CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #11

[Waterdog]

If that person was so out of control, that may have been the only option. IMO

My husband would have been able to bear hug me to control me. He could kill me but he'd be able to physically control me without needing to kill me. Imo, CW could have done the same with SW. Edit: IF he didn't want to kill her.

 

[Bluefield]

I'm thinking along the same line. I wonder if it was because a child was acting out & wanting dessert, but needed to finish her dinner first. Since he brings that up during one of the interviews. Maybe he lashed out too roughly & child died. He knew the other child would tell Shannan what he had done.

Right, and as far as I know he wasn't used to taking care of the girls for extended periods of time.

 

[FlossyMay]

I don't believe any of this was an accident. You don't accidentally strangle folks.

 

[gitana1]

Gitana 1

Don't over estimate people. And yes, I have seen people treated this way in courtrooms, on an almost daily basis.

I have too. But not in the context of criminal cases toward jurors by judges or prosecution or defense. Because any prosecutor or defense attorney would be out of a job of they acted that way. They couldn't win cases.

Mostly it's us attorneys who are treated that way.

Listen, sure I'm worried. We've seen examples already of agendas and biases and an inability to critically think and I'm worried about the possibility of someone like that getting on the jury.

But overall I have faith in the average American citizen. I don't think you need a college education or expertise to use common sense or be rational or understand most basic jury instructions (some are more complex and admittedly that can be harder).

I mean with all my education, I did not see what people right here saw in just the defense motions that indicated to them where the defense might be going.

And yes, we have a uniquely astute bunch of members here with tons of experience researching these cases but still!!

So I have faith that the jury is more likely than not to understand the instructions. I have faith that the DA handling this case is going to do everything to make sure they do. And I have faith that the judge and jury are going to treat them with respect if they need clarification.

I have not once seen jurors treated with contempt or anything less than respect for having questions about jury instructions or the evidence.

 

[Satchie]

Regarding the bedding...(I’ve tried to find the post I wanted to quote and I can’t...gag!)

IMO the bedding on the floor, trash and dump site can all be related. Bedding on the floor doesn’t mention if it was the “entire” set. For example, on my bed I have a mattress protector, a fitted sheet, a top sheet, a light blanket, a comforter, 2 pillow cases and 2 shams. It wasn’t specified what was on the floor. With my own bedding as an example the comforter, blanket, and mattress protector alone make a pretty hefty pile of “bedding” on the floor.

There could also be bedding we haven't heard about yet: left in the grave or in the tank(s).

 

[gitana1]

It cannot be usual to have to make excuses for a person's odd/wrong behaviour and actions over and over and over again. One of two little things maybe.
When you actually write down how Many things have to be explained away for CW to be telling the truth it is laughable.

It gets weird, right? While wildly speculating about the victim?

 

[Bluefield]

My husband would have been able to bear hug me to control me. He could kill me but he'd be able to physically control me without needing to kill me. Imo, CW could have done the same with SW.

For sure. He'd have pushed you away and frantically tried to revive the baby.

 

[Chelly]

No. That would never happen in a court setting. That's untrue.

Also, I would've understood that paragraph long before I ever went to law school.

And defense attorneys and prosecutors are going to be very good at relating to people from all walks of life and education levels. It's their job to be able to explain things well to laypeople and break things down easily.

But regardless, I really think you don't have to go to college to understand that paragraph. It doesn't even include complex words like obfuscation. Plenty of normal people who don't go to college are smart. And most US citizens regardless of education level have common sense and can read and understand English.

Thanks gitana1, for continuing to point out that common sense, logic and the ability to reason is pretty much all that is required to determine CW's guilt. I must admit, that as I read here, I sometimes question the evolution of the human brain.

 

[pocketaccent]

No. That would never happen in a court setting. That's untrue.

Also, I would've understood that paragraph long before I ever went to law school.

And defense attorneys and prosecutors are going to be very good at relating to people from all walks of life and education levels. It's their job to be able to explain things well to laypeople and break things down easily.

