CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #13

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Here you can see the concrete pad at bottom of deck stairs. If you look at the house next door you can see there's not enough clearance for a door but you can see windows. The houses look like they are same elevation, so we can assume same clearance. I'll see if I can find a better pic.

That's a very common design in Colorado. They grade the lots so that the front is higher and ground level is the same as first floor, but in the back the ground level is lower so the basement windows get more light.

Half-a-million doesn't get you much backyard, does it?
 
Not quite such a stretch as this though. Because she had a lot of clothes, she has Bi-Polar.
BPD=Borderline Personality Disorder. That became a thing early on in the threads, even though I see no evidence that SW suffered from such. People with BPD have mega-instability in their interpersonal relationships, including friendships, and it seemed she had a pretty solid social life. You wouldn't see that in someone suffering from BPD, especially severe enough to take her kids out because of it.
 
Just a quick post about the significance of this anonymous person and it being 10 months prior and having no bearing on the case. That is definitely true, it wasn't a current situation and not connected directly to CW's frame of mind at the moment of the murders. However, if it is a true account, I think that is what makes it a valuable aspect of the case because is shows a pattern of deceit and a complexity of CW's state of mind. It would demonstrate an internal struggle and a conflict within his life albeit internally. So I do think it relates to the case currently. I also believe that where there is smoke there is fire and there has to be more going on and likely partners, then even close family and friends knew especially SW sadly.

That makes sense.
 
I have a question about financial strain . I know it seems as if her job was doing well but I also see posts from her SM that show Lularoe . Was she working that as well? That along with the other job could cause hardships financially and strain of time away from family. Not implying in anyway she deserved
Shanann Watts
Shanann Watts
Shanann Watts
 

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OK before I watch the video again I want to hone in on one thing that was very apparent to me. I do think it has extreme significance as to SW's character especially since he has now accused HER of murdering her children.

SW states that PRIOR to being diagnosed with lupus (at 25) she had already gone through a rough divorce and was feeling low. Needing to build back up her confidence she worked her butt off and managed to save enough money to purchase her own house.

**** This is important information when considering who was SW? So her marriage fails, she feels like crap and needs to find a way to rebuild her life as the road she was on got detoured. She claims it was a good relationship that went bad. Possible or maybe not. She never gives her age for when she married nor ex-hubby's age either. We know she was young, how young was he? Why does it matter? It does because what her expectations were when she married so young would give a glimpse into the direction she was steering her life in. Was he a professional older guy, was he just older and had a decent job, owned his own home etc. Did he come from money? Was he just a young kid too perhaps highschool sweethearts that outgrew each other and it ended badly?

**** After her marriage ended and she is building her life back up she wants to feel like she is achieving something. Understandable. Not saying this is the case but often divorced women in MY time beyond dealing with the emotion and pain caused by a break up, there are other factors as well. $$ and lifestyle's often changed drastically after divorce especially if the husband had either already established himself prior to meeting or did so during the marriage...a home purchased, cars etc. They had no children so their disposable income had to have gone somewhere. Did her lifestyle change so much so that it bothered her. I just find it curious that her goal became purchasing a home to build back her self esteem. Why? Did she lose a home during divorce and having that happen made her feel she was not an accomplished person without him? That might motivate me.

However it went that home purchase was HUGE for her. She even states how hard she worked and how proud she was that she was able to do it all on her own. Absolutely, 1000% credit there. Shows absolute dedication and willingness to work hard to achieve her goals which leads me to another conclusion. I do not know her parents financial status but it seems very apparent to me that a solid work ethic was already instilled in her PRIOR to her ever joining THRIVE. This was a deep seated habit of hers that only comes as a result of being taught it by example from her parents, having it further encouraged by her parents and believing she had the ability and power to do achieve this so she made it a goal...she totally achieved it.

