Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[katchoo]

Convicting a Murderer

There is a thread here on the forum about it. Not a lot of info, but they have been working on it for months already It will be interesting, I'm not sure how much they will be able to say or not say considering it's still in the courts, anything they do say, you can bet that Zellner will be watching and listening carefully.

I hope that Kratz isn't a big part of it, if his book is any indication, he has some 'facts' wrong, and honestly, that doesn't help the State or the guilty side.

In the trailer Kratz is there going "I didn't make a murderer, I convicted a murderer" lol. Although I think Steven is guilty I too hope Kratz isn't in it a lot. I can't stand the man.

 

[Sustained]

Just read this ...

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Recent-Examination-of-the-Dassey-Computer.pdf

KZ tells quite a story implicating BoD.

 

[proudfootz]

Had any of those images and searches been on Steven's computer you know KK would be shouting it from the rooftops.

Since it comes from BoD's computer it had to be hushed up, as he was needed as a witness.

 

[leslievernon]

talking about computers:
i heard that teresa had a website, anno 2005.. teresahalbach.org, or.com. anyway it doesn't exist anymore.

there sure was a picture of her on her website... and i am sure i heard that within all those pics on the dassey computer was also a picture of teresa.
i wish somebody could confirm that. right now it's just rumors.

 

[katchoo]

talking about computers:
i heard that teresa had a website, anno 2005.. teresahalbach.org, or.com. anyway it doesn't exist anymore.

there sure was a picture of her on her website... and i am sure i heard that within all those pics on the dassey computer was also a picture of teresa.
i wish somebody could confirm that. right now it's just rumors.

If that was true, KZ would be all over it.

 

[Karinna]

talking about computers:
i heard that teresa had a website, anno 2005.. teresahalbach.org, or.com. anyway it doesn't exist anymore.

there sure was a picture of her on her website... and i am sure i heard that within all those pics on the dassey computer was also a picture of teresa.
i wish somebody could confirm that. right now it's just rumors.

(quote)
In October 2017, Kathleen Zellner filed a motion in Wisconsin courts asking Judge Angela Sutkiewicz to reconsider her earlier decision denying a defense motion to give Avery a new trial. In that motion, Zellner raised the accusations about the CD. In a motion to reconsider, Zellner argued, “[T]he Dassey computer contains images of Ms. Halbach, violent *advertiser censored* and dead bodies of young females viewed by Bobby Dassey at relevant time periods before and after the murder of Ms. Halbach.”
You can read the motion in full here.
Bobby Dassey, a CD & Making a Murderer 2: What Was On it? | Heavy.com

 

[Sustained]

Had any of those images and searches been on Steven's computer you know KK would be shouting it from the rooftops.

Since it comes from BoD's computer it had to be hushed up, as he was needed as a witness.

(quote)
In October 2017, Kathleen Zellner filed a motion in Wisconsin courts asking Judge Angela Sutkiewicz to reconsider her earlier decision denying a defense motion to give Avery a new trial. In that motion, Zellner raised the accusations about the CD. In a motion to reconsider, Zellner argued, “[T]he Dassey computer contains images of Ms. Halbach, violent *advertiser censored* and dead bodies of young females viewed by Bobby Dassey at relevant time periods before and after the murder of Ms. Halbach.”
You can read the motion in full here.
Bobby Dassey, a CD & Making a Murderer 2: What Was On it? | Heavy.com

While I will agree that Bobby watched a lot of *advertiser censored*, I don't think it's crazy to think he might have looked up pictures of Teresa Halbach after the crime. If he was looking up bodies of dead females only after the TH murder, I probably would attribute that to curiosity as well. As for the violent *advertiser censored*, there is no proof that watching it would cause him to murder TH ... you need look no further than teenagers playing violent shooter games. The percentage that actually act out on acts from the video games is extremely small.

I do wonder about the child *advertiser censored* and BoD conducting MSN chats with underage girls. I don't know what the legal age of consent was in 1995 in WI, but BoD was only 20.

And BoD has never been charged with any crime as far as I tell.

