Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #46

[TL4S]

I trust LE and the court to determine what significance, if any, his mental health played in the murder, but I guess what it comes down to for me isn't whether or not his blocked memories story is true (which I think it is not), but what the story tells us about the possible timeline of events.

 

[TL4S]

Thinking again... I think we all have been assuming or thinking that we are going to find out there was a sexual assault. What if there wasn't? What if it was sexually motivated but he did fly into a rage and just killed her instead. Then his "black out" would have been pulling out his knife and stabbing her repeatedly. How long could that have been? 2 minutes? A 30 second blackout?

Why didn't he "come to" out of his rage blackout when he stopped stabbing her. When he saw her lifeless body on the road? While he was picking her up and putting her in the car? While he was calmly driving down the road? Seems like this black out is really precise and not related to the times when your heart rate would actually spike out of anger and rage and calm down after the incident is over. If I were going to make up a black out defense I think I would time it to encompass physical reaction times.

(All JMO, it's a slow Saturday morning at the Alethea home)

Yes! I've asked myself that...why such a long black out time? It doesn't make sense, considering he ultimately led LE to her body. What happened between 385th and the cornfield, along that 15-20 minute drive, that he doesn't want to talk about? To tell you the truth, I highly doubted a sexual assault previously. I thought he flew into a rage at 385th, stabbed her right then and there, and that was it. But the more I think about the timeline, the more my thoughts are going in a different direction.

7:45 - 8:28 is a long time, if they have precise TOD due to FitBit or something. And the 8:28 doesn't necessarily have to be at 385th or the cornfield, so we don't know how long CR's claimed blackout might have lasted.

That's why, between CR's description of events, the timing of his blackout, the time range on the affidavit, and that southern POI on LE's map, I feel inclined to at least consider a third location as the place he killed her. And if that is the case, it also indicates a higher likelihood of a SA occurring there, as well, because he took her off a main road, and he had the time. JMO.

 

[Confusion]

I'm still hung up on 385th Ave. and 200th St. mainly because it just seems like it would be a good place to assault someone, but also because it was one of the spots on LE's map. To me, the 1900 block would be anywhere along that block, not necessarily right at the beginning which some people seem to be thinking. My theory (for quite a while now) has been that he approached her along 385th, and chased her down almost to 200th. He could have then dragged her into the cornfields on the corner and assaulted her there, whether sexually or just physically. Because there was a chance that someone saw his car sitting there, or maybe even saw him chasing her down the road, he got his car, went back to the cornfield and threw her in the trunk. She may or may not have been dead at that time, but I believe she was when he took her out. He may have been heading for home, which is why he went past his place, but decided he had to get rid of her first (all during his big black out, of course!). Instead of stopping, he kept going until he could find a safer place to get rid of her. There's no doubt in my mind that if she hadn't been dead when he opened the trunk, he would have killed her then. All I can say is that if he did black out during the assault/murder, I believe he became aware of what was happening long before he says he did. MOO

 

[TL4S]

I'm still hung up on 385th Ave. and 200th St. mainly because it just seems like it would be a good place to assault someone, but also because it was one of the spots on LE's map. To me, the 1900 block would be anywhere along that block, not necessarily right at the beginning which some people seem to be thinking. My theory (for quite a while now) has been that he approached her along 385th, and chased her down almost to 200th. He could have then dragged her into the cornfields on the corner and assaulted her there, whether sexually or just physically. Because there was a chance that someone saw his car sitting there, or maybe even saw him chasing her down the road, he got his car, went back to the cornfield and threw her in the trunk. She may or may not have been dead at that time, but I believe she was when he took her out. He may have been heading for home, which is why he went past his place, but decided he had to get rid of her first (all during his big black out, of course!). Instead of stopping, he kept going until he could find a safer place to get rid of her. There's no doubt in my mind that if she hadn't been dead when he opened the trunk, he would have killed her then. All I can say is that if he did black out during the assault/murder, I believe he became aware of what was happening long before he says he did. MOO

Yes, this is pretty much my thoughts for a long time, too. Especially since 1900 block of 385th is the only location listed on the affidavit. We also know per affidavit that he made a statement about putting her in his trunk, so depending on if he said that happened before he "blocked" his "memories," or after, would either show he killed her elsewhere, or debunk his story entirely. JMO

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I believe the defense will at least st this point try a defense of “not having the capacity to understand” defense. Not a mental disease, but for lack of a better term

Stupidity Defense

The defense will try to have confession thrown out because CR WAS SCARED OF POLICE and lacked the wherewithal to know he didn’t have to speak with them at all. In other words he didn’t understand Miranda.

