GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #60

[Tuliptiptoe]

And to me her statement in court sounded less like acceptance and more like "please don't sue us for all the slandering we've done" damage control. They hit all the key points.

They couldn't forgive SW an 8 year old comment about "skater boy", but in court forgive CW for murdering 4 people.

There's nothing good to say about any of them.

Moo

 

[Jupiter05]

I feel like I remember there being two separate incidents where the nuts became an issue at Cindy's house. Am I mistaken?

If so, it shows blatant disregard over SW's authority as a parent and the safety of her kids. I almost wish SW would have handed them doctor's notes because that's how petty and insistent I would have been if I had in-laws like that.

Yes, the sister put a BOWL OF NUTS on the table after the incident with mama Watts. It sounds so hateful to me. Anyone who is a mother knows that instinct to protect your children is fierce. And there have been numerous reports of children dying from unwittingly ingesting peanuts even after using an epipen. It is real. Maybe the Watts do not read newspapers or watch the news.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't, I think they did it more because of their religious beliefs.

Which were also Shananns beliefs.

 

[Jupiter05]

They couldn't forgive SW an 8 year old comment about "skater boy", but in court forgive CW for murdering 4 people.

There's nothing good to say about any of them.

Moo

Great perspective!

 

[Layla123]

I prefer to stay out of their crosshairs.

They’re everywhere. At work, at church, in your mommy groups, your children’s school, the gym. Cheaters are everywhere, and you usually don’t find out who they are until you’re really good friends.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

They couldn't forgive SW an 8 year old comment about "skater boy", but in court forgive CW for murdering 4 people.

There's nothing good to say about any of them.

Moo

I'm MOOING right along with you!!!!

 

[gitana1]

Put yourself in NK’s shoes. All of a sudden you’re famous. Everyone in the world wants to know everything there is to know about you, and not for a good reason, but for a very horrible, tragic, despicable, disgusting reason. Wouldn’t you want to know what to expect? What your future might hold? How to take care of yourself? NK found out Amber Frey wrote a book. She was curious how well the book did. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Doesn’t mean NK wants to write a book, too.

No. My thoughts would be horror. Incredible fear for the missing children. Despair when they were found. Not:

"Amber Frey book deal."

"Amber Frey net worth."

"Can the police recover deleted texts."

I believe she is a person of low character. Not because of the affair. (Although dating a person whose wife is only a couple months pregnant is pretty gross. So is "Pawn it!")

Things like affairs with married people can happen even with good people.

No. To me she is a person of low character because her reputation was vastly more important than the welfare of two innocent little girls. She deleted evidence in a missing persons' case. She lied to the FBI.

And she wasn't numbed with horror over the death of babies. She was coldly considering her possible net worth.

Moments like these are when we get to decide who we are.

"Are we bad people?"

IMO. Yes. Yes, NK. You are.

 

[scdiv]

Once again I'm not saying it's kind or wise or what I would do. I know older people that give all kinds of advice on children that I think is bunk about not spoiling babies by picking them up too much or rubbing booze on their gums when they're teething. Idk maybe I have some extra crappy older family members.

I can agree they were pretty suspicious and down on Shanann, I just still feel sorry for them. I have seen it hinted here and there that they may have been plotting along with Chris and I don't think that follows (though I wouldn't say it's impossible because none of this case makes sense). I'm just saying I can see them having been the way they were without ever having wanted or anticipated the tragic end of it all.

I don't think they were plotting along with Chris. Actually I think CW actively blocked any attempts to interact with them. Mama Watts was ready to fight to the end with anything she could throw against a guilty verdict, regardless if it was based on truth or facts. They were all set to blame "unstable," "bipolar," and "narcissistic" Shanann for his crimes. Who even at the very end, with how atrocious CW was being toward her, was loving, thanking him for watching his daughters so she could go on a work trip, thanking him for "letting" her embrace him, and worried about not waking the stupid jerk up late at night when her flight was delayed. Her character and intentions (and stability) shined through.

His family was willing to throw the worst slanderous accusations against her and go along with CW saying SW killed her daughters. I don't think CW even stuck with that story for very long. At least he had the good sense to drop it, but they were still ready to go there. I am very happy they did not get to plot with him! But no, I don't think it was ever alluded to that his parents were in any way accomplices or responsible for his actions. He may have had a dysfunctional family dynamic, but he's an adult who made his own choices.

Can anyone here honestly say they would be 100% comfortable with their entire google search history being public info?? I’ll be the first to admit that I would be completely mortified if that happened to me.

Also a few months back while hanging
Out with my sister, we googled wedding dresses on my phone (and hers) for her upcoming wedding. I’m not having an affair or fantasizing about marrying anyone (except Ryan Gosling) but it’s very possible NK was looking with / for her friend.

I can only imagine my search history. And they would also be like wow, that girl was sure on websleuths a lot!

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

I took as they were told they better play nice if they wanted to speak their piece. It didn't go past me that all the thoughtful and sympathetic comments were voiced by the victim advocate but their statements were 99% about their son. Like they couldn't stomach having to say those words themselves.

