Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #30

[Amandaaa]

So autopsy results will be sealed but the defense should receive them no later than tomorrow and if they object to the motion they have to file a response? If I understood correctly. Let me know verified attorneys

Prosecution has the heavy burden of showing that the reports should be sealed - can’t just allege it’s in the public interest without showing some specific, unusual circumstances that the legislature could not have anticipated when the law was drafted.

There’s not enough information in the original motion, court wants to review the reports in camera and hear both sides’ arguments before deciding.

On another note - I am quite surprised there haven’t been any public requests (media, etc) to view the reports...

 

[human]

For anyone who wants a very long read on female family annihilators: “the female family annihilator...”. (99 pg thesis) citing major differences that separate females who commit these acts from males.

“Messing, Heeren (2004) and Boyd (2011) have noted that women who commit mass murder in the domestic context rarely commit their crimes spontaneously. Rather their actions are often calculated and well planned. Furthermore, it is noted that men and women who commit mass murder do so for different reasons (Boyd, 2011; Messing & Heeren, 2004). Mass murders by males often stem from frustration or anger. Females typically kill out of compassion and care for their families (Boyd, 2011).”

https://ir.library.dc-uoit.ca/bitstream/10155/263/1/Fleming_Katie.pdf
Of course, just like the Rorschach test, some may read this with their own preconceived opinion .

Interesting, Hope someone does more on it,

 

[katydid23]

We have a VI who hasn't defended SW's behavior and actions prior to the murders, but nobody has come forward with any negative thoughts towards CW's character prior to this. This alone makes me question everyone and everything. People don't typically just snap and kill their whole family without any warning signs. There has to be way more to this than CW wanting out to have a fresh start with his AP party. jmo

According to the research on family annihilators, THEY DO typically just snap, without any warning signals.

That report has been linked here several times upthread.

 

[katydid23]

It may have been Trinket78 or another poster who said that CW deleted his SM because he was unhappy that SW kept posting gushy posts about him even though
they had talked about separating.

In her most recent post about it. IIRC, she said she 'thought' that was why he closed his FB account.

 

[dgfred]

How would her gushing about him on her account cause him to close his account. I think it is something else.

 

[Jennifer17]

How would her gushing about him on her account cause him to close his account. I think it is something else.

Yes, he could have unfriended her instead of killing his whole family if he did not want the AP to see her gushy posts.

 

[human]

There is no way he is getting out of the fact he killed SW.

He did not say he killed her to stop her from killing the children, He killed her in rage. He is toast no matter what.

No jury will let him off on that.

 

[Medstudies]

Just a random thought: My sister lost her husband (ALS) a year ago, she still refers to him in the present tense. (He is, after all, still “with her”)

CW on the other hand, was speaking of his wife and children in the past tense during the interviews. (Where he laughed and smiled, and lied.

MOO - There was not a single moment where he expressed any clear concern about them. The entirety of his comments were: All. About. Him.

MOO - He was so flippant. Just a casual discard and total detachment)

 

[WildWest]

Is it possible a mid life crisis led to the murders? I use the term mid life crisis loosely. Unfortunately I've seen it happen and result in divorces, one spouse is vilinized to the point of nonsense.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

We have a VI who hasn't defended SW's behavior and actions prior to the murders, but nobody has come forward with any negative thoughts towards CW's character prior to this. This alone makes me question everyone and everything. People don't typically just snap and kill their whole family without any warning signs. There has to be way more to this than CW wanting out to have a fresh start with his AP party. jmo

According to the research on family annihilators, THEY DO typically just snap, without any warning signals.

That report has been linked here several times upthread.

Correct, but as I've stated, my perception of CW doesn't fit with a family annihilator.
jmo

 

[Jennifer17]

Correct, but as I've stated, my perception of CW doesn't fit with a family annihilator.
jmo

What would you have to see that fits with CW being a family annihilator?
How is he different?

 

[Area52]

The thing that is IMO to be fundamental about our judicial system is you are innocent until proven guilty. There can be theories on everything until we get more physical evidence. This case is unique bc we have a victim which is also a Suspect. As of now we have heard nothing about physical evidence that implicated either CW or SW to killing the girls. A juror is supposed to be impartial to what defense may offer. I am interested in all those theories bc this crime does not add up. He had moved on absolutely nothing to gain by killing her and kids. He can be portrayed as verbally abused and she has admitted the need for mood support on her Sm. She had everything to lose imo . The motive puts her subject to be the killer imo

