Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #30

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I am of the impression that if there was a hidden camera and CW was seen on video murdering everyone in the house, and if he finally came out and admitted doing exactly that, there are people who absolutely would still blame SW. Some people don't realize why they want her to be guilty, but I think some people (not saying this about ANY individual posting in here) do not like her or perhaps do not like her perfectionism or for some hidden reason just plain don't like her and so she will always be at fault. JMO, MOO. Mind boggling to me.

I think some are exploring the possibility SW was responsible because it was put on the table. Even though CW lied and he's not a reliable source it's still not proven one way or another. Until it's proven some like to look at, examine and discuss everything on the table. jmo
 
I am of the impression that if there was a hidden camera and CW was seen on video murdering everyone in the house, and if he finally came out and admitted doing exactly that, there are people who absolutely would still blame SW. Some people don't realize why they want her to be guilty, but I think some people (not saying this about ANY individual posting in here) do not like her or perhaps do not like her perfectionism or for some hidden reason just plain don't like her and so she will always be at fault. JMO, MOO. Mind boggling to me.
I couldn’t say it better, or possibly agree more.

I apparently need to purge my social media, because judging by some of the criticism of SW’s Facebook posts (especially in Facebook groups), mine might paint the picture of an abusive psychopath. I certainly don’t want that.
 
I think the little black box in his truck will tell quite a bit. Back on another thread I saw someone mention he may have had a "back up" camera in the truck. I didn't see the whole thread so forgive if this was already discussed but I wonder if back up cameras record and save the video. Could there be a video of him from the back up camera carrying the bodies to the truck? Or even unloading them at the dump site if he backed in there and left the truck idling?
No. She doesn't have a SM history of ridicule. It is your opinion that those videos evidence ridicule. Many of us disagree. I don't think she was ridiculing Bella in the water gun video. I think she was rough housing with her. And the kid enjoyed it for the most part.

I don't see her ridiculing anyone in any of the videos except possibly in the checkers videos, IF it wasn't usual for her and her husband to banter and tease each other in a competitive manner (which MANY spouses do), and/or her husband wasn't playing along with it and felt uncomfortable.

All of these cherry-picked videos to me are simply examples of differences in how people parent or how people's marriages work. Some people don't act the same way and/or they wouldn't publicly post videos containing such moments. Some people feel there are examples or rudeness or taking it too far. Some don't think any of it is a big deal.

None of it indicates she's mentally ill or abusive.

Perhaps some of it may be an indication of some tension between them. Or maybe CW did feel belittled and that caused a simmering anger.

But IMO that's about the only thing these videos may indicate.
As a person who hasn’t watched these videos and followed the blow by blow moments of their lives, it makes me wonder why would someone ever do that. Maybe it’s because I am in my 50’s, and grew up in a time before social media and when people were humble and private.
 
I couldn’t say it better, or possibly agree more.

I apparently need to purge my social media, because judging by some of the criticism on SW’s Facebook posts, mine might paint the picture of an abusive psychopath. I certainly don’t want that.

Just make sure to delete your SM a week before you commit a heinous crime and it will all be good. ;-)

Edited typo
 
I am of the impression that if there was a hidden camera and CW was seen on video murdering everyone in the house, and if he finally came out and admitted doing exactly that, there are people who absolutely would still blame SW. Some people don't realize why they want her to be guilty, but I think some people (not saying this about ANY individual posting in here) do not like her or perhaps do not like her perfectionism or for some hidden reason just plain don't like her and so she will always be at fault. JMO, MOO. Mind boggling to me.
Its sad, isn't it? A beautiful young woman in her prime, pregnant with a bouncing baby boy on the way, and two adorable girls who were probably very excited to meet their baby brother Niko. Yet people *still* try to blame SW for being murdered with her toddlers, due to cherry-picked fb videos where she played in fun and showed some assertiveness. SMH. What is the world coming to when a pregnant mom and her daughters are murdered, but her social media videos are picked apart and then she is somehow blamed? And you know what else is mind-boggling - that its mainly other women who are picking her apart when we should be advocating for her as a homicide victim? Adding a MOO and also that I am *not* referring to anyone on this forum, just a general opinion.
 
I find a number of amazing people here and intelligent discussion to be the norm. I've read compelling arguments on both sides. I've also been moved by the strong support for SW, as I too feel she and the children to be the victims. The arraignment in November is a ways off, and I'm sure more information will be forthcoming in the meantime, so I'd love to see more investigation and analysis here, because that is what this site and the members here do best!
 
