Thailand - FOUND ALIVE - Officials Believe 12 Boys And Coach Trapped In Cave , 23 June 2018

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A West Virginia caving experience: Caves are the homes to bats. So if you go into a cave during the daytime and shine your light up at the ceiling of the entrance chamber you will see thousands of bats clinging to the ceiling. They are sleeping.

Nowadays many of the bat caves in West Virginia are closed to cavers in order to protect the bats. But in the "old days", 25-30 years ago, they were open.

On one trip my group of five got a bit delayed inside the cave (one guy had brought a special 3-D camera and tripod along with him and got some really spectacular photographs) so we ended up coming out just at twilight. And as we navigated a long, dry walking passage towards the entrance, the bats awoke.

Now this was a large, wide, high dry passage. We should have been able to walk out three abreast. Within about two minutes there were thousands of bats flying around inside the passage - along with us! Thankfully we all had helmets and proper long sleeved clothing on, so we hit the deck and crawled out of that cave on all fours with bats screeching and flying out of the cave above us.

Never again did we ever attempt a cave exit at that time of day!
 
creepcrusher said:
New update at link. Kids are getting stronger. It’s looking more and more like they’re going to dive them out. 2 SEALS per child. Most crucial part of the dive is between where the boys are now and chamber 3. More at the link.
digitalay on Twitter
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Wow, that's an encouraging update, especially the part about the discovery of another channel.
 
creepcrusher said:
New update at link. Kids are getting stronger. It’s looking more and more like they’re going to dive them out. 2 SEALS per child. Most crucial part of the dive is between where the boys are now and chamber 3. More at the link.
digitalay on Twitter
Click to expand...

Sounds good. Says they are also psychologically in good shape.

I think it's safer to do the dive than to wait. Monsoon is unpredictable.

They are resilient, they'll be alright imo.
 
AlwaysShocked said:
FWIW The rescue capsule used to extract the Chilean miners was 21 inches in diameter. The men had their arms straight down at their sides within the capsule.
The drilled hole was 28 inches in diameter.

The drill that was successful (three drills were drilling) could drill 130 ft. per day. It was supplied by a company located in Berlin, PA which is near Somerset, PA and not very far from the Que Creek mine site. (Also nearby to the Que Creek site is the National Monument where Flight 93 went down on 9/11.)

The successful drill operated from Sept 5 - October 9, 2010.
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In a mine, every tunnel and every "room" is precisely mapped. They knew exactly where to drill and at exactly what angle.

There are only rudimentary maps of this cave system. They would be guessing where to drill and more likely than not they would miss them. They are in a very small cavity.

I've also read that just bringing in the right equipment would be a challenge. They may have to build roads through the jungle to get the equipment in.

There are only three options: dive, drill, or wait out the monsoons . All options are bad. The most realistic chance of getting them out alive is probably diving, and that is incredibly risky for both the boys and divers.
 
Four options. I'm betting on #4.

Wait for water to go down
Waiting for water to recede is risky because Thailand is at the start of its monsoon season. Rescuers have pumped some water out of the cave systems, but more rains are expected soon, and it could be months before waters are back down near the levels they were at when the group went in. Thai navy Seals were reportedly taking in four months worth of food supplies for the boys.

Create a new passage
Drilling down to reach the group does not appear to be practical. Rescuers are probing near the caves for other possible entrances, but have not found any that lead near the group’s refuge. Even if they do get close, the British Cave Rescue Council said the boys are “located in a relatively small space and this would make any potential drilling attempt as a means of rescue very difficult”.

Teach the boys to dive so they can be guided out
This seems extremely unlikely as cave diving is difficult even for people with experience and reportedly none of the boys can swim, much less use diving equipment.

They would have to learn to both swim and dive metres underground, then navigate through a passage that has proved challenging even for their extremely experienced rescuers, through water often thick with silt with near-zero visibility, managing strong currents and passages not much wider than their bodies.

Pass the boys out via a human chain of rescuers
The only other option is to fit the boys with full face masks, providing them with breathing equipment and a thick wetsuit to prevent hypothermia, then effectively passing them out along a human chain of rescuers.

However this would also be complicated. Parts of the cave system are reportedly so narrow that Thai Seal teams and the volunteer rescue divers had to remove their own breathing apparatus to get through, so it is not clear how the soccer team would be handed through those sections.

It would also be extremely slow, with the group brought out one-by-one using a kind of relay system to minimise risks. If they left as a group, and one person got stuck in a difficult section, it could put others at risk, rescuers said.
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How can the boys be rescued from the Thai cave?
 