I disagree with your interpretation of the arrest warrant. There is only one suspect in this case, and he is in jail. At no time have the police of the DA hinted that SW killed her children because there evidently is no evidence to prove it. They have stated that CW killed SW and their children.Just because CW says that SW killed the children doesn't make her a suspect. If he said aliens did it, would that also make them suspects? I don't get how his words can make her a suspect! Moo

 

[Mellowmelly]

Sorry if I’m way behind, I haven’t caught up completely with this thread. I have watched the Santa video and seen the time out picture of Cece and Bella and I just wanted to say from the video I think Shannan was a fantastic mommy. She had so much patience and went to so much effort for her girls, I don’t think she was mean in any way. All of my children were afraid of Santa as toddlers and they all cried when they first seen him, I didn’t immeadiatly scoop them up away from him. Also when my children were little I was advised to use a naughty step or time out when they were throwing tantrums, unfortunately I didn’t have the patience to follow it through so my house has always been like a Mad House ! . IMO using time out rather than screaming and shouting at your kids is good parenting.

 

[BelleIsle]

Yeah it's going to be interesting to see how they show a guy became so enraged by his wife's murder of their kids that he killed her but second later was suddenly protective of her reputation.

And then (figuratively) threw her under the bus as soon as he knew he was caught. Some loyalty that is! Imagine that his (she did it) story were true (or his 2nd choice false narrative--doesn't matter in this scenario), and knowing this he had stuck to his "they just disappeared" false narrative...and in 5, 10 years they find any/all of the remains, they connect him to them...does he then come out with the "she did it" false narrative? Think about how ridiculous that sounds, it's just as ridiculous of a story right now.

 

[pocketaccent]

Good thinking of possible strategy. I just don't think they have much they can come up with that will hold water. I do not personally find the answers credible, nor do I believe that reasonable jurors will, either, based on the evidence we know right now. But we shall see! Particularly if they say it was to protect the wife's reputation (so concerned for her he denied her and her family a proper burial, etc) and that he was forced to kill her (um, no...who made him judge and jury?). Rage + trauma + carefully executed (if flawed) plan to cover it all up = doesn't add up. The only thing that does add up, IMO, is he did it. So far the State agrees. But it will be interesting to see the defense.

I think the defense may go with :

CW killed SW because she killed the children. CW got rid of all bodies because he didn't want to go to prison for killing SW.

or
SW, out of shame, begged CW to kill her. Asked him to dump children's bodies in oil, so they would never be found. Enraged CW killed her and followed her order. ( lol, sorry)

 

[Jennifer17]

I disagree with your interpretation of the arrest warrant. There is only one suspect in this case, and he is in jail. At no time have the police of the DA hinted that SW killed her children because there evidently is no evidence to prove it. They have stated that CW killed SW and their children.Just because CW says that SW killed the children doesn't make her a suspect. If he said aliens did it, would that also make them suspects? I don't get how his words can make her a suspect! Moo

Yes, the man who (when he was cornered) confessed to killing her and her unborn child, has accused the woman he killed of killing.
That does not make her a suspect. I just means one more lie from him among many other lies.

 

[gitana1]

Don't have to prove it... just create a little doubt.

Well not a little doubt. It has to be "reasonable" doubt. But I'm surprised that per CO law, once the defense claims insanity, the prosecution has to prove he was sane. That's unusual. In most states the burden shifts to the defense.

But I think that's not hard.

First the state has to prove first degree murder. They have to satisfy the elements. That he:

1. Killed his spouse.
2. After deliberation.
3. With the intent to kill her.

If they prove that, then apparently they have to show he was sane if the defense has asserted the diminished capacity defense (which is what temporary insanity falls under):

1. That he did understand the nature of his act.
2. That he could distinguish between right and wrong.
3. That he knew what he was doing was wrong, and wasn't helpless to stop himself from acting.

If CW asserts the diminished capacity defense then he will be subject to psych evaluations.

But think about this: If the crazy Aurora Colorado murderer with his history of psychiatric treatment and severe mental illness including diagnosed schizophrenia couldn't succeed with such a defense, how likely is CW to?

The jury has to find he was legally insane at the time of the murders in order for that defense to work.

And looking at the jury instructions in the Colorado shooting, it's pretty narrow. It doesn't include heat of passion sort of "snapped" scenarios.

Jury Instructions in the Trial of James E. Holmes

 

[MyBelle]

How would her gushing about him on her account cause him to close his account. I think it is something else.

I think he closed it because SW had access to it and he had made up his mind about separating.

 

[dgfred]

very informative... thanks G

 

[dgfred]

I think he closed it because SW had access to it and he had made up his mind about separating.

Stop her access... dang.