For every article that you can show, that says Timeouts are bad, I can show articles that say they are fine and can be effective and positive. Even for 2 yr olds. For example, from Dr. Sears:

"Language makes time-out for children easier. By two years of age most children understand what time-out means—if they misbehave it’s off to the chair they go. They perceive time-out as a break in their activity, a parent-imposed (logical) consequence of their behavior. The older the child, the more detailed the explanation can be. We started using official time-outs with Lauren when she was eighteen-months-old. She had witnessed many time-outs for Stephen, so when it was her turn she understood clearly what we were doing. We could tell by the gleam in her eye and the alert body language that this little ritual was a special experience, and she got into the spirit of it willingly. She also knew the ritual included an enforced (though brief) time of sitting alone. Stephen needed frequent reminders, so she knew she was expected to stay seated. As soon as the novelty wore off, she was no longer amused."
Techniques for Time-Out for Children | Ask Dr Sears


Ex
perts rarely agree. So we can see that SOME childhood development experts recommend using Timeouts as a tool, while others may not.

But I do think it is unfair to criticize a young mother for using a COMMONLY practiced technique, probably taught to her by her parents, and maybe by her teachers, for dealing with toddler's misbehavior.

Even your excerpt said "“Time-outs may not be the best approach..." That is hardly a rebuke. It does not say 'never give a 2 yr old a time out...' etc.

As for the accusation that SW was 'publicly shaming' her 2 yr old...I say RUBBISH. That is just silly.

But I really have to question your final sentence:

"...but there are many things (this, the Xmas video with her becoming angry with Bella for not enjoying the experience & repeatedly calling her names, the video where she allowed CeCe to put herself in danger climbing to “learn her lesson,” etc) that raise red flags for me knowing what ultimately happened to these children"

I never saw SW as being 'angry' at Bella in the Santa video. I would disagree with that description of what SW was feeling. Nor would I agree with the assessment that SW was 'allowing' CeCe to put herself in danger. CeCe had ALREADY climbed on top of the sink area. Then she began whining because she knew she was stuck. I think SW was wanting CeCe to feel uncomfortable for a minute, to try and prevent her from doing it again in the future. Was that a smart or safe decision? Maybe not, but it wasn't a horrible or cruel one. It was a judgement call, like Moms with small children make every day.

But your final statement===that raise red flags for me knowing what ultimately happened to these children"...


Are you saying that SW putting Bella in a TO, and being frustrated with the Santa video, and allowing CeCe to stay stuck for 30 seconds on the sink area, somehow leads to her brutally strangling her babies?


I was addressing the quoted post that said (paraphrasing) that the TO pics did not equate to inappropriate parenting & I explained why I felt differently. I also stated it was my personal opinion based on my professional knowledge and current AACAP research, and you could take it or leave it.

To be clear, I grew up with spankings & that’s definitely now looked down upon (though plenty of people still do it). I’m not suggesting that anyone who disciplines their children in a way I disagree with is more likely to murder them, which is what I feel like some of you are taking my previous post to mean.

What I am looking at is much more complicated. (Disclaimer: my mind is not made up yet, as I am looking at all possibilities & using my observations & the little information we have available to us to form my opinion).

I’ve noted in many of SW’s posts & videos that she portrays herself as a good parent who is dealing with an ungrateful child/children. The child is either directly or indirectly asking for nurturance & their mother attempts to provide it (sometimes—I also see incidents were it is refused). When that nurturance is somehow rejected, the child is cast as “bad” or “ungrateful.” The parent then withholds affection or even becomes angry with the child.

An example: The Santa video, where Bella & CeCe are scared & indirectly ask for nurturance in their own way, are refused it by their mother. CeCe is hysterical & is ignored. Bella is hesitant and clingy but is made to interact with Santa. She does not enjoy it, and expresses that to her mother (which is entirely appropriate for a child that age to express her autonomy). Her mother then casts Bella as “bad” or “ungrateful” by repeatedly calling her The Grinch.

Does this mean she killed her children? No. Does it raise red flags for me & any other poster here with a psychological background? I believe so.
 
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I don't know if we'll ever have the answers, but IMOO, CW may have gotten into difficult situations before and turned to his dad to help him out. Possibly he has done other risky things we don't know about and his father had to step in to help. Some may come out during trial if its allowed. CW strikes me as a weak character who usually does what he's told to do. This may be why he was attracted to SW, she was an alpha - strong, bold, lively and a leader. Pity it made him feel so insecure and inadequate. Just MOO.
True, although the more I think about it, I believe we've read (or heard her say, in her videos) that when they met, she was in a dark space, depressed, not feeling well physically, and he helped boost her up and stood by her repeatedly time and time again in those dark times until she got to where she is now. Then it occurred to me that how could that have been the case if she was earning a great salary and able to build her own $$$$$ home back then (prior to meeting him) if she could barely get out of bed for 3 hours each day (her words). So my initial thoughts in this case were that he was the stronger one, who pursued her, helped her feel better about herself, and then when she took off and sailed past him, so to speak, he perhaps no longer felt like the strong one.
 
