

I'm not sure that taking a break is a good idea. The time constraints are very tight before the rains return, if the boys are panicky stopping is the last thing to do as it lengthens their time in the cave and most important is the quality of the air down there. I know they are trying to improve the air quality but lung trouble could also be massive problem. Once they decide to take a boy out, they need to do as quickly as possible.

I kind of hope they give the boys amnesic drugs if they are bringing them out through those tunnels. Yes, they need them to help but its going to be claustrophobic and frightening as all get out. The less they remember, the better.

Hoping for good news, maybe tonight or in the morning.

Just finished catching up. Yeah, you're probably right. But I like that the option is there, if needed. For instance if they have any problems with the diving equipment, or if a child frequently panics.

 

[creepcrusher]

Layout of expandable inflatable pipe at link
Jose de Castro on Twitter

 

[Seattle1]

Someone is sharing an interesting idea on Twitter how the boys could get out. It involves large tubes being put into the water with both ends coming out above the water, so the boys could crawl through. Doable?

See image:
Ben Robitaille on Twitter

Don't you love it when humanity comes together with brilliant ideas. No doubt that in another corner of the world, somebody else is calculating oxygen supply for a workable solution.... (Reminds me of the Chilean miners rescue).

PEACE and blessed Independence Day to all!

 

[Seattle1]

I'm not sure that taking a break is a good idea. The time constraints are very tight before the rains return, if the boys are panicky stopping is the last thing to do as it lengthens their time in the cave and most important is the quality of the air down there. I know they are trying to improve the air quality but lung trouble could also be massive problem. Once they decide to take a boy out, they need to do as quickly as possible.

I kind of hope they give the boys amnesic drugs if they are bringing them out through those tunnels. Yes, they need them to help but its going to be claustrophobic and frightening as all get out. The less they remember, the better.

Hoping for good news, maybe tonight or in the morning.

I have friends that just happened to be in Thailand this week. What we've seen here was their adrenaline rush at the sight/idea of rescuers when in fact the boys are quite weak. They are using every break to hydrate and introduce nutrients to the boys that they can participate in their rescue both physically and mentally all the while plan A-Z is being mapped out. The best of the best are working on this!

 

[Amonet]

Someone is sharing an interesting idea on Twitter how the boys could get out. It involves large tubes being put into the water with both ends coming out above the water, so the boys could crawl through. Doable?

See image:
Ben Robitaille on Twitter

I don't think the boys would be able to get purchase to crawl through the inside, and it would take an enormous amount of energy to try, and they're only in the first days of recovering from ten days without food, loss of muscle tone etc.

Putting a boy into a harness and having a rescuer drag him through the tube might be easier.

But you'd also be creating a different constricted space and if one boy gets stuck, then you've lost them all.

It's a great concept, but I think making it reality wouldn't really be feasible for this length of tunnel, especially when the tunnel isn't relatively straight and smooth, and when you'd have to have the expert divers go through tiny spaces trying to lay the tubes.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

The published information about at least some of the passages within the cave say that the divers cannot get through with their oxygen tanks on their backs.

So to imagine this, pretend you are going to go under a "limbo stick". But instead of going under it in the "normal" limbo stick way - facing the stick- you are going to crawl underneath it.

Now, imagine two people are holding the limbo stick - one on the left and one on the right of a stick that is only, say, 24 inches wide. For you to go under that stick on all fours but not touching the stick, how high would the stick have to be held?
Okay, now imagine that the stick is lowered towards the floor. And you still want to go under it to get to the other side.

How do you do it? You get down onto your belly and use your arms to propel yourself forward, inch by inch. That is what you do inside of a long narrow "worm hole" passage inside a cave. It is NOT for anyone who has claustrophobia. It also helps to be slim, which the boys appear to be. And it takes muscle strength, so that is why they want to get proper nutrients into the boys for a few days before attempting anything.

This is a very tough situation. The miners who were trapped, both here in western Pennsylvania and in Chile were in dry spaces with no imminent danger of flooding. Within a cave you can have a situation of all of the runoff from an entire mountainside running into the cave system. Like a river running into it. If the drainage hole (outlet) for the water accumulating within the cave is small, the water can back up and fill every passage and every chamber of the cave.

Looking at the diagram of the cave system, the reason they are pumping is to create those air spaces above the existing water inside the cave. If they weren't pumping it would be filled higher than it is. (They also tried drilling new outlets for the water but I don't think that helped.)