And from Dan Abrams site :

In Bid to Free Steven Avery, Attorney Kathleen Zellner Seems to be Omitting Some Key Facts

 

[missy1974]

While I will agree that Bobby watched a lot of *advertiser censored*, I don't think it's crazy to think he might have looked up pictures of Teresa Halbach after the crime. If he was looking up bodies of dead females only after the TH murder, I probably would attribute that to curiosity as well. As for the violent *advertiser censored*, there is no proof that watching it would cause him to murder TH ... you need look no further than teenagers playing violent shooter games. The percentage that actually act out on acts from the video games is extremely small.

I do wonder about the child *advertiser censored* and BoD conducting MSN chats with underage girls. I don't know what the legal age of consent was in 1995 in WI, but BoD was only 20.

And BoD has never been charged with any crime as far as I tell.

And from Dan Abrams site :

In Bid to Free Steven Avery, Attorney Kathleen Zellner Seems to be Omitting Some Key Facts

So here's the thing... they actually used "that images of *advertiser censored*, torture and death may be relevant as to issues of intent, motive or Steven Avery's plan to commit violent or sexual torture against Teresa Halbach." in a search warrant. So what is good for one, should be good for another, no?

Here is an article that was originally published in 2005:

Police suspect torture in Halbach killing

There is a file with all the search warrants, but it's not in order and it's hard to find it, but I do recall finding it at some point and it's probably lost in one of the other threads lol http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Search-Warrant-File.pdf

I skimmed the article (sorry, long day at work lol).... first... it was written by Aaron Keller (yummy haha He is the silver fox reporter from MaM1 and was a reporter who was inspired to go to law school after this trial, I also think he is very fair in his articles/interviews).... second, I agree with some of what he says, but not all... I do think KZ played with words a bit. I *think* the images of Teresa and Steven that were on there were from after even Brendan was arrested, they were common photo's that were on news sites. There was more information filed after this article, and I recall actually going through them all.. sorry, but they are disturbing, I have 2 young men in my home, similar in age, and I would be concerned if they were googling the things that were being googled. I get that boys can be boys, but then there is a limit to that, IMO anyway Some of the things can't be dated, or they are dated "on or before such and such date", this is because Barb tried having the hard drive wiped and things are missing.

There are some things with that computer that we just do not have available to us, the CD has been sealed (I'm assuming because some of the images).

I do like KZ but I do not think she is infallible, I just finished watching episode 7 last night actually, and she made a comment that she is continually looking for new information, if the evidence leads her somewhere, that is where she is going to go, not all lawyers do that, but she does. I was critical of the ninja Ryan story... checked his phone records and some other things... and I can see how it "could" fit, doesn't mean it happened that way though, same with the Bobby scenario, I can see how it fits, doesn't mean it happened.

 

[Sustained]

IMO, the longer this goes on, the more diluted and twisted the evidence gets. The original report was that the computer was in Blaine's room, not Bobby's. And I'd be willing to be that SA either had a key to the Dassey's or they just left their door open so could've used the computer at any time. It would be easy to exclude SA as the user of the Dassey computer, but his cell records don't provide an alibi to the times KZ provided for computer use. Also, BoD worked until 6am and it was about a 20 minute drive home. So who was searching for *advertiser censored* @ 6am on 10/31 ? We'll never know.

 

[Sustained]

So here's the thing... they actually used "that images of *advertiser censored*, torture and death may be relevant as to issues of intent, motive or Steven Avery's plan to commit violent or sexual torture against Teresa Halbach." in a search warrant. So what is good for one, should be good for another, no?

Here is an article that was originally published in 2005:

Police suspect torture in Halbach killing

There is a file with all the search warrants, but it's not in order and it's hard to find it, but I do recall finding it at some point and it's probably lost in one of the other threads lol http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Search-Warrant-File.pdf

I skimmed the article (sorry, long day at work lol).... first... it was written by Aaron Keller (yummy haha He is the silver fox reporter from MaM1 and was a reporter who was inspired to go to law school after this trial, I also think he is very fair in his articles/interviews).... second, I agree with some of what he says, but not all... I do think KZ played with words a bit. I *think* the images of Teresa and Steven that were on there were from after even Brendan was arrested, they were common photo's that were on news sites. There was more information filed after this article, and I recall actually going through them all.. sorry, but they are disturbing, I have 2 young men in my home, similar in age, and I would be concerned if they were googling the things that were being googled. I get that boys can be boys, but then there is a limit to that, IMO anyway Some of the things can't be dated, or they are dated "on or before such and such date", this is because Barb tried having the hard drive wiped and things are missing.