But he could play video games,

He could follow MT,

He could kill her with a sharp object,

And He could hide her body in the perfect place.

See Helmon Betwell pleaded guilty to murder in Dubuque.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I'm still hung up on 385th Ave. and 200th St. mainly because it just seems like it would be a good place to assault someone, but also because it was one of the spots on LE's map. To me, the 1900 block would be anywhere along that block, not necessarily right at the beginning which some people seem to be thinking. My theory (for quite a while now) has been that he approached her along 385th, and chased her down almost to 200th. He could have then dragged her into the cornfields on the corner and assaulted her there, whether sexually or just physically. Because there was a chance that someone saw his car sitting there, or maybe even saw him chasing her down the road, he got his car, went back to the cornfield and threw her in the trunk. She may or may not have been dead at that time, but I believe she was when he took her out. He may have been heading for home, which is why he went past his place, but decided he had to get rid of her first (all during his big black out, of course!). Instead of stopping, he kept going until he could find a safer place to get rid of her. There's no doubt in my mind that if she hadn't been dead when he opened the trunk, he would have killed her then. All I can say is that if he did black out during the assault/murder, I believe he became aware of what was happening long before he says he did. MOO

First, it’s obvious that LE had the Fitbit data by the time those area alerts were shared. If they had videos they would have questioned Rivera sooner.

As far as the other areas of interest, even if MT vitals had slowed or ceased, the Fitbit could have kept trying to send info to her cell phone until the preprogrammed default stopped.

And Rivera could have removed it, turned it off and dumped the cell and the Fitbit. I think a person could really end a cell signal of any kind if it was smashed to pieces and thrown in water.


Second, I don’t believe the blackout. I think he knows what he did and he remembers every detail. I believe he assaulted her and I believe he knew the perfect place to hide her at least until the harvest crew came in. I believe he hoped there would be little left to determine who had murdered her.

All imo

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I think the purpose of the brief summary typed on the affidavit was only to provide just enough detail to support the arrest warrant for 1st degree murder. One paragraph cannot possibly be the full transcript as LE said CR was cooperative and interviewed for “many” hours.

Maybe it was LE who left out a lot of important information? For example, it was during the press conference that Rahn mentioned CR chased Molly after she took off running, following her asking him to leave her alone and threatening to call police. That Mollie attempted to flee and he admitted to chasing her is quite an important detail although it didn’t appear in the affidavit.

Police training is very specific. Share nothing but what is required.

And that’s what the affidavit does perfectly.

 

[Confusion]

First, it’s obvious that LE had the Fitbit data by the time those area alerts were shared. If they had videos they would have questioned Rivera sooner.

As far as the other areas of interest, even if MT vitals had slowed or ceased, the Fitbit could have kept trying to send info to her cell phone until the preprogrammed default stopped.

And Rivera could have removed it, turned it off and dumped the cell and the Fitbit. I think a person could really end a cell signal of any kind if it was smashed to pieces and thrown in water.


Second, I don’t believe the blackout. I think he knows what he did and he remembers every detail. I believe he assaulted her and I believe he knew the perfect place to hide her at least until the harvest crew came in. I believe he hoped there would be little left to determine who had murdered her.

All imo

Not sure what this has to do with what I wrote, but okay.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Helmon Betwell...what an evil thing. These cases sorely test my religious teachings.
[snip]
He said he saw the woman, knocked her out and took her to the vacant propery. He said he "hit her everywhere" and sexually assaulted her. He said that when he left and later returned, he saw the woman had crawled to the grass so he began to hit her again.

Betwell, Helmon

 

[Confusion]

Yes, this is pretty much my thoughts for a long time, too. Especially since 1900 block of 385th is the only location listed on the affidavit. We also know per affidavit that he made a statement about putting her in his trunk, so depending on if he said that happened before he "blocked" his "memories," or after, would either show he killed her elsewhere, or debunk his story entirely. JMO

I reread the affidavit, for about the 10th time, and it finally hit me what was so odd about his comment about putting her in the trunk. Again, covering his *advertiser censored*, he didn't say that he remembered putting her in the trunk; what he said was that seeing the earbud is what "made him realize he put her in the trunk". It's not important in most ways, but even there he seemed to be careful not to say that he remembered doing it. If this is really his first time in this situation, and he's as naive/ignorant as his attorneys are trying to paint him, I'd say with a working brain he'd really be dangerous! It would still have made more sense to me to just deny everything from the start, but there may be a method to his madness. MOO

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Not sure what this has to do with what I wrote, but okay.

