AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #21

[daisy6441]

I saw they were doing another sweep with the helicopter because they thought with the leaves off the trees they might see something. It would have to be a big something or else it is going to be covered in leaves.

 

[Confusion]

I'm only basing this on my experiences, so it's probably totally wrong. When I was a young teen (or a child or adult for that matter) and my mother was at my side almost every minute that she wasn't working, my father spent a lot of time with me too (possibly when mom was working and dad wasn't), and they had my aunt keeping an eye on me when neither was available, I'd be going nuts. I think it's great that she and her mother had such a close relationship, but I wonder how much time she had to be with friends without a parent watching and listening.

I keep seeing her telling someone that she can't take it anymore and she just wants to get away from them, but meaning for a day or two. If the person has an attraction to her, and maybe isn't the brightest bulb on the tree, he may have told her that he would get her away. She could have thought he meant for a day with some friends or something along those lines, and he may have meant permanently. There could have been a plan for him to pick her up that night after her parents were sleeping, but her father woke up before things got very far. He slammed the door on the guy who shot him through the door and then kicked it in. The noise woke up DC and she came out to see what was going on, turned back to run and get her phone, and was shot before the 911 operator answered. The commotion heard in the background could have been him trying to get her out of there before LE came, and her freaking out because she hadn't wanted anything to happen to her parents.

She may have also been looking for Molly, but Molly might have hidden because the gun shots scared her. It's possible that she is still alive but is afraid to be found because he's told her that he'd tell LE that she asked him to do it if she ever tried to leave or told anyone he did it. I know this is far-fetched, but I'm still looking for a reasonable way that she could be innocent but still alive. MOO

 

[daisy6441]

The changing schools is standing out to me. That is tough for a teenager that age. Starting over? Why? And no, I don’t buy caretaker explanation

Some of the girls she dances with could go to that school.

 

[Jethro4WS]

No. The boy in question was a creepy young man who was stealing her underwear, etc. I believe he was arrested by police at the scene.

Not a boy. He is 32 years old.

 

[l84tea2]

I saw they were doing another sweep with the helicopter because they thought with the leaves off the trees they might see something. It would have to be a big something or else it is going to be covered in leaves.

I also read they were searching Turtle lake? It must be near her home

 

[Confusion]

I also read they were searching Turtle lake? It must be near her home

Turtle Lake (the town) is about 14 miles from her home. If they're actually searching lakes, Upper Turtle Lake is probably about 10 miles west (on the north side of hwy 8) and Lower Turtle Lake is close to the same distance west, but farther south.

 

[Confusion]

I'm only basing this on my experiences, so it's probably totally wrong. When I was a young teen (or a child or adult for that matter) and my mother was at my side almost every minute that she wasn't working, my father spent a lot of time with me too (possibly when mom was working and dad wasn't), and they had my aunt keeping an eye on me when neither was available, I'd be going nuts. I think it's great that she and her mother had such a close relationship, but I wonder how much time she had to be with friends without a parent watching and listening.

I meant to say if, not and.

 

[ravenette]

I'm only basing this on my experiences, so it's probably totally wrong. When I was a young teen (or a child or adult for that matter) and my mother was at my side almost every minute that she wasn't working, my father spent a lot of time with me too (possibly when mom was working and dad wasn't), and they had my aunt keeping an eye on me when neither was available, I'd be going nuts. I think it's great that she and her mother had such a close relationship, but I wonder how much time she had to be with friends without a parent watching and listening.

I keep seeing her telling someone that she can't take it anymore and she just wants to get away from them, but meaning for a day or two. If the person has an attraction to her, and maybe isn't the brightest bulb on the tree, he may have told her that he would get her away. She could have thought he meant for a day with some friends or something along those lines, and he may have meant permanently. There could have been a plan for him to pick her up that night after her parents were sleeping, but her father woke up before things got very far. He slammed the door on the guy who shot him through the door and then kicked it in. The noise woke up DC and she came out to see what was going on, turned back to run and get her phone, and was shot before the 911 operator answered. The commotion heard in the background could have been him trying to get her out of there before LE came, and her freaking out because she hadn't wanted anything to happen to her parents.