**** Even more revealing is what she mentions happened to her after her lupus diagnoses. She already had her house. She is basically on top of the world and motivated. Her future ON HER OWN looks bright. Then bam, she finds out she has this very serious issue. She then goes on to describe what a hard time she had with it AND how difficult it was to be diagnosed with something that others basically can't see. Autoimmune disease gives is within your entire body. It isn't like heart disease or emphasema where someone suffering will have visable symptoms such as shortness of breath, heart pain where someone might hold their chest etc and these type of illness don't necessarily result in you losing sleep due to pain. You take your pills or oxygen and soon you feel some sort of relief and can carry on. NOT the case with autoimmune diseases such as lupus. You can literally have nights where you do not sleep a single minute. I have such a problem so I learned to force myself to remain laying down and keep my eyes closed so in the very least, there is some form of rest all though no recuperative sleep. That had to have happened to her at one point or another.

****Her full explanation leads me to believe her coworkers, boss etc were not very sympathetic to her during this time and actually gossipped about or questioned if she was really ill or not and just making it up. Oh it happens. I've had several people INCLUDING doctors that should know better suggest to me it was all in my mind. This happened especially in my early years as I had RLS since age 5 and my mom was taking me from doctor to doctor. I was diagnosed with juvenile arthritis at 5. I do not think that was a proper diagnoses :( but it was what was given and I basically was told to live with it and take baby aspirin which gave me zero relief from the pain. So SW says she quit her job basically because she could not work the hours she had before. A job she states that she had for 9 years. This is VERY good evidence of her character and great work ethic. If she was diagnosed at 25 and left a job she had for 9 years that means she started at 16. I don't know many 16 year olds making big bucks. So was she promoted often during this time frame, work her way up if you will where she ended up making decent money or was she always earning a lower level income which is why she "worked her butt off". If that is the case it sounds like an hourly job that she may have earned overtime or some type of job where she received a base pay and commission. Either way, she was a solid, dependable worker. Says VOLUMES about who she was from a very young age.

****Also important to note that in her testimonial after her divorce when she is looking to build herself back up she mentions school. That is what many young people having been recently divorced would consider in order to get back on their feet and invest in their future. She is very open about this and states she was never a good student. She mentions that it took her more effort to do well in school then other people. At this point (which I found very telling) she bring Chris into her story as a comparison to herself. She says Chris can read something and basically get it all with very little effort on his part. What was a struggle for her came easy to him. Now all of this is in the context that she is attempting to build herself up. So my initial thought was her ex was critical of her and perhaps used her learning issues as a weapon against her. I brushed that aside though because she referred to the relationship as a good one that went bad. Not impossible he used this against her but in the very least, in the early days he did not. Perhaps the marriage ended because he cheat on her and wanted out. That she used Chris as an example at this stage of her story when she had yet to even meet him at this time is very curious. It does suggest to me that perhaps this WAS something he did to her...verbally abuse her by demeaning her ability to learn/emotional abuse. To me, this is the first inkling that he was abusive to her.

Finally, what I recognized right off the bat...how vulnerable she was when she met him. Recently divorced and just told she has a serious chronic issue that is going to have a big impact on her future. I met my abuser at my lowest time as well. I too was open and honest about where I was at. Enough for now though. I will address this later in another post because this one is getting too long.
 
My narcissist ex identified as bi-sexual. He was up for ANYTHING. I mean, ANYTHING. Choking, threesomes (but only with other men), BDSM, some stuff I don't want to mention on a public forum in case some would be offended, or too young to know of such things. I mean, I could tell you things he did to me that would make your jaws drop, and he did them without consent. He also recorded raping me, and told his friends he had a super kinky video of us. Like he was proud of it.

CW may have been attracted to both sexes. He may have only wanted to marry a woman, and have his boys on the side. There are plenty of men out there like that.

Yup. The down low.
 
Because she had a lot of clothing? Pretty slim evidence to me.
I wouldn't like you to see my walk in closet.

Nor mine. I have 3. And just because they are nice clothes it doesn't mean they're expensive. I shop thrift stores and sales.

Mental health problems are a huge issue in this country. We are just now moving past the stigma but getting the proper treatment remains a problem. I just feel uncomfortable when people internet diagnose others through social media. It's already difficult to get the right diagnosis and for people to take mental healthcare seriously.
 
