AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #6

[Suglo]

There has to have been an altercation of some kind between somebody. This has anger all over it.

I’m not sure why but this case reminds me of the William “Bo” Kirk murder in Idaho two years ago where two men kidnapped him from his driveway and murdered him following a road rage incident.

Idaho man pleads guilty to 2016 road rage killing

 

[indigopearl]

Sorry if this has already been brought up but does anyone have any logical explanation for WHY mom or Jayme wouldn’t have called 911 as soon as the door was kicked in? That would have been loud and it would have only taken seconds to call 911 so they should have been able to call before the perp got to where they were... I just can’t think of any explanation for this.

 

[klind55]

ARE OTHERs having tons of trouble posting...sorry for caps, this took me over five minutes

Not posting but I should be rich by how many times I have won $1000. The pop ups on this site are crazy!

 

[MsBetsy]

Or dad crawled there trying to get away or "go after" Jayme as she was being dragged out and that is where he died.

I thought about that too at first, but now it seems that he had a confrontation at the door, and in trying to prevent the attacker from getting in, was shot and killed. Jmo

 

[MommaV]

Or dad crawled there trying to get away or "go after" Jayme as she was being dragged out and that is where he died.

Maybe dad kicked door in after hearing the first gunshot and didn't have time to unlock the door???

 

[Cardinal47]

Just trying to catch up. The parents were killed and Jayme taken. That means Jayme was the target or they would have killed her too. Two murders..three murders..no difference if they came to the house looking for something and not someone.
The question I keep asking is who would be so brazen to kick in the door (lots of rage), kill two people (heaven help us all) then take Jamey who had to be kicking and screaming. And I might add get her out of the house and long gone in four minutes.
One question I do have is how far away are their neighbors? Would they have been far enough away to hear only shots but not voices of arguing???
The rage and the leaving in such haste baffle me.

 

[JaneEyre]

Sorry if this has already been brought up but does anyone have any logical explanation for WHY mom or Jayme wouldn’t have called 911 as soon as the door was kicked in? That would have been loud and it would have only taken seconds to call 911 so they should have been able to call before the perp got to where they were... I just can’t think of any explanation for this.

Phones on charger in other room? A need to hide first? All kinds of reasons.

 

[Confusion]

Bringing forward this (already posted in the last thread) article:

BBM

Is it odd to ask those who have had "misunderstandings" with the Closs family to call the tipline? Does LE think this was the result of a misunderstanding with a person(s) the family knew? If so, how likely is it that the guilty party will come forward and share that information to cast suspicion on themselves? Very unlikely I would think.

Unless....is this possibly the result of a larger misunderstanding between several parties, but this poor family was targeted either due to opportunity, location, level of involvement or something else? I wonder what the possibilities, on a larger scale instead of just Closs family vs. Perp(s) could be?

*Edited to add link*
'A lot of yelling' in 911 call when Jayme Closs was abducted, police say

I wonder if someone has mentioned one or more people who had problems with them recently, and they're waiting to see who doesn't admit to anything. If I had a misunderstanding with a couple who was later murdered and LE asked to talk to anyone who had, I'd make sure I talked to them about it as soon as possible to get my side of things heard - unless, of course, I had murdered them. MOO

 

[CuriousMaine]

Yeah. My issue with that is the incredible risk of hanging around for something like 20 minutes.

In a blitz style attack like this appears to be, the perpetrator(s) wants to be in and out as quickly as possible. The louder the entry, the more likely your discovery, and the faster you need to get out of there.

That house was tiny, and it doesn’t make it likely or necessary to spend that type of time there.

That’s why I’m so skeptical of the timing of those gunshots.

Agree, it's odd; very aggressive. In a country setting especially. About 40% of the homes in the US have firearms. Why would the perp(s) have the expectation of not being met with deadly force? Anyone kicking in a door with two cars in the driveway, especially after midnight risks being met with an armed homeowner willing to defend their family and property.

BTW, subjective-I know, but the home doesn't look "tiny" to me from the google maps. Looks like a raised ranched style, perhaps with a finished basement. JMO.

 

[oviedo]

Yes, usually child predators purposely avoid any confrontation with an adult or parent. To murder both parents in order to take the child is very unusual. To act in such an agressive way, kicking the door in and shooting both parents, seems more like rage or drug fueled behavior. Jmo

Have a look at some of the other cases these long time websleuthers have followed- this is not the first time family menbers are killed to get the one these predators want - I’m still praying for Jayme that it’s someone trying to “protect” her

 

[JGussey]

is the 911 call public? I can't find it

 

[MassGuy]

i agree it make no sense. Does the fact that the moms phone was used for the call mean maybe the perp and jayme where gone before the call? idk nothing is making sense right now.

Not necessarily. The call and her abduction may have coincided.

You’re right, it seems that with every new detail, we are only left with more questions.

 

[JaneEyre]

Just trying to catch up. The parents were killed and Jayme taken. That means Jayme was the target or they would have killed her too. Two murders..three murders..no difference if they came to the house looking for something and not someone.
The question I keep asking is who would be so brazen to kick in the door (lots of rage), kill two people (heaven help us all) then take Jamey who had to be kicking and screaming. And I might add get her out of the house and long gone in four minutes.
One question I do have is how far away are their neighbors? Would they have been far enough away to hear only shots but not voices of arguing???
The rage and the leaving in such haste baffle me.

The neighbors are farther away than mine. No way I could hear an argument going on inside my neighbor's house. Search last thread for google map and you'll see.