She may have also been looking for Molly, but Molly might have hidden because the gun shots scared her. It's possible that she is still alive but is afraid to be found because he's told her that he'd tell LE that she asked him to do it if she ever tried to leave or told anyone he did it. I know this is far-fetched, but I'm still looking for a reasonable way that she could be innocent but still alive. MOO

Yes, something like that is one of my theories. Thing is, the longer Jayme is missing the more we tend to speculate. I have been looking on FB and it seems nearly everyday a new theory appears, and some of them although not grounded in fact, do seem plausible.

 

[Laura456]

Sneaking out to see your boyfriend has been the subject of songs, poems, and stories in the United States since the 1700s, long before Dierks Bentley sang about it. There are Appalachian folk ballads that came over from the British Isles that talk about this. It's a story probably as old as time. The Romeo and Juliet tale is one of the most popular topics of lyrics and stories. Mostly it's just something fun and innocent. This crime doesn't feel like that at all. If someone who was interested in Jayme or, for the sake of argument, WAS secretly dating her, did this then there were most likely nefarious issues from the very beginning on their part. One doesn't go straight from "I have a crush on this girl" or "She's going to sneak out tonight to make out with me in my car" to slaughtering her entire family and abducting her.

To be fair, Romeo killed Juliet's cousin Tybalt...

 

[Seattle1]

The one thing that I was thinking is that she (and I so hope this is true) is hiding/being held somewhere and the boy who broke into her house and stole her clothing was trying to get her a change of clothes or something. I did mention this on another forum but nobody thought that held water. I'm very lost on this page and there may be a discussion I've not seen, but does anybody consider that a possibility?

The intruder was not a boy, but a man in his 30's. Police Chief assured the public in his last interview that this man was cleared. He has a history of stealing women's clothing -- more specifically undergarments. He did not steal change of clothing for Jayme.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Usually I have a strong opinion about the cases on WS. this is the very first time I really don’t. I’m not confused. I simply lack a path to a clear concise belief as to what really happened.

It’s a rural area rife with meth heroin and crime. Once you lift the blanket of a perfect little community, people see the ugly underbelly of the area.

Gambling

Alcohol abuse

Meth addiction

Opiod sales

Huffing

Integration issues and distrust

Family secrets

Ignorance of dealing with pervsion issues (the likelihood the man who was apprehended stealing Jamie’s intimate clothing). Someone, family or friend should have reported him long ago. Many killers have the same predilections and it often is discovered after serial killers have been caught. I do hope he gets the help he needs.

Yet Jayme supposedly is a young perhaps immature 13 yo with no boyfriends and protective parents.

And entry into their home in supposedly a short period of time leaving the parents dead and Jayme missing.

I’m still uncertain exactly what to make if it.

And I’m very uncertain she’s missing at her own volition.

And I understand the very good reasons LE is cautious about releasing information. And I also believe if we had a 5 second peek into “command central” we would be assured LE is exhausting every minuscule lead they have had submitted.

I do believe in the Sheriff and his capabilities. I believe the team searching for missing children in the USA is unequivocally the best in the world. And it’s very probable, after it’s conclusion, we will realize it’s the zebra in a herd of horses case. Unusual and beyond the norm.

 

[Mom24]

Jayme's blood would be in the yard if that happened, along with other evidence like shell casings, and LE would have seen it. LE says that she was kidnapped alive for a reason. She may be deceased now but she was not shot in the yard. IMHO.