It was so bizarre. Victim impact statements are supposed to be about the loss of the victims. They turned it into a weird eulogy about their son. Which, I guess could fit since he's so dead inside.

Yes! I was so bothered that the "apology" was spoken by the advocate, but they found their voice for the rest of their narcissistic statement.

I also got the impression they were given a warning on what would be allowed if they wanted to speak.

Moo

 

[Allabouttrial]

if shanann informed cindy before arriving about the nut allergy (we all know nut allergies are life threatening...its not like hives or something )then why else would cindy have nuts in the house ...can you answer how it could be taken innocently?

I like statements of facts and if it can't be verified then it should be stated as MOO. Saying someone did something intentionally and that someone is a witch is an opinion, not a fact.

I've been coming across this quite frequently and it's starting to grate.

 

[riolove77]

I feel like I remember there being two separate incidents where the nuts became an issue at Cindy's house. Am I mistaken?

If so, it shows blatant disregard over SW's authority as a parent and the safety of her kids. I almost wish SW would have handed them doctor's notes because that's how petty and insistent I would have been if I had in-laws like that.

BBM. They would've said she wrote the doctors' notes herself. That's just who these people are.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

No. My thoughts would be horror. Incredible fear for the missing children. Despair when they were found. Not:

"Amber Frey book deal."

"Amber Frey net worth."

"Can the police recover deleted texts."

I believe she is a person of low character. Not because of the affair. (Although dating a person whose wife is only a couple months pregnant is pretty gross. So is "Pawn it!")

Things like affairs with married people can happen even with good people.

No. To me she is a person of low character because her reputation was vastly more important than the welfare of two innocent little girls. She deleted evidence in a missing persons' case. She lied to the FBI.

And she wasn't numbed with horror over the death of babies. She was coldly considering her possible net worth.

Moments like these are when we get to decide who we are.

"Are we bad people?"

IMO. Yes. Yes, NK. You are.

And at least the world is aware of that fact. Yeah.

 

[gitana1]

This is really great, gitana! I really think it's more helpful than diagnostic criteria for a PD or other disorder, because while all of these would help identify CW, I don't think he fits any specific disorder.

Thanks so much!! I'm not a pro and we need you on here. But I'm trying to cobble together what seems like it might fit.

Thanks for the info that he probably won't fit any specific diagnosis. I wondered if family annihilators might often be outliers.

The psychology is so intriguing.

 

[MassGuy]

I like statements of facts and if it can't be verified then it should be stated as MOO. Saying someone did something intentionally and that someone is a witch is an opinion, not a fact.

I've been coming across this quite frequently and it's starting to grate.

It’s all right there in the discovery document.

Cindy was aware of the nut allergy, was told to keep nuts away, and did what she wanted to do anyways.

This was not an innocent mistake. The act was intentional, although its purpose is open to a bit of speculation.

Personally, I’m not having any issue discerning fact from opinion on here.

 

[riolove77]

That’s why I have so much understanding! I google everything. Doesn’t mean I’m going to run out and do it, I’m just curious and interested. I googled tightrope walking across a canyon the other day. No way, no how, never going to happen, I’m not going to do it. Ever.

BBM. But you didn't google "tightrope walking in a canyon" in the context of someone you know suspiciously dying in a canyon....NK googled "AF book deal" in the context of her married lover murdering his entire family.

 

[Jennifer17]

I like statements of facts and if it can't be verified then it should be stated as MOO. Saying someone did something intentionally and that someone is a witch is an opinion, not a fact.

I've been coming across this quite frequently and it's starting to grate.

Was it a statement of fact that SW murdered her children? There were no facts, but the words of a liar.

 

[Jupiter05]

I like statements of facts and if it can't be verified then it should be stated as MOO. Saying someone did something intentionally and that someone is a witch is an opinion, not a fact.

I've been coming across this quite frequently and it's starting to grate.

How do you reconcile the fact that Shanann sent Mama Watts a list of foods that the girls could have, and communicated with her repeatedly about Cece's nut allergy.....then Mama Watts and Sister Watts deliberately shove the nuts right under the girls nose? What is your opinion about that? The communication regarding this is all in discovery. How do you even excuse this type of beavior?IMO

 

[Allabouttrial]

Ok. I give up. This thread is like being on a merry-go-round. So many interesting things to discuss from the discovery docs. but nope let's perpetuate the hate and vitriol toward others. Hate is a wasted emotion and gets nothing done.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

Was it a statement of fact that SW murdered her children? There were no facts, but the words of a liar.

A lot of people took his statement as fact that SW did it. They even analyzed all her videos to prove to themselves and other that SW was nasty.

 

[NanZDrew]

Just a reminder for everyone that I'm putting together a detailed timeline from the discovery docs, so that no one else duplicates. As you can imagine it's taking a while, because of the number of pages to go through and writing the corresponding notes.

That is so awesome! Thank you! So often I spend hours trying to find something I had already read. You are a gem, Tortoise!