Last but not least, while I know the diagram is merely an artist's rendering based on the description of people who have actually been inside the cave, I can see that their position is downhill in terms of overall elevation within the cave. And that is not good either.

Indeed we must pray for a miracle for these boys and also pray for the rescuers who are literally risking their own lives.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

FWIW The rescue capsule used to extract the Chilean miners was 21 inches in diameter. The men had their arms straight down at their sides within the capsule.
The drilled hole was 28 inches in diameter.

The drill that was successful (three drills were drilling) could drill 130 ft. per day. It was supplied by a company located in Berlin, PA which is near Somerset, PA and not very far from the Que Creek mine site. (Also nearby to the Que Creek site is the National Monument where Flight 93 went down on 9/11.)

The successful drill operated from Sept 5 - October 9, 2010.

 

[margarita25]

Don't you love it when humanity comes together with brilliant ideas. No doubt that in another corner of the world, somebody else is calculating oxygen supply for a workable solution.... (Reminds me of the Chilean miners rescue).

PEACE and blessed Independence Day to all!

(R r minds me I f the BP Oil Spill...even Kevin Costner had an idea...of course ideas were certain l y needed at that point!)

 

[creepcrusher]

This was just tweeted about the dive back with the boys estimated to only take an hour and a half.
ABC Melbourne on Twitter
Taking it with a grain of salt.

 

[katydid23]

I am still very worried for these sweet boys. Knowing that they cannot swim or dive is very worrisome.

Hunkering down, with the help of the Navy Seals and the doctors and being brought in fresh food and visitors would be one option.

But what happened during the monsoons? Can this high ground be over run with floods?

 

[gregjrichards]

What a living nightmare this is for these poor boys and their parents. I hope and pray everything works out safely.

 

[katydid23]

They said it was an 'arduous hour and a half dive. ' Very worrisome, considering these boys do not know how to swim or dive, reportedly.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

katydid: Yes, it possibly could. No one would know for sure how high the water gets inside the cave because no one has ever been in there during the monsoon season. At least not that has been reported.

If you read the article that was linked at the beginning of this thread to the British flooded cave rescue, the water reached the entrance to the cave.

Looking at the published diagram of this cave, it appears the boys are at a fairly low elevation within the system. Meaning they went in and went downhill. So presumably if flooding is to take place, it would fill the lower lying parts of this cave before it would fill up to the entrance. Unless there is a water outlet that prevents this particular area from flooding.

This is why "waiting it out" could be so very dangerous.

The experienced cavers may be able to tell if the area floods by looking at the walls of the area where the boys are situated. I'm not sure about that, however.

I was only ever in a truly wet cave once, in West Virginia. I did not like it at all - it really scared me to be trudging through about 1 1/2 ft. of water through a wet walking passage. I was afraid of dropping into an unseen hole. I would never go into a wet cave after that.

 

[Gardenista]

I am still very worried for these sweet boys. Knowing that they cannot swim or dive is very worrisome.

Hunkering down, with the help of the Navy Seals and the doctors and being brought in fresh food and visitors would be one option.

But what happened during the monsoons? Can this high ground be over run with floods?

They don't know.

 

[creepcrusher]

katydid: Yes, it possibly could. No one would know for sure how high the water gets inside the cave because no one has ever been in there during the monsoon season. At least not that has been reported.

If you read the article that was links at the beginning of this thread to the British flooded cave rescue, the water reached the entrance to the cave.

Looking at the published diagram of this cave, it appears the boys are a a fairly low elevation within the system. Meaning they went in and went downhill. So if flooding is to take place, it would fill the lower lying parts of this cave before it would fill up to the entrance.

This is why "waiting it out" could be so very dangerous.

But I thought with this particular cave the entrance was already flooded and they had to pump the water out of it. If that’s the case then the entrance floods before the location where the boys are at.

Either way there is still a dangerous risk of the entire cave flooding. It’s another reason why they need diving equipment for the boys. Even if they stay they may need to swim out of the cave on their own to save themselves. So the SEALS are going to teach the boys how to swim regardless.

 

[creepcrusher]

New update at link. Kids are getting stronger. It’s looking more and more like they’re going to dive them out. 2 SEALS per child. Most crucial part of the dive is between where the boys are now and chamber 3. More at the link.
digitalay on Twitter