I don't think she was shot in the yard, I believe she ran into the woods and was shot there. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, but it would explain the 20 mins between the shot being heard by the neighbors and 911 call. If the intruder shot Denise and then spent time running after Jayme and shot her in the woods(the shot the neighbors heard), then returned to the home to find Denise had attempted to call 911 but was too injured to speak, disconnect the call and shoot her again and leave.
Most people don't sleep with their phones by their beds. I know mine is typically either dead in the bottom of my purse or on a charger in another room. If someone bangs on the door, your husband gets up out of bed to see what's going on, you hear a commotion and you run out and get shot. You yell to awaken your daughter and tell her to run, and then you attempt to find your phone. If you're shot and injured, it may take time to get it and if you're losing consciousness you may not be able to say much, especially if the intruder returns to the home and you're fumbling with the phone with him. It's all conjecture, but I haven't yet come up with a scenario where Jayme is the target for an abduction. There are easier ways to abduct a child without a double homicide. Even breaking into the home during the night and grabbing her through a window makes more sense than breaking down the front door and killing two able bodied adults.

 

[CluelessWonder]

I agree with those who believe this case is connected to the cases in Indiana and Iowa. Three cities with their largest employers being meat processing plants. In the case of Evansdale, the meat processing facility is actually in nearby Waterloo. Check hotel/motel records. This may be a person who travels and frequents these meat plants. Could it be an inspector? A machinery worker? A truck driver? A refrigeration industry person?

 

[Mom24]

Usually I have a strong opinion about the cases on WS. this is the very first time I really don’t. I’m not confused. I simply lack a path to a clear concise belief as to what really happened.

It’s a rural area rife with meth heroin and crime. Once you lift the blanket of a perfect little community, people see the ugly underbelly of the area.

Gambling

Alcohol abuse

Meth addiction

Opiod sales

Huffing

Integration issues and distrust

Family secrets

Ignorance of dealing with pervsion issues (the likelihood the man who was apprehended stealing Jamie’s intimate clothing). Someone, family or friend should have reported him long ago. Many killers have the same predilections and it often is discovered after serial killers have been caught. I do hope he gets the help he needs.

Yet Jayme supposedly is a young perhaps immature 13 yo with no boyfriends and protective parents.

And entry into their home in supposedly a short period of time leaving the parents dead and Jayme missing.

I’m still uncertain exactly what to make if it.

And I’m very uncertain she’s missing at her own volition.

And I understand the very good reasons LE is cautious about releasing information. And I also believe if we had a 5 second peek into “command central” we would be assured LE is exhausting every minuscule lead they have had submitted.

I do believe in the Sheriff and his capabilities. I believe the team searching for missing children in the USA is unequivocally the best in the world. And it’s very probable, after it’s conclusion, we will realize it’s the zebra in a herd of horses case. Unusual and beyond the norm.

I know what you mean. I've literally scoured everything I could find to get some kind of picture of the town, the neighbors and the Closs family and it's all really unremarkable. There is an opiod issue, but it's not nearly to the level that it is in some areas. It's a typical middle class mill area, a close family with deep roots to the community, typical ups and downs that all people have, the community is fairly stable with a few oddballs and the occasional bar brawl but a very active police force to deal with issues. The family were regular church-goers and Denise was very involved in community services as well as raising monies to fight cancer. Her family was everything, including her siblings and extended family. Jim seems like everyone's Dad, busy working, hanging out with the boys. And Jayme was a busy teen with cross country and dancing. It's just a normal family who went to bed that Sunday night after Mom and Jayme attended a family birthday party.

 

[kc1023]

I agree with those who believe this case is connected to the cases in Indiana and Iowa. Three cities with their largest employers being meat processing plants. In the case of Evansdale, the meat processing facility is actually in nearby Waterloo. Check hotel/motel records. This may be a person who travels and frequents these meat plants. Could it be an inspector? A machinery worker? A truck driver? A refrigeration industry person?