There are some things with that computer that we just do not have available to us, the CD has been sealed (I'm assuming because some of the images).

I do like KZ but I do not think she is infallible, I just finished watching episode 7 last night actually, and she made a comment that she is continually looking for new information, if the evidence leads her somewhere, that is where she is going to go, not all lawyers do that, but she does. I was critical of the ninja Ryan story... checked his phone records and some other things... and I can see how it "could" fit, doesn't mean it happened that way though, same with the Bobby scenario, I can see how it fits, doesn't mean it happened.

BBM - her story about BoD is unbelievable to me. She's got BoD collecting blood from SA's sink (while SA and CA were at Menard's) and depositing it in the Rav4 which at the time was purported to be at the Old
Dam at Two Rivers on 11/3. Which also means BoD deposited the DNA on the hood latch and wiped the car down of any of his prints.

She's also now got Blaine saying he saw BoD driving a green SUV east on 147 at 3:40-3:45. Well, I'm guessing Blaine was on a school bus at that time, and like most kids was not paying attention to cars passing in the other direction on a rural road. Funny how Blaine remembered that 12+ year later.

KZ wins either way - if she gets SA a new trial or outright exoneration, she's a hero. If her appeals keep getting denied, she can just point to Wisconsin corruption and say that her experts have created reasonable doubt and the State doesn't want to admit it.

 

[Karinna]

(quote)
One user asked Zellner if the only solution left to free Avery might be political and wondered if it would take certain government officials and judges being unseated to accomplish the goal.
When asked by multiple Twitter users if she would continue to defend Avery, even if it takes an incredibly long time, Zellner replied: “Absolutely. We never give up on our clients who are innocent.”

Another user asked if he was coming close to “exhausting all of his appeals,” to which she replied “absolutely not,” and that he is only just beginning the appeal process due to the fact that he didn’t have a lawyer until she took in case in 2016.

Zellner responded: “We still believe that we will prevail with the scientific evidence and Brady violations that we have unmasked. We have not given up on the Wisconsin court system to reverse and send Avery’s case for an evidentiary hearing.”
Kathleen Zellner, Steven Avery’s Attorney, Answers Fan Questions | Heavy.com

 

[missy1974]

IMO, the longer this goes on, the more diluted and twisted the evidence gets. The original report was that the computer was in Blaine's room, not Bobby's. And I'd be willing to be that SA either had a key to the Dassey's or they just left their door open so could've used the computer at any time. It would be easy to exclude SA as the user of the Dassey computer, but his cell records don't do provide an alibi to the times KZ provided for computer use. Also, BoD worked until 6am and it was about a 20 minute drive home. So who was searching for *advertiser censored* @ 6am on 10/31. We'll never know.

I do believe they have photo's and/or video of the computer in Bobby's room, I think it was even shown in MaM1. Blaine and Brendan shared a room IIRC. I know that Bobby and Barb have denied this and also even denied they had internet... but we know that's not true too ;-)

I'm not sure about the 6am time on the 31st? The last report I saw only had the dates and not the times I think.

 

[Karinna]

I do think some or most of the wrongful convictions that get overturned can be overturned on new DNA/forensic evidence, as well as any legal constitutional violations.
In SA's case i know that some of the scientific methods since Avery was first convicted have improved, as KZ's investigators have shown in the MAM2 series. All IMO.

 

[Karinna]

I do believe they have photo's and/or video of the computer in Bobby's room, I think it was even shown in MaM1. Blaine and Brendan shared a room IIRC. I know that Bobby and Barb have denied this and also even denied they had internet... but we know that's not true too ;-)

I'm not sure about the 6am time on the 31st? The last report I saw only had the dates and not the times I think.

With regards to the most recent developments in the case, Zellner has filed a motion with the Wisconsin Court of Appeals to supplement the record to include the recently disclosed Velie CD. In case you need a reminder, former Detective Michael Velie was tasked with conducting forensic examinations for the computers of Steven Avery, Teresa Halbach, and the home computer of Barbara Tadych, Brendan Dassey’s mother, during the investigation into the murder of Halbach.
Kathleen Zellner, Steven Avery’s Attorney, Answers Fan Questions | Heavy.com

 

[missy1974]

BBM - her story about BoD is unbelievable to me. She's got BoD collecting blood from SA's sink (while SA and CA were at Menard's) and depositing it in the Rav4 which at the time was purported to be at the Old
Dam at Two Rivers on 11/3. Which also means BoD deposited the DNA on the hood latch and wiped the car down of any of his prints.