But regardless, I really think you don't have to go to college to understand that paragraph. It doesn't even include complex words like obfuscation. Plenty of normal people who don't go to college are smart. And most US citizens regardless of education level have common sense and can read and understand English.

I sat on the jury for a first degree murder case. Though English is a second language for me, I understood every word and nuances spoken by attorneys and judge. They spoke plain English for us. I mean really plain. And we reached a unanimous verdict.

 

[borndem]

Compound that with SW being from the tiny town of Aberdeen NC where my Grandparents moved to in 1914 and lived their lives, raised their children, and are buried there. I feel like we’ve lost a native sister and her beautiful children.

My grandparents lived near there, and I had a good friend from Aberdeen. Nice little town -- lots of Scots down there. She was a native of Aberdeen, IIANM. I'm sure they are all horrified, mourning for her and the children, and totally not believing she would ever hurt her children. And her poor parents, having to deal with all of it -- and it prolly won't be over for months & months. SMH.

 

[BingoBongo]

Do character witness accounts carry much weight in a trial?
I don't pay too much attention to what people think of someone, especially when it's positive as it's easy and and common to be duped by a sociopath.

I don't know how much weight character witness will matter in this case, and I am by NO means knowledgeable about court proceedings...but here is a helpful explanation of how the law looks at it.

http://law.indiana.edu/instruction/tanford/b723/06char/T06.pdf

 

[gitana1]

Do character witness accounts carry much weight in a trial?
I don't pay too much attention to what people think of someone, especially when it's positive as it's easy and and common to be duped by a sociopath.

Only really in the sentencing phase. But this is interesting and may be applicable to this case:

RULE 404 Character Evidence Not Admissible to Prove Conduct; Exceptions; Other Crimes

(a) Character evidence generally. Evidence of a person's character or a trait of his character is not admissible for the purpose of proving that he acted in conformity therewith on a particular occasion, except:
(1) Character of accused. Evidence of a pertinent trait of his character offered by an accused, or by the prosecution to rebut the same or if evidence of the alleged victim¹s character for aggressiveness or violence is offered by an accused and admitted under Rule 404(a)(2), evidence of the same trait of character of the accused offered by the prosecution;
(2) Character of victim. Evidence of a pertinent trait of character of the victim of the crime offered by an accused, or by the prosecution to rebut the same, or evidence of a character trait of peacefulness of the victim offered by the prosecution in a homicide case to rebut evidence that the victim was the first aggressor;

13.11 Colorado Rules Of Evidence

 

[NuttMegg]

As of right now I don't believe there is any evidence out there that shows who killed the kids. We know CW has been charged, however there is no evidence either way. You are all speculating right now.

but we know who callously dumped them as though they never were even previously alive. We dont even know if they were alive when he dumped them in the crude oil since he never bothered to call ems or 911 to verify their deaths.

 

[gitana1]

Thank goodness you are here at Webslueths! Can't speak for everyone, but, I/we are so grateful.
You have a gift of making 'legal speak' a language we can all understand.
You are patient with question after question - thoroughly answering each one. Thank you ♡

With this post you were able to put my gut wrenching fears into words. It would have 'sounded' like ramblings if it came from me. ♡

I just have a visceral, nightmarish feeling about this case. EVERYTHING about this case. Not only that a husband, a father .... a fellow human being could do this to his own family ... but, also, there's a slight possibility he might get away with it. Even just the thoughts of that happening fills me with ABSOLUTE DREAD. (not being hyperbolic)

Many posters might give the advice of just avoiding the threads about Shanann, if it affects me in such a way. I've even mentioned it in posts of my own.

Lurked for years before joining. Some cases just become encased in your heart & soul. This one has latched on to something so primal inside of me

Sorry, for the ramble Really just wanted to Thank you. You are such a treasure to Webslueths. ♡

Wow! Thank you so much for that vote of confidence. I view myself as tending to be blunt and that can be off putting!