I see the possibilities too and started a list back on Thread #5 (Oct 19th) but it was basically shot down immediately. I"ll post it again just in case it helps and because there hasn't been any resolution thus far to discount it:

- Abby was 13, Jayme is 13 - these girls resemble each other in looks and build and innocent aura were both known to be exceptionally close to their mother
- Delphi has a hog plant nearby, Barron has a turkey processor
- Both seem to have nearby highways but are small, rural towns in the MidWest
- Both locations have a nearby cemetery
- Both locations have a nearby railroad track
- Both locations have nearby truck stops
- Both crimes took place in a relatively short/fast period of time
- Others (may have) been killed in an effort to acquire the target victim (Libby / Jayme's parents)
- Billboards utilized quickly in both cases, lots of media attention early on
- Similar statements in PCs ("just need that one tip" etc)
-*Both Delphi and Barron have significant Meth problems
- AND bonus, if you add in Evansdale, IA it makes a triangle between the 3 locations

Also I think @FromGermany added that Delphi and Barron both have significant meth problems and I think something else but I've inserted the Meth problem detail in my list above.

Maybe folks will have a more open mind now since there have been no developments sadly.

 

[Megnut]

Of course it's possible the neighbors got the shots right and the time wrong, but is this worth considering?: what if those two shots were test shots? To see if anybody moves? Do lights go on, do neighbors investigate, do police come? Then laying in wait until lights go off, presumption that everyone was back in their respective beds.... then a knock at the door, the ruse to get Dad at the door.... where do we suppose the getaway vehicle was during the invasion? Surely not in the driveway....

 

[Megnut]

Something else to consider, while the chair in evidence is logically a dining room chair, that doesn't mean that is where it was kept. I have a dining room chair in my bedroom. And not for sitting. Like most treadmills, it's just a convenient place to pile stuff. Mine, sad to say is covered with scarves, a purse and clothes --

 

[CluelessWonder]

I think the Delphi person looks like a truck driver. One thing of note is that the Delphi killer didn't bother to take anyone with him. That's different from the Evansdale and Barron cases. But maybe that was because of the pictures and audio and maybe those girls chose to flee. If you draw straight lines to the middle of that triangle, where does that put you? Northern Illinois? Could that be the home area of the killer?

 

[DancingMuse]

I agree with those who believe this case is connected to the cases in Indiana and Iowa. Three cities with their largest employers being meat processing plants. In the case of Evansdale, the meat processing facility is actually in nearby Waterloo. Check hotel/motel records. This may be a person who travels and frequents these meat plants. Could it be an inspector? A machinery worker? A truck driver? A refrigeration industry person?

I so agree with you Clueless Wonder. Those are very excellent points you make.

And I am hoping with the advances in DNA, some small fiber can link any of one of these crimes to one or more of the others.

Before Mr. Panty-Thief was completely cleared, I had read he already had arrests in IOWA. But, when you check his description to the info on the Delphi BridgeGuy. you find that Mr. PT is 10 pounds too light, (but they did have very similar hair color, and age range.) And, ... How did Mr. PT get back and forth to Iowa? Not on foot and bicycle I'm sure. He is borrowing someone's cars or trucks, or has his own in storage. So where are those vehicles?

If these 3 crimes ARE connected in some way, ..... I'm just hoping that in Barron, someone watches that video of BridgeGuy, listens to the voice, looks at the picture/description, and recognizes him, and calls it in as a tip. Maybe it was someone only in Barron for a week, with a function like the jobs you mentioned. With limited business at the turkey plant, he could have left for a few days, planned the Closs crime, and then have come back to Barron to commit it.

Are we supposed to be getting a huge message from the killer? ..... "Two, Two and Two", or, "I can kill 2 people every time I do this, and get away with it".

 

[Al Ka]

The one thing that I was thinking is that she (and I so hope this is true) is hiding/being held somewhere and the boy who broke into her house and stole her clothing was trying to get her a change of clothes or something. I did mention this on another forum but nobody thought that held water. I'm very lost on this page and there may be a discussion I've not seen, but does anybody consider that a possibility?

Sherriff actually answered this exact question in his latest interview day ago and answered was No. His words were that burglar was not taking jeans, sweater, backpack etc but only specific clothing (underwear) for his own purposes. Therefore that theory that he was bringing clothes to her is out.