Oh perhaps I misunderstood. I’ll go back and read your post again. I thought you were inferring that you didn’t know why le had asked for help with those particular locations.

I misunderstood.

EEK. I TOUCHED THE WRONG POST. I UNDER STAND YOUR CONFUSION CONFUSION

 

[Alethea]

I reread the affidavit, for about the 10th time, and it finally hit me what was so odd about his comment about putting her in the trunk. Again, covering his *advertiser censored*, he didn't say that he remembered putting her in the trunk; what he said was that seeing the earbud is what "made him realize he put her in the trunk". It's not important in most ways, but even there he seemed to be careful not to say that he remembered doing it. If this is really his first time in this situation, and he's as naive/ignorant as his attorneys are trying to paint him, I'd say with a working brain he'd really be dangerous! It would still have made more sense to me to just deny everything from the start, but there may be a method to his madness. MOO

That's a good point. I'm really interested in seeing the interrogation tapes. I hope they play them during the trial. I think how the interrogation went down may have influenced what exactly he said. If they had to tease information out of him, where he first denied, then gave a little, then gave a little, then "I guess I realized she was in the trunk" I think that is different than him calming phrasing what happened in these third-person liability-minimizing ways.

I could be wrong but I've been thinking this was a very drawn-out process where they caught him in lies or presented evidence he coudln't refute and he wore down to this story over time. I think it started with I have no idea who she is or what happened to her and ended with leading LE to the body. What came between will be interesting to see.

 

[TL4S]

I reread the affidavit, for about the 10th time, and it finally hit me what was so odd about his comment about putting her in the trunk. Again, covering his *advertiser censored*, he didn't say that he remembered putting her in the trunk; what he said was that seeing the earbud is what "made him realize he put her in the trunk". It's not important in most ways, but even there he seemed to be careful not to say that he remembered doing it. If this is really his first time in this situation, and he's as naive/ignorant as his attorneys are trying to paint him, I'd say with a working brain he'd really be dangerous! It would still have made more sense to me to just deny everything from the start, but there may be a method to his madness. MOO

Your right, his words do seem careful. I agree with what Alethea said that the interrogation might have been drawn-out and these things slowly pulled from him. I, too, am curious why in the end he confessed anything and led them to her. Maybe it was the interrogation process. I wonder how LE reacted to his blocked memories story.

 

[Al Hoffman]

Yes! I've asked myself that...why such a long black out time? It doesn't make sense, considering he ultimately led LE to her body. What happened between 385th and the cornfield, along that 15-20 minute drive, that he doesn't want to talk about? To tell you the truth, I highly doubted a sexual assault previously. I thought he flew into a rage at 385th, stabbed her right then and there, and that was it. But the more I think about the timeline, the more my thoughts are going in a different direction.

7:45 - 8:28 is a long time, if they have precise TOD due to FitBit or something. And the 8:28 doesn't necessarily have to be at 385th or the cornfield, so we don't know how long CR's claimed blackout might have lasted.

That's why, between CR's description of events, the timing of his blackout, the time range on the affidavit, and that southern POI on LE's map, I feel inclined to at least consider a third location as the place he killed her. And if that is the case, it also indicates a higher likelihood of a SA occurring there, as well, because he took her off a main road, and he had the time. JMO.

A second crime scene like the Hog Finishing Facility (adjacent to the property owned by WC, the former owner of the "hog farm")? Where LE were certain that there was a "final" digital footprint (a ping) from MT's electronic gear.

I watched a local TV video clip of a very frustrated LEO, saying that this was the last digital "ping" that they had received from MT, implying that LE had expected to find something if not MT herself. (no, I don't have a link).

There is nothing that says CR was finished with his evening by 20:28. The only implication of the Arrest Warrant Application, is that the Homocide portion of the crime was finished by that time.

CR could have easily stopped at the " hog farm, looked in the trunk to check on his prize, do his thing (SA?, murder?, necrophilia?), disable the phone (the final digital footprint) and THEN drive to the corn field body dump site, with the overnight rain washing away any trace of his presence at the "hog farm".

