GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #60

[Jupiter05]

Ok. I give up. This thread is like being on a merry-go-round. So many interesting things to discuss from the discovery docs. but nope let's perpetuate the hate and vitriol toward others. Hate is a wasted emotion and gets nothing done.

We are pointing to the discovery and interviews over and over. Have you read the discovery and watched the interviews? The proof is all there.

 

[Layla123]

No. My thoughts would be horror. Incredible fear for the missing children. Despair when they were found. Not:

"Amber Frey book deal."

"Amber Frey net worth."

"Can the police recover deleted texts."

I believe she is a person of low character. Not because of the affair. (Although dating a person whose wife is only a couple months pregnant is pretty gross. So is "Pawn it!")

Things like affairs with married people can happen even with good people.

No. To me she is a person of low character because her reputation was vastly more important than the welfare of two innocent little girls. She deleted evidence in a missing persons' case. She lied to the FBI.

And she wasn't numbed with horror over the death of babies. She was coldly considering her possible net worth.

Moments like these are when we get to decide who we are.

"Are we bad people?"

IMO. Yes. Yes, NK. You are.

NK is a person of low self esteem, you, my friend, are not. You would never think like NK. Me, I used to have low self esteem, but with a lot of therapy and hard honest work on myself, I grew out of it. I understand how it works and the self destructive behavior that goes along with it. Women with healthy self esteem do not enter into relationships with married men. They take better care of themselves. What more could she do for those little girls than what she did? As soon as she realized CW was lying about everything, she contacted the police, she gave them everything they asked for. Yes, she did delete her messages before going to the police because she was embarrassed and ashamed and hating CW and wanted to erase him from her life, and maybe didn’t realize how important her sex life was to the investigation, but she willingly handed everything over to the police when they asked for it. She agreed to sit for every interview they asked for. What more could she have done? It’s not every day your illicit boyfriend turns out to be a world famous Family Annihilator.

 

[Jennifer17]

Ok. I give up. This thread is like being on a merry-go-round. So many interesting things to discuss from the discovery docs. but nope let's perpetuate the hate and vitriol toward others. Hate is a wasted emotion and gets nothing done.

That incident is in the discovery docs. And respectfully, hate and vitriol is not new to this thread. There was plenty of it toward Shanann before his plea deal.

 

[Iam Nana!]

I believe DA Rourke is a pretty good judge of character. He has no use for CW, his parents or NK. That's good enough for me.

 

[k-mac]

I like statements of facts and if it can't be verified then it should be stated as MOO. Saying someone did something intentionally and that someone is a witch is an opinion, not a fact.

I've been coming across this quite frequently and it's starting to grate.

I didn't ask your opinion on facts and moos etc.
you rightfully so ask questions and get replies only fair that you throw out counter arguments that you do the same.

my question to you was can you answer how it could be taken innocently?

tia

 

[njbchgal]

It seems to me overall is that CW and SW perceptions of their marriage was way off from one another. I think CW was harboring alot for years. I think CW has been unfaithful to SW in other ways prior to this(internet, etc. etc. whatever) and got lucky with NK, especially his confidence getting more fit. SW and her in laws clearly they never liked her(SW was married before - maybe judgement from CW family/disapproval most likely). That just fueled the fire, and CW didn't defend SW really with the mama watts( we all see that sick dynamic in the watts family for sure). I think CW killed SW first, then the kids. CW behavior in an affair and detachment is classic, he wanted out. His dinner with NK charged is definitely him checking out, but got challenged by SW and her "snooping". I did find it interesting SW was checking up on his spending on saturday, she may have witnessed things in the past and never talked to anyone about it till recently - I honestly do feel SW had a very strong personality and her strong desire to want the good image and her business she didn't want to see the relationship for what it was.....just speculating that she just kept at CW and he took it, and has been done for a long time but didn't have the balls to end the marriage the right way. His incompatibility is such a classic line when someone else is in the picture. I cannot understand CW actions to kill his children baffles me. If it was a rage killing and arguing etc etc but to silently smother them boggles my mind. I can see him killing SW but not innocent children. To me its a marriage that wasn't there for some time, and CW just bottom line wanted out. Shame on NK for not just owning her actions.....she had lust in her eyes - amazing when affairs happen its like heroin/addiction.....

 

[jayjay54]

Great perspective!

Personally I think the "Skater Boy" terminology is quite funny - I'm sure SW wasn't trying to be hateful when she said it. Have the Watts' no sense of humour? I have been wondering how old CW was when he moved out of his parents' home. Did he wait until he was married, or leave and live an independent life prior to that? Just wondering, as I know 2 sisters raised in a very dysfunctional home - one left home at 16, and seems reasonable normal, but admits she's "pretty screwed up". The other sister left home to marry at age 24, and is really scary - 8 more years 0f parents' influence at close quarters.

 

[NanZDrew]

I suppose you are right. for whatever reason , I wish we knew the order in which he killed them. I keep wondering if somewhere he slipped and revealed a clue. It doesn't matter i suppose, just trying to wrap my head around when he solidified the plan, and how he went about executing the plan. we will probably never know

What I would like to see would be texts and e-mails between NK and CW. Most of the CW information obtained came from SW's phone, and I have found those texts to be very telling and very heartbreaking.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I'm MOOING right along with you!!!!