She's also now got Blaine saying he saw BoD driving a green SUV east on 147 at 3:40-3:45. Well, I'm guessing Blaine was on a school bus at that time, and like most kids was not paying attention to cars passing in the other direction on a rural road. Funny how Blaine remembered that 12+ year later.

KZ wins either way - if she gets SA a new trial or outright exoneration, she's a hero. If her appeals keep getting denied, she can just point to Wisconsin corruption and say that her experts have created reasonable doubt and the State doesn't want to admit it.

Ultimately, it's about reasonable doubt, isn't it? I think KZ has said that Bobby had the RAV4 hidden in the cul-de-sac on Kuss Rd... I get what you are saying about a witness saying it was elsewhere, but again, it's about doubt, right?

The hood latch... she is saying that it was just swapped out, the groin sample was submitted and labelled as the hood latch.

Couldn't bobby have been wearing gloves? I mean, that is the excuse used for no SA's prints, yet he bled everywhere... wouldn't it make sense that Bobby was wearing gloves, so no prints left?

I will say... KZ's theories have evolved and changed, or maybe she has more than one theory at this point. You almost have to go back to her original filing in August 2016, read all of it, and the exhibits... and then follow along as they were filed to be able to understand it all (whether you believe it or not, it shows how information has come to light that caused theories to change/evolve). Shoot, one of the filings, might have been the first one, was over 1000 pages with the exhibits!

 

[Karinna]

IMO, KZ's theories change and evolve the more that is discovered in her ongoing investigations.
I believe at this point in time it is still an ongoing investigation as well, so she isn't done yet.

 

[Saul Vesalot]

IMO, KZ's theories change and evolve the more that is discovered in her ongoing investigations.
I believe at this point in time it is still an ongoing investigation as well, so she isn't done yet.

I think it would be very weird if her ideas didn't change and evolve. It would mean she wasn't learning anything new or she was overly stubborn with her original idea.

 

[Cartie]

But they all must know which makes it really surprising no one has leaked anything.

Didn't the coroner get sacked or pressured into leaving because she tried to speak out?
My memory is terrible so apologies if that is incorrect

 

[proudfootz]

While I will agree that Bobby watched a lot of *advertiser censored*, I don't think it's crazy to think he might have looked up pictures of Teresa Halbach after the crime. If he was looking up bodies of dead females only after the TH murder, I probably would attribute that to curiosity as well. As for the violent *advertiser censored*, there is no proof that watching it would cause him to murder TH ... you need look no further than teenagers playing violent shooter games. The percentage that actually act out on acts from the video games is extremely small.

I do wonder about the child *advertiser censored* and BoD conducting MSN chats with underage girls. I don't know what the legal age of consent was in 1995 in WI, but BoD was only 20.

And BoD has never been charged with any crime as far as I tell.

And from Dan Abrams site :

In Bid to Free Steven Avery, Attorney Kathleen Zellner Seems to be Omitting Some Key Facts

BBM

I'd agree that watching videos may not be the cause of behavior. On the other hand whatever causes BoD to have an obsession with viewing images of violence against women might also cause violent behavior against women.

Meanwhile any number of things about Steven's behavior are speculated as being related to the allegation he committed a crime against Teresa: something involving cruelty to one cat 20 years previously, his being imprisoned causing him to be bitter toward women, his being imprisoned causing him to feel society 'owed' him a free crime, his being exonerated causing him to feel untouchable, etc.

In my view, sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

I have no reason to suppose the images of TH on the computer were downloaded before she disappeared.

All MOO

 

[proudfootz]

Didn't the coroner get sacked or pressured into leaving because she tried to speak out?
My memory is terrible so apologies if that is incorrect

IIRC Coroner Debra Kakatsch states that she was blocked from investigating this case, was threatened with arrest if she persisted, and began to feel unsafe in the execution of her duties due to hostility from other law enforcement employees.

ETA: syntax and clarity.