The flooded areas that have been being drained are located within the cave, not at the entrance chamber.
Rescuers to pump water from Thai cave in search for missing soccer team

The purpose of the draining was to create "headroom" for the divers, so they had enough space to come up above the water within the flooded chambers.

It sounds like the flooded chambers may be less of a potential problem than the narrow, twisting flooded passages the divers have been navigating to get to where the boys are located.

If a straighter, more direct channel has been found that would surely be helpful.

I've noticed that two different "diagrams" of the interior of the cave show the spot where the boys are located differently.
For sure the cave divers would have instruments to measure elevation with them. But I am a bit skeptical of the drawn diagrams that we've seen.

I know that cave maps of well-mapped caves here in the U.S. were not always 100% accurate. But that could have improved over the years. Unfortunately, it does not sound like this is a well mapped cave.
 
I have read that it could start raining again, anytime now. So they need to get started or things could get much worse. At least they have a lot of help and resources and supplies. They may need a series of small miracles to make this happen successfully...
 
On Twitter there are talks of the doctors drugging the kids to the point where they wouldn’t panic then the SEALS manhandling the kids to get them out. This way they won’t need to wait for scuba lessons. Sounds horrid, but look at their other options. Rain is in the forecast tonight. It is currently 6:12 AM there.
 
The long-lasting psychological impacts
When rescuers found the missing people in the pitch-black cave, the boys expressed that they were hungry and didn't know what day it was.

They asked the rescuer, "We going today?"

Being trapped in a confined space for days also can lead to fear, confusion, anxiety and feelings of helplessness and hopelessness, said Sandy Capaldi, psychologist and associate director of the Center for the Treatment and Study of Anxiety at the University of Pennsylvania's Perelman School of Medicine.

Those immediate psychological impacts also may be different among children versus adults.

"While an adult may be prone to try to think about the situation more rationally -- telling himself that rescue will surely come because others will be looking for them -- children may be unable to do so and may therefore experience more negative feelings," Capaldi said.

"The long-term psychological impacts of traumatic events such as this for adolescents, however, are often very similar to adults," she added.

Thinking that you have been rescued, only to learn that you might have to wait days, weeks or months before being freed can take a psychological toll, too, according to experts.
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More at link: Thailand cave rescue: The health toll of waiting for freedom

I pray that all will be able to stay strong both physically and psychologically until all are rescued.
 
creepcrusher said:
On Twitter there are talks of the doctors drugging the kids to the point where they wouldn’t panic then the SEALS manhandling the kids to get them out. This way they won’t need to wait for scuba lessons. Sounds horrid, but look at their other options. Rain is in the forecast tonight. It is currently 6:12 AM there.
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It does sound horrid but it may be the only viable option. Teaching them to dive would be great, but if it starts raining heavily, it could be devastating and deadly. They may need to do something immediate and drastic.
 
katydid23 said:
It does sound horrid but it may be the only viable option. Teaching them to dive would be great, but if it starts raining heavily, it could be devastating and deadly. They may need to do something immediate and drastic.
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I agree. There are risks to all options. This one probably has the least of them. I’m going to be holding my breath when the rescue begins. Please God keep those babies and their rescuers safe!
 
creepcrusher said:
On Twitter there are talks of the doctors drugging the kids to the point where they wouldn’t panic then the SEALS manhandling the kids to get them out. This way they won’t need to wait for scuba lessons. Sounds horrid, but look at their other options. Rain is in the forecast tonight. It is currently 6:12 AM there.
Click to expand...

What are the best hashtags to find tweets?
 
katydid23 said:
It does sound horrid but it may be the only viable option. Teaching them to dive would be great, but if it starts raining heavily, it could be devastating and deadly. They may need to do something immediate and drastic.
Click to expand...
For non- swimmers PANIC is a definite concern. If they still needed mask and supplemental oxygen/air, how would a
sedated kid keep the mouthpiece secured in his mouth?
Are they thinking of trying this without air tanks?
 
It was thought that the boys and their coach, who have been stuck in the cave for 11 days, might need months of training by specialist divers before they can safely make their way out.

But the country's interior minister has said the evacuation "must speed up" and be made as soon as possible before more rain falls and exacerbates the flooding in the cave.

His comments have been echoed by major general Chalong Chai of the Thai army, who told Sky News the rescue "will be in the coming days but as soon as possible because it is going to rain".

"They will use the same masks as the divers but they need more time to become more skillfull.
Click to expand...


Thailand cave rescue: Trapped boys must be rescued before waters rise
 
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