I think some are exploring the possibility SW was responsible because it was put on the table. Even though CW lied and he's not a reliable source it's still not proven one way or another. Until it's proven some like to look at, examine and discuss everything on the table. jmo


Discussing the possibility that CW is innocent is important. I would agree we should always look at possibilities like that.

But pointing to 'evidence' like SW giving her kids a timeout, and then stretching that to say it proves she is into taunting them and shaming them and publicly humiliating them, is just ridiculous.

And pointing to a Christmas video, where she 'forces' her child to sit on Santa/Daddy's lap, which MILLIONS of parents do every year, and then using that as more 'evidence' that she is cold and hateful towards her children is just more nonsense.


Show me something REAL that tells me she was likely to murder her children. Show me something that says she would crumble and freak if she thought he was going to leave her. But don't point to her ignoring a tantrum, as many child development doctors advise parents to do, and try to point to that as meaning she is a cruel, callous parent.
 
I wonder what made CW ask for the separation whole SW was pregnant? He could have carried on the affair and waited til she'd had the baby, not many men would leave at that time would they?
He very well may not have asked. He may have killed Shanann before it got to that point.

He didn’t want a separation, as much as he wanted SW and the kids, gone forever.
 
Discussing the possibility that CW is innocent is important. I would agree we should always look at possibilities like that.

But pointing to 'evidence' like SW giving her kids a timeout, and then stretching that to say it proves she is into taunting them and shaming them and publicly humiliating them, is just ridiculous.

And pointing to a Christmas video, where she 'forces' her child to sit on Santa/Daddy's lap, which MILLIONS of parents do every year, and then using that as more 'evidence' that she is cold and hateful towards her children is just more nonsense.


Show me something REAL that tells me she was likely to murder her children. Show me something that says she would crumble and freak if she thought he was going to leave her. But don't point to her ignoring a tantrum, as many child development doctors advise parents to do, and try to point to that as meaning she is a cruel, callous parent.
And the same Santa/Daddy gets no criticism for not comforting his daughters.
They were sitting on his knee, not hers. Has he no obligation to comfort his upset daughters that he is holding on his knee?
 
Its sad, isn't it? A beautiful young woman in her prime, pregnant with a bouncing baby boy on the way, and two adorable girls who were probably very excited to meet their baby brother Niko. Yet people *still* try to blame SW for being murdered with her toddlers, due to cherry-picked fb videos where she played in fun and showed some assertiveness. SMH. What is the world coming to when a pregnant mom and her daughters are murdered, but her social media videos are picked apart and then she is somehow blamed? And you know what else is mind-boggling - that its mainly other women who are picking her apart when we should be advocating for her as a homicide victim? Adding a MOO and also that I am *not* referring to anyone on this forum, just a general opinion.
Very well said. Bravo! I just want to repeat;

SW was a fighter and she made things better.

There is no evidence SW lied. CW has been caught at, and has admitted to lying!

There is no evidence that SW committed adultery. CW is an admitted adulterer!

There is no evidence that SW ever obstructed justice. CW has admitted to obstructing justice!

There is no evidence SW harmed anyone. CW has admitted killing Shanann and Nico.

There is compelling evidence SW, Bella, Cece, and Nico are victims. There is no evidence that CW is a victim!

How do the scales balance?
 
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I wonder what made CW ask for the separation whole SW was pregnant? He could have carried on the affair and waited til she'd had the baby, not many men would leave at that time would they?
Hopefully this will be answered at trial. Perhaps the AP gave him an ultimatum and said: choose her or me or I'm leaving you.
 
What do you make of CW ‘confessing’ (giving his version of the truth) after being allowed to speak to his father? Is this truth all CW? Did his father influence any part of CW’s description of what happened? Certainly his father knows better than to do that? Did they talk completely privately (no mic, camera, or anyone else in the room)? If so, is that commonly allowed? Will we ever know what they truly discussed (transcript or video)? What do you think would have happened if for some reason CW didn’t get to talk to his father?
My first thought was why didn’t his father tell him to shut his mouth? To get back in that room and not say one more word until he had a lawyer present? But that didn’t happen, I thought maybe CW’s father might be an bonafide honorable man who advised his son to do the right thing, to tell the truth, and pay the consequences whatever they may be. Soon afterwards, SWs brother asked everyone to please pray for both families, he said that they’d all lost love ones, they were all suffering. Since then, I’ve heard very little, except that CWs family did not attend the funeral, and last week it was said on AB and in People Magazine about C.W., “ “He sleeps all day and isn’t really talking to anyone, including his family.” What does this mean? Has his father disowned him? Don’t know. 'Depression Is Setting in' for Chris Watts as He's Jailed in Deaths of Wife, Daughters, Source Says
 