 

[Followfacts]

Helmon Betwell...what an evil thing. These cases sorely test my religious teachings.
[snip]
He said he saw the woman, knocked her out and took her to the vacant propery. He said he "hit her everywhere" and sexually assaulted her. He said that when he left and later returned, he saw the woman had crawled to the grass so he began to hit her again.

Betwell, Helmon

Sickens me this case as do many. To be attacked, sexually assaulted, beaten and left for dead or killed due to ??? in the minds of these deprived animals. The majority are superior to these low life animals in every part of their existence and still they can be knocked out, beaten, assaulted and killed. Violence is all they got... like some Neanderthal primitive subspecies.

Fortunately there are good men and women that are evolved and hold these low life animals accountable with a legal process and institutions to confine these offenders. It’s not a perfect system, but imagine life as a woman, man or child without these professionals. LE can thank each other all day long (personally I am ecstatic these agencies/Department’s work well together) because without this wall of blue out there, we would all be personally subjected to this animal behavior running amok in our lives on a daily basis. Every victim deserves justice and though not perfect someone is working the case.

 

[Followfacts]

A second crime scene like the Hog Finishing Facility (adjacent to the property owned by WC, the former owner of the "hog farm")? Where LE were certain that there was a "final" digital footprint (a ping) from MT's electronic gear.

I watched a local TV video clip of a very frustrated LEO, saying that this was the last digital "ping" that they had received from MT, implying that LE had expected to find something if not MT herself. (no, I don't have a link).

There is nothing that says CR was finished with his evening by 20:28. The only implication of the Arrest Warrant Application, is that the Homocide portion of the crime was finished by that time.

CR could have easily stopped at the " hog farm, looked in the trunk to check on his prize, do his thing (SA?, murder?, necrophilia?), disable the phone (the final digital footprint) and THEN drive to the corn field body dump site, with the overnight rain washing away any trace of his presence at the "hog farm".

When he said dragged her by foot does that mean she was standing up or he was holding her up and pulling her along.. that could be part of this location if he SA her and killed her at hog farm, where the last ping was noted , 20:28 homicide.
To me the carry her body over his shoulder part sounds like she was dead and he was dumping her body in the cornfield at the final location.

 

[Confusion]

When he said dragged her by foot does that mean she was standing up or he was holding her up and pulling her along.. that could be part of this location if he SA her and killed her at hog farm, where the last ping was noted , 20:28 homicide.
To me the carry her body over his shoulder part sounds like she was dead and he was dumping her body in the cornfield at the final location.

When it said that he dragged her on foot, I thought that it just meant that he was walking as opposed to driving. I read it to mean that he started dragging her and finally just threw her over his shoulder and carried her the rest of the way. If there's one thing I have learned, it's never to expect everyone to interpret things the same way as I do. It would be so much easier if it was possible to know what was going on in someone's mind when they make a statement, but I'd sure hate having anyone always know what I'm thinking when I make ambiguous statements.

 

[Niner]

snipped by me....
Thats my hope anyway. Bring on the trial.

Its probably going to be a long wait based on other cases taking up to a couple years or more before any trial starts.

Just an FYI - Trial starts April 16, 2019

 

[Al Hoffman]

When he said dragged her by foot does that mean she was standing up or he was holding her up and pulling her along.. that could be part of this location if he SA her and killed her at hog farm, where the last ping was noted , 20:28 homicide.
To me the carry her body over his shoulder part sounds like she was dead and he was dumping her body in the cornfield at the final location.

With the body laying on the ground. You pick up the feet, and drag the body along. Perhaps the warrant should have said feet.

Or he did walk forward, with his back to the body, dragging her by one foot. The problem is that the leg on the ground may keep catching, so you say "the heck with this", threw her over his shoulder and trudged on into the corn field.

Basically, he dragged her by a single foot and leg. Like a sack across the ground.

 

[tmar]

I believe the defense will at least st this point try a defense of “not having the capacity to understand” defense. Not a mental disease, but for lack of a better term

Stupidity Defense

The defense will try to have confession thrown out because CR WAS SCARED OF POLICE and lacked the wherewithal to know he didn’t have to speak with them at all. In other words he didn’t understand Miranda.

But he could play video games,

He could follow MT,

He could kill her with a sharp object,

And He could hide her body in the perfect place.

See Helmon Betwell pleaded guilty to murder in Dubuque.

It took 3 years for Betwell to confess.
Let us hope, it doesn't take CR so long, to do the same.
It would close the chapter for the Tibbetts family.