 

[NuttMegg]

Like some, I suspect Watts killed the girls before his wife returned. Unlike most, however, I don't think he planned to kill them. I suspect he lost his temper with one daughter and fatally injured her, and when the second daughter was incosolable he killed her in a panic.
In contrast, I think he planned to kill Shannan the moment she walked through the door (and she quite possibly never knew her girls were dead as a result) because he knows she wouldn't have forgiven him or believed any story he could possibly come up with to explain why her girls were dead/not there.

And, if that was the way it happened it would explain why he couldn't call 911...the difference in time in the murders might have been very obvious, especially after the plane delay which could have infuriated him to a level unequaled in his life, the delay possibly throwing all of his alibi out the window, for blaming her.

 

[NothingClever]

There could also be bedding we haven't heard about yet: left in the grave or in the tank(s).

Absolutely agree! I’m just saying it *is* possible that it could also all be from the same set. Some bedding sets have a crap ton of pieces. This will be one of those things we have to wait and see.

 

[rigsby2]

Did anyone find out anything about CW? Childhood? Teenager? Relationships? Anger? College? Any background at all? Big or little family? Golden boy? Anything?¿

Here's a article from The Denver Patch that has a brief interview with his high school teacher, seems he was quite a good student .

Watts was one of the best students I ever had. Oh, my God. This is a shock,' retired teacher Joe Duty told the Fayetteville Observer.

Watts graduated from Pine Forest High School in 2003, according to the Observer. Watts and another senior at Pine Forest placed won $1,000 scholarships to technical institutes in their home states.

"The guy had a photographic memory," Duty remembered. "I said, 'Chris, if I ever had a student who was going to be tremendously successful, it's you.'"

According to Duty's recollection, Watts in high school aspired to be a NASCAR crew chief technician.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Here's a article from The Denver Patch that has a brief interview with his high school teacher, seems he was quite a good student .

Watts was one of the best students I ever had. Oh, my God. This is a shock,' retired teacher Joe Duty told the Fayetteville Observer.

Watts graduated from Pine Forest High School in 2003, according to the Observer. Watts and another senior at Pine Forest placed won $1,000 scholarships to technical institutes in their home states.

"The guy had a photographic memory," Duty remembered. "I said, 'Chris, if I ever had a student who was going to be tremendously successful, it's you.'"

According to Duty's recollection, Watts in high school aspired to be a NASCAR crew chief technician.

Looks like he wasted his own life too, then. SMDH

 

[borndem]

Ok. I just want to clarify because I would love to discuss whether there exists, based on the facts we know thus far, any doubt that can be "reasonable".

The way your post phrases it is as if you feel there already exists doubt that is likely reasonable, as opposed to worrying that a jury might find such.

Ok. I just want to clarify because I would love to discuss whether there exists, based on the facts we know thus far, any doubt that can be "reasonable".

The way your post phrases it is as if you feel there already exists doubt that is likely reasonable, as opposed to worrying that a jury might find such.

IMO, once the jury hears where the children were found -- on the property of his employer, and that they were thrown into the oil/gas tanks, and her body found close by, I just can't see a doubt as to who put them there. Further, I don't think the jury will hear of Shanann being short-tempered or mean or vindictive enuff to kill her children after hearing that he wanted to separate. She was excited about her job, and she was excited about the new baby. And I don't see her being that upset about a separation. I just don't think it will sell.

 

[kittycat3]

Yes, to put those clean, innocent little girls in dirty and dark oil is just unforgivable IMO.

This is why I know he is guilty.

To those that think C.W. is telling truth about SW and strangling the kids, I’m curious what you think his rationale is for dumping his children’s bodies like this?
I don’t buy the whole “he wanted to spare her family pain” BS. Nobody would be so “altruistic” that to spare their in laws pain they would be willing to go so far as to dump their children’s bodies in oil tank. So what was the logic?