Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[NuttMegg]

I'm not an expert however if the bodies were dead when he dumped them in the oil they would not be able to "ingest" oil, but I hope an expert can expand on this.

It WAS discussed here quite early on that CW may have transferred DNA from SW to the children's necks, that's why the defense team requested a DNA search on their necks. All this is just my NON EXPERT MOO.

I was wondering about that too. Probably IF they were well wrapped in garbage bags and the bags were not scratched open when he dumped them, no oil would reach their mouths within a few days (IMO). But, if they were dead when placed in there, and not wrapped in sealed garbage bags this is what I wonder: is the pressure of the crude enough to push the oil down their throats and to the stomach? IE is the pressure of the crude oil more than the pressure of their bodies, in those areas.

 

[Amandaaa]

I think the only possible way for the jury to believe CW's story is if the DNA/handprints from the girls or the DNA from under CW's nails is proved not to belong to him. If it proves it is him, he might as well take a plea and say hello to the rest of his life at the GrayBar Hotel. JMO

If he claims he tried to resuscitate them, it could explain his DNA (not necessarily handprints, though)

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Yes. They can call the dad/grandfather.

Posts move so quickly, I thought you were talking about him, versus the grandfather. Versus the girls father/suspect

Thank you sorry ...I moved back up to find the origin of your comment and I realized I was mistaken, thank you for being so kind in your reply.

 

[MyBelle]

If she suffered a heart attack, why would her husband need to bury her and pretend she ran off?

Because CW laid his hands on her there would be no way for him to know she had an MI. JMO

 

[nwmouse]

I was wondering about that too. Probably IF they were well wrapped in garbage bags and the bags were not scratched open when he dumped them, no oil would reach their mouths in a few days (IMO). But, if they were dead when placed in there, and not wrapped in sealed garbage bags this is what I wonder: is the pressure of the crude enough to push the oil down their throats and to the stomach? IE is the pressure of the crude oil more than the pressure of their bodies, in those areas.

That is a GREAT question. I thought that to ingest something into the lungs/stomach the victim would have to be alive to swallow/breathe in. I have a feeling this case is going to be landmark in more ways than one.

 

[nwmouse]

Because CW laid his hands on her there would be no way for him to know she had an MI. JMO

Eek, having a brain fart. What is an MI??

 

[Deleted member 230544]

Maybe he had a coughing fit. Who knows?

I just think that with everything CW said, there are small grains of truth in it and with what he is relaying to news and LE. Some aspects of what he said must have some measure of truth in it and that is why he relies on those tidbits of truth and puts them forward in his story to anchor him or give him some security in his train of thought . IE. emotional conversation, going downstairs, etc So, I was just speculating if what CW was saying was true, what purpose did he have at that point in time to go downstairs. It could be nothing or it could be something important and germane to the case.

 

[Lucyray]

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I'm sorry that you feel this way. That said, I agree with you! Being in the minority (at this point) makes me sit on my hands and just watch. Seems most people here have their minds already made up, which is human nature. After all, this is a very heinous crime. Whew! It would be easier if one of them had some history of creepy behavior, but they don't. Well, that is until one reads here all of the attributes we are all so very sure of. I hope that soon we have more information to clarify what really happened. Until then, I am glad there are so many interested and intelligent contributors. Peace to all.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Do you think CW asked for the DNA swabs of the children’s necks and hands because he took Shanann’s hands and put them around the children’s deck after all 4 were dead? And scraped Shanann’s or the children’s nails onto each other? Maybe he strangled the children with pillow cases, so his own prints/DNA aren’t on them? Why ask for the swab, unless he knows his DNA won’t be found on the children? I feel like it’s giving him too much credit that he put them in the tanks to cover up DNA. Is he so forensicslly smart that he knows the oil will wipe out any DNA evidence?

And would ingested oil mess up the ME’s ability to get an accurate look at how far along the stomach contents from Sunday were?

Following the Oscar Pistorius trial, I hope we never have to follow another trial where it depends on stomach contents!

That was all over the place what some folks thought was standard science, versus what was thrown out in that case.