I have a question about financial strain . I know it seems as if her job was doing well but I also see posts from her SM that show Lularoe . Was she working that as well? That along with the other job could cause hardships financially and strain of time away from family. Not implying in anyway she deserved
Shanann Watts
Shanann Watts
Shanann Watts

Ugh. I think that stuff is crap and was it here where I read how they have multiple law suits because the people sucked into this end up paying in advance for loads of inventory they can't get rid of?

And the company eventually said they'd buy it back but they don't always and it's super hard to get that to happen?

From what people have sleuthed it does seem they had financial strain. A lot. And that probably played into this. As well as affairs. Maybe SW being more independent. But primarily that CW has a defective soul because no one with a normal soul obviously does what he did, with any or even all of those factors in play, unless they go completely bonkers, which you would be able to easily tell by how they acted afterward.
 
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I'm seriously sick of 'Shanann's fake SM life'. I BELIEVE SHANANN'S GLOW CAME FROM INSIDE! It's not hard to notice :)
I'm sure it is very hard to hear those comments about her SM being fake, especially for friends & family who were close to them both! I do agree that her glow came from within and she was excellent at lifting people up and maintaining a positive outlook. But I do feel that she knew a different side of CW. JMO
 
I can’t keep up with this thread. Y’all are too quick! I don’t know if its already been said, but earlier on HLN they said they were going to see if the alleged mister (is that the right word?) would come back on Ashleigh Banfield this evening. Just a heads up if any one was interested as to what might be said tonight.

Edit: He had to cancel at the top of the hour as he’s currently speaking to LE, but there is a lot of new information I wasn’t aware of.
 
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The picture is the evidence.
Are you familiar with the DSM-V? A neat closet doesn't meet the criteria for any mental illness, personality disorder, or mood disorder. It means she had a well-stocked, and very organized closet, period.

Professionals have a hard enough time diagnosing patients after seeing them multiple times. People on the internet have no business diagnosing anyone based on SM photos.
 
Like another poster said - it's hard to find time to watch a 31 minute video. I'm so glad that you did, @AgeofAquaruis
You seem to have CW pegged, and agree on every sentence you wrote.

I'm so glad I watched this one the whole way through. Really recommend posters to watch this.
It is just 31 minutes of Shanann's life, thoughts and shows us how much she loves her life & family.♡

Thank you, @margarita25 for reposting this video. It somehow slipped past me in all of these threads. Thanks to the original poster, also!
I was married to a sociopath for nearly 25 years. Finally walked away. I didn't even realize he was a sociopath until a year and a half after I left. It took that long for the fog to lift,but once it did boy did it ever.
 
I have a question about financial strain . I know it seems as if her job was doing well but I also see posts from her SM that show Lularoe . Was she working that as well? That along with the other job could cause hardships financially and strain of time away from family. Not implying in anyway she deserved
Shanann Watts
Shanann Watts
Shanann Watts
I wonder if she was doing this to help a friend who sold LLR, in exchange for help selling Thrive. A lot of times there are connections between people who work for MLMs, and often people work for more than one. I believe SW was selling jewelry or make up for an MLM before she switched to Le-Vel.
 
Ugh. I think that stuff is crap and was it here where I read how they have multiple law suits because the people sucked into this end up paying in advance for loads of inventory they can't get rid of?

And the company eventually said they'd buy it back but they don't always and it's super hard to get that to happen?

From what people have sleuthed it does seem they had financial strain. A lot. And that probably played into this. As well as affairs. Maybe SW being more independent. But primarily that CW has a defective soul because no one with abnormal soul obviously does what he did, with any or even all of those factors in play, unless they go completely bonkers, which you would be able to easily tell by how they acted afterward.
I completely agree. For a family with significant financial strain, Shannan’s MLM business probably didn’t help things.

I believe CW to be a sociopath, who killed his wife in a fit of rage. The affairs may or may not play a role here, but for now, I think the financial hardships that they were facing, were the primary stressor and motivation to this crime.

What’s especially sick, is that if this were initially a crime of passion, the killing of the kids shows what a heartless monster this guy is. “I lost it on my wife so I killed my entire family,” doesn’t fly.
 
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