Moo

 

[gitana1]

I like statements of facts and if it can't be verified then it should be stated as MOO. Saying someone did something intentionally and that someone is a witch is an opinion, not a fact.

I've been coming across this quite frequently and it's starting to grate.

Yeah I remember when posts were stating as fact that a murder victim was a bad, abusive mother and domestic abuser of her husband.

It did indeed grate.

 

[Jennifer17]

Yeah I remember when posts were stating as fact that a murder victim was a bad, abusive mother and domestic abuser of her husband.

It did indeed grate.

Yes, with no facts.

 

[NanZDrew]

It will be interesting to see the body language and to hear the voices, but I believe everything we have read in the discovery is all there is. This will just be seeing it with our own eyes. No new revelations IMO.

I'd like to hear what NK's creepy giggle sounded like that we have heard so much about.

 

[MsBetsy]

I like statements of facts and if it can't be verified then it should be stated as MOO. Saying someone did something intentionally and that someone is a witch is an opinion, not a fact.

I've been coming across this quite frequently and it's starting to grate.

I don't see how the daughter putting a bowl of nuts on the table after Shanann showed concern was unintentional. Imo

 

[stereopticons]

Thanks so much!! I'm not a pro and we need you on here. But I'm trying to cobble together what seems like it might fit.

Thanks for the info that he probably won't fit any specific diagnosis. I wondered if family annihilators might often be outliers.

The psychology is so intriguing.

Yeah, I think family annihilators are different because it always seems to come from nowhere. They are so often described as mild-mannered, caring, loving, nice, etc. but when you look closer, there’s something there. I’m not sure we’ve identified what that something is yet. It is fascinating though.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

I believe DA Rourke is a pretty good judge of character. He has no use for CW, his parents or NK. That's good enough for me.

DA Rourke said she hampered the investigation, hampered their ability to get the electronic digital connection between the two, and that she was "mostly" forthcoming.

That says a lot about NK.

Moo

 

[k-mac]

NK is a person of low self esteem, you, my friend, are not. You would never think like NK. Me, I used to have low self esteem, but with a lot of therapy and hard honest work on myself, I grew out of it. I understand how it works and the self destructive behavior that goes along with it. Women with healthy self esteem do not enter into relationships with married men. They take better care of themselves. What more could she do for those little girls than what she did? As soon as she realized CW was lying about everything, she contacted the police, she gave them everything they asked for. Yes, she did delete her messages before going to the police because she was embarrassed and ashamed and hating CW and wanted to erase him from her life, and maybe didn’t realize how important her sex life was to the investigation, but she willingly handed everything over to the police when they asked for it. She agreed to sit for every interview they asked for. What more could she have done? It’s not every day your illicit boyfriend turns out to be a world famous Family Annihilator.

I think your posts are very thoughtful Layla and I don't counter them lightly you say some very relevant points.
I don't believe NK has self esteem issues.
the people who work with her don't have high opinions but that is just hear say agiven.

the loudest action of dominance I seen between NK and CW was not coming from chris.
sending text telling someone to "work on their marriage' followed by nude selfies to hot blooded man is extremely manipulative imo

 

[Layla123]

BBM. But you didn't google "tightrope walking in a canyon" in the context of someone you know suspiciously dying in a canyon....NK googled "AF book deal" in the context of her married lover murdering his entire family.

NK googled “AF book deal” in the context of this was the new person she had become. Amber Frey was now a role model. NK was now world famous for being a mistress whose married boyfriend murdered his family. I think it’s possible for her to think about what was going to become of her and how horrible what CW did was at the same time. This is just MOO.

 

[burghl3zz]

NK is a person of low self esteem, you, my friend, are not. You would never think like NK. Me, I used to have low self esteem, but with a lot of therapy and hard honest work on myself, I grew out of it. I understand how it works and the self destructive behavior that goes along with it. Women with healthy self esteem do not enter into relationships with married men. They take better care of themselves. What more could she do for those little girls than what she did? As soon as she realized CW was lying about everything, she contacted the police, she gave them everything they asked for. Yes, she did delete her messages before going to the police because she was embarrassed and ashamed and hating CW and wanted to erase him from her life, and maybe didn’t realize how important her sex life was to the investigation, but she willingly handed everything over to the police when they asked for it. She agreed to sit for every interview they asked for. What more could she have done? It’s not every day your illicit boyfriend turns out to be a world famous Family Annihilator.

well said, layla. low self esteem causes people to make bad decisions. it does not make them bad people.

 

[cattlekate]

How do you reconcile the fact that Shanann sent Mama Watts a list of foods that the girls could have, and communicated with her repeatedly about Cece's nut allergy.....then Mama Watts and Sister Watts deliberately shove the nuts right under the girls nose? What is your opinion about that? The communication regarding this is all in discovery. How do you even excuse this type of beavior?IMO

The discovery docs have Shanann’s and Sandra’s version of what happened.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Do you know for a fact that it was done to intentionally annoy (paraphrased!) her though?

We only have the word of a victim who has been murdered, and I am personally willing to give her the benefit of the doubt in a she said/she said scenario. Particularly since some of the opinions of the one who is alive (Cindy) appear to be false such as SW being bipolar and a narcissist. But that is just my personal opinion. There is no way to know for a fact what transpired that day. IMO