 

[Pennysmom1]

Yeah. My issue with that is the incredible risk of hanging around for something like 20 minutes.

In a blitz style attack like this appears to be, the perpetrator(s) wants to be in and out as quickly as possible. The louder the entry, the more likely your discovery, and the faster you need to get out of there.

That house was tiny, and it doesn’t make it likely or necessary to spend that type of time there.

That’s why I’m so skeptical of the timing of those gunshots.

I just had a thought about the time in the house after the door being kicked in, father shot, and hanging around 20 minutes. Maybe they weren't in such a hurry to until the mother or Jayme made the 911 call and then they had to get out in a hurry. The perp(s) could have been there to rob the house, look for guns, money, kidnap Jayme, harm the mother; we dont' know at this point. The perp(s) probably didn't know the neighbors heard gunshots no matter what the exact time was. He(they) made have made Jayme pack a suitcase/bags of clothing to take along and that took some time. If the goal was to kidnap Jayme, maybe they killed her parents and got her as planned. If the goal was something else, maybe the parents got killed, but for whatever reason, the perp(s) couldn't bring themself(ves) to kill a child and that is why she was taken? Just my thoughts.

 

[Inthedetails]

Sorry if this has already been brought up but does anyone have any logical explanation for WHY mom or Jayme wouldn’t have called 911 as soon as the door was kicked in? That would have been loud and it would have only taken seconds to call 911 so they should have been able to call before the perp got to where they were... I just can’t think of any explanation for this.

Maybe they didn't have a phone handy?

jmo

 

[Boodles]

Sorry if this has already been brought up but does anyone have any logical explanation for WHY mom or Jayme wouldn’t have called 911 as soon as the door was kicked in? That would have been loud and it would have only taken seconds to call 911 so they should have been able to call before the perp got to where they were... I just can’t think of any explanation for this.

Frozen by panic? Accosted immediately by intruder?

 

[Le Singe]

In the last thread, it was speculated that the perpetrator attacked Denise and Jayme, and then the father came home during the incident.

What have I missed? The 911 dispatch log says the male down had opened the door. I was out most of the day. Did I miss something? He couldn’t have walked in on things if he’s the one who had answered the door. Please enlighten me. TIA.

“115 - 10/15/2018 01:05:19] 317 REQUESTED ERT BE PAGED OUT. ADVISED THE DOOR HAS BEEN KICKED IN. ADVISED THAT THE MALE WHO IS DOWN HAD ANSWERED THE DOOR. UNKNOWN IF ANYONE IS MISSING.
SENT ERT PAGE.”

911 dispatch log: Call made from Denise's cell phone, door kicked in

the bolded part was based on rampant speculation that went on here most of yesterday into today that was not based in any facts. As you point out the facts now seem to suggest it is not what happened.

 

[Atoz]

Or a "rescue" in the Perp's mind

I agree. I can't recall whether I posted it here or elsewhere, but I did mention the possibility that Jayme could have been troubled before this happened and the person who did this thought they were making things better for her.

 

[MissMalowe]

Meaningless Speculation/thinking:
Did the perp exit the same way they entered? I wonder the positioning of the father in the doorway? Did perp, with Jayme in tow, exit the front door in a hurry, navigating around the father's body while still keeping control of Jayme?

 

[SeekingJana]

When I think of a door getting kicked in, two images come to mind immediately:

Drug raid
Rescuing a hostage
Amateur opinion and speculation only

RSBM.
Chiming in here as a person who's worked in the psychology field, and going back to the first part of your post, a violent sudden, non-retreatable action when the outcome is not known ( the intruding person who kicked the door in could get shot, stabbed, there could be an off duty LE officer sitting there, a mean attack dog rescued from the shelter 2 days before, and so forth)- the impulsive actions of kicking a door and shooting two adults in their own home speaks to unmitigated and uncontrolled rage to me.

It is an act of stunning violence to invade someone's home by force with intent to kill.
I believe the first reports said the EMS personnel and other first responders to the scene would need crisis counseling.
If that was an accurate statement, it is usually an indication that are violent aspects seldom seen at a crime scene.

It remains my belief that because Jayme is not listed as " possibly injured" in the Missing reports, but her parents were murdered, then she was the target, or she'd have been gravely injured and left for dead or killed as well.

The murders in CT of Dr. William Petit's first family- his very young teen daughter who wasn't dating yet, his older teen daughter and his wife after he was immobilized by recently paroled men who were on drugs and also were totally amoral individuals who fed off each other's bravado may give some insight into what personality type committed the murders and abducted Jayme.

I hope FBI profilers will look at the psychodynamics of cases where parents were not the targets but their child or children were. These cases are very rare because parents DO die trying to protect their children, and because children are both simple, in that they do not possess money or good survival instincts when on the run, and because a child hostage does become a liability much more visibly and with greater public awareness and reaction when there's a national FBI search in place.

I noticed in the Wausau Herald that the family dog was also not harmed but left in the residence.
While I tend to think this is a part of the criminology, it's also reassuring just a bit to me that they didn't kill the dog sadistically in front of the little girl. I tend to think there was more than one intruder, and possibly an accomplice held Jayme out of sight of her parents' shootings and hopefully, she did not see their bodies at all.
If she is to be found alive, she has to have internal strength and hope in the face of likely great danger.

Stay strong, Jayme. So many people are praying for you and hoping for you, I hope you can feel the love in the midst of all this.