 

[nwmouse]

I just think that with everything CW said, there are small grains of truth in it and with what he is relaying to news and LE. Some aspects of what he said must have some measure of truth in it and that is why he relies on those tidbits of truth and puts them forward in his story. So, I was just speculating if what CW was saying was true, what purpose did he have at that point in time to go downstairs. It could be nothing or it could be something important and germane to the case.

I agree. CW doesn't come across as an arrogant psycho like Scott Peterson. He's definitely not as confident and he's a lousy liar. Probably grains of truth mixed in with the lies and some things may be completely innocuous like getting a glass of water downstairs. It will be an interesting trial!

 

[Jennifer17]

Because CW laid his hands on her there would be no way for him to know she had an MI. JMO

But he has admitted to strangling her. Everyone dies when their heart stops beating whether from external violence or disease.

 

[katydid23]

Because CW laid his hands on her there would be no way for him to know she had an MI. JMO

Well, if she had a heart attack because she was being strangled, then it is a moot point. That would still be murder, by him.

 

[NuttMegg]

That is a GREAT question. I thought that to ingest something into the lungs/stomach the victim would have to be alive to swallow/breathe in. I have a feeling this case is going to be landmark in more ways than one.

Here's where my ignorance of anatomy comes in, but it might go into the lungs instead? Or both, if the pressure is enough, if the mouth is open, etc. Many threads ago someone posted the characteristics of the crude in those tanks, ie it was not heated. But then the source also said it was under some pressure, I think they said ambient pressure. The gas given off by the crude would probably go out of some piping, so as not to build up too much pressure in the tank, but how much pressure would remain in the product. I really don't know but have wondered that. Probably someone's oil industry wife/husband can tell us if that has any validity at all.

 

[katydid23]

If he claims he tried to resuscitate them, it could explain his DNA (not necessarily handprints, though)

If the affidavits accurately portray his explanation, there would be no time for his to try to revive the babies.

How long would it take for him to strangle his wife to death? From what I understand, it takes 4 to 5 minutes.

If he spent those precious minutes, strangling SW, his baby would have slipped away before there was anything he could do.

 

[charminglane]

Eek, having a brain fart. What is an MI??

Myocardial Infarction

 

[MassGuy]

Well, if she had a heart attack because she was being strangled, then it is a moot point. That would still be murder, by him.

Very true. One of Eric Rudolph’s victims in the Olympic Park bombing, died of a heart attack. He was charged with murder for that.

 

[nwmouse]

Here's where my ignorance of anatomy comes in, but it might go into the lungs instead? Or both, if the pressure is enough, if the mouth is open, etc. Many threads ago someone posted the characteristics of the crude in those tanks, ie it was not heated. But then the source also said it was under some pressure, I think they said ambient pressure. The gas given off by the crude would probably go out of some piping, so as not to build up too much pressure in the tank, but how much pressure would remain in the product. I really don't know but have wondered that. Probably someone's oil industry wife/husband can tell us if that has any validity at all.

This is such a crucial question and I hope we can get someone to weigh in on it. AFAIK when there is a fire and the victim is dead beforehand they can determine it because there was no smoke inhalation into the lungs? Perhaps this will be the case for the crude oil?

 

[nwmouse]

Myocardial Infarction

Thank you! I'm going senile

 

[MassGuy]

This is such a crucial question and I hope we can get someone to weigh in on it. AFAIK when there is a fire and the victim is dead beforehand they can determine it because there was no smoke inhalation into the lungs? Perhaps this will be the case for the crude oil?

Yes. The same applies for victims who are submerged in water. Science can determine if they were dead or not before they entered the water, based on fluid in the lungs.

 

[Deleted member 230544]

I agree. CW doesn't come across as an arrogant psycho like Scott Peterson. He's definitely not as confident and he's a lousy liar. Probably grains of truth mixed in with the lies and some things may be completely innocuous like getting a glass of water downstairs. It will be an interesting trial!

Agree @nwmouse, but I don't think it was confirmed that CW was getting water downstairs only that CW "walked downstairs for a moment" .
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...18CR2003/001/Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.pdf