My first thought was why didn’t his father tell him to shut his mouth? To get back in that room and not say one more word until he had a lawyer present? But that didn’t happen, I thought maybe CW’s father might be an bonafide honorable man who advised his son to do the right thing, to tell the truth, and pay the consequences whatever they may be. Soon afterwards, SWs brother asked everyone to please pray for both families, he said that they’d all lost love ones, they were all suffering. Since then, I’ve heard very little, except that CWs family did not attend the funeral, and last week it was said on AB and in People Magazine about C.W., “ “He sleeps all day and isn’t really talking to anyone, including his family.” What does this mean? Has his father disowned him? Don’t know. 'Depression Is Setting in' for Chris Watts as He's Jailed in Deaths of Wife, Daughters, Source Says
I hope that it is because he feels utterly ashamed of himself, not only for the murders but for all the lies, especially the one blaming SW.
 
I was thinking about it. I suspect they are placebo, plus, he was taking other things (e.g. Viagra - I read somewhere he had it? Does anyone remember where they posted it?) so the deleterious effect of the patches, separately, would be difficult to prove.

Furthermore, he has then to admit that on the next day when he was lying on TV, bizarrely burying his family and discussing what pizza to order in the evening, he was under the effect of the patches. I hope the next day when he was arrested they were smart enough to draw the blood in jail, or even see if he had the patch on him.

In short, I doubt they could make a case out of it. I checked the ingredients, while I am not aware of the amount of each, I assume they can’t put most people on a murderous rampage path. Unproven effects, maybe. Useless, likely.
Remember the Twinkie Defense? The Harvey Milk San Francisco City Hall murders? It worked.
 
Discussing the possibility that CW is innocent is important. I would agree we should always look at possibilities like that.

But pointing to 'evidence' like SW giving her kids a timeout, and then stretching that to say it proves she is into taunting them and shaming them and publicly humiliating them, is just ridiculous.

And pointing to a Christmas video, where she 'forces' her child to sit on Santa/Daddy's lap, which MILLIONS of parents do every year, and then using that as more 'evidence' that she is cold and hateful towards her children is just more nonsense.


Show me something REAL that tells me she was likely to murder her children. Show me something that says she would crumble and freak if she thought he was going to leave her. But don't point to her ignoring a tantrum, as many child development doctors advise parents to do, and try to point to that as meaning she is a cruel, callous parent.

I don't agree with everything that's being discussed regarding the videos either. Some of it seems odd to me, but not extremely odd, and IMO it's not enough to convict or say someone is guilty of murder. I haven't participated in those conversations. I haven't discussed the videos in that capacity and I don't plan on it. I'm not ready to give my opinion on where I stand because I don't know enough yet. jmo
 
As a person who hasn’t watched these videos and followed the blow by blow moments of their lives, it makes me wonder why would someone ever do that. Maybe it’s because I am in my 50’s, and grew up in a time before social media and when people were humble and private.

It's a brave new world. People live every bit of it online. Intimate stuff.

Not everyone does. I have younger relatives who are more private, some who are very private and some who post every last thought and act.

My siblings and I who are older are much more private than most of our younger relations.

Shanann was a solid millennial. They are the first generation to come of age in the era of dominating social media and smart phones. Their lives are consumed (comparatively speaking) with social media both in terms of how they socialize, get news and information, express themselves and most importantly, do business.

Shanann relied on social media to tell a narrative about a busy, harried wife and mom with the same struggles as everyone else - spouses who sometimes annoy, toddlers who are always imperfect, busy, jam-packed schedules, health concerns, a desire to look great and be fit- and how Thrive made all of that easier and more manageable for her.

She used social media to tell a story and sell a product. Part of that story was supposed to enable others to relate to her problems or issues but then see how her product made life better.

So she tried to be super positive but also, IMO, show the family imperfections and issues everyone has.

How does a mother with health issues and tantrumming toddlers and too much to do get through it with a laugh and a smile?

I mean I don't know if people realize just how much she posted. Look at FB alone (she also used twitter and Instagram) and see how many posts in that one month alone.

It's staggering. And it was for business.

She had to present a narrative in order to conduct that business. She probably did it the best way she knew how - with some humor, some self-deprecation, some snarkiness, some realism and as much positivity and gratitude for her family, friends and her business/product as she could muster. She wasn't a professional at PR. But she tried.

And now she's getting ripped apart for that by people who ignore her vast thousands of social media posts and pick the few that rub some the wrong way.

He backlash has stunned me.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.highsnobiety.com/2017/09/27/social-media-addiction/?format=amp

Millennials and privacy: How much do they really care?
 
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