AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #26

[JnRyan]

I have been following this case closely. In my opinion I think the focus of motive still needs to remain on Jayme. I am not one of those people believing she had some internet boyfriend/ secret boyfriend. I do think however there might have been a man that spotted her in real life or online and was obsessed with her.

If the perpetrator was after the parents for some reason I think that Jayme would have been found dead that night.

It makes no sense to go to the house for retribution of any kind, find Jayme, and decide then to take her along.

This is my opinion, and only an opinion. There are so many unknown factors in this case atm. If and when we get more information my opinion may change.

If we play the odds, I agree the most likely event is that Jayme would have been killed if the parents were the target. However, I think back to the Bible/Freeman case in OK where Freeman's father was the target and the killers took the two girls anyway instead of killing them on site. A big difference here is Freeman's father was involved with marijuana and owed some less-than-outstanding citizens money. We don't see that here.

I originally thought this might be a 17-21 year old who was obsessed with Jayme, now I'm thinking this just as likely be anyone from 17-45 years old. I'm hoping LE finds something by going back 60 days in phone and social media history, but I doubt it. I just don't believe someone obsessed with Jayme would be communicating and then abruptly stop 30-60 days before, but who knows.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Very plausible theory in my opinion.

i think stats say she’s deceased but I could see anything.. I thought that was odd to....
To speak with certainty...

But if jayme has no bloody footprints or anything to say dead.. be optimistic.. hope mixed up kid in over head with first crush...

I could also see jayme bolt out back with perp choking her dead 25 yards from house.. then he’s got to take body.. hope that didn’t happen

If he kept her alive 5/10 days. Think they were telling check out clerks look for weirdos buying 10 Starbucks ..

I don’t see jayme offing parents. Could see her liking bad kid that is evil wrapped in a normal face.

 

[JnRyan]

The more I look at this, the more I believe the timeline for that evening is up in the air. The sheriff indicated in an interview that the killer being in the home only 4-5 minutes is going to leave very little in forensic evidence. But that ignores the two shots the neighbors heard 25 minutes before the 911 call that alerted LE.

For that matter how do I know this even started at the time of the gunshots? Granted, the father being found dead near the door would seem to indicate that he was shot immediately after the break-in. We know Denise made a phone call or text to someone around 10 PM and then there is a 2.5 hour gap to the gunshots. I don't remember any reporting of texting or phone activity in that time frame. For all I know the killer(s) could have broke in 11 PM or midnight and something occurred at 12:30 to cause the killer(s) to shoot him and he falls near or crawls to the door. (Why the killer(s) would be in the house for 30 minutes to an hour before the 12:30 gunshots is up for speculation. But it might shed light on the motive or methods of the killer(s).) I do believe this did occur in a short time frame, but I see no concrete proof of that scenario.

 

[Rosiebones]

It seems to me that this won't be solved until Jayme is found and then LE can work backwards providing that there is usable information gained. My heart says she will be found alive but head says otherwise. If LE indicates that they don't have solid facts to go forward with in terms of motive or suspects then it may become a waiting game for Jayme to show up. My own take on this is someone close by, known to family and Jayme. People don't just disappear into thin air forever.

 

[Rubiconbob]

i completely agree...i would think officers are trained to err on the side of caution so they dont lead other officers into the line of danger ..i would like to know why the officers inital reaction was possible suicide and not simply man down...

Based on forensics/ ballistics they’ve classified this as homicide in both deaths..

Likely double o0 shotgun shot through wooden door killed James. Which would be top 5 most elebarote suicide...
<modsnip - personalizing/rude>

 

[JnRyan]

The Petit family were followed home from the grocery store and killed by strangers.

Victims are often followed from a public location.

If JC stopping by Burger King triggered a known to the Cross’s perp with a grudge or desire for Jayme it wouldn’t be for a hamburger, no, I really don’t think anyone believes that.

That is why LE uses a time line of all known interactions to see where a crime victim may have crossed paths with a perp.

For all we know JC may have unknowingly pulled in front of a meth rager and never even know he set them off until it was too late.


IMO

Road rage? Yes, I can see that as another possibility. A murder/abduction by a stranger or strangers would be difficult to solve.

 

[aliensporebomb]

I don't know where the information came from that you need to have a permit for a police scanner because that's not true in the majority of the US. Established by the 1934 communications act, all airwaves in the US are public property.

The only restrictions I know of placed on police scanners are
- 5 states make it illegal to use one while driving (WI is not one)
(some states have exemptions for licensed ham operators)
- 10 states make it illegal to use a police scanner to further a crime (WI is not one)


Edited to add : aliensporebomb, Are you thinking of radar detectors? Those are very different than police scanners.

I live in Minnesota where a permit is required (or had been in the past - it's been years since I looked into having a scanner in the car) to have a scanner in the car. Radar detectors are a different story.

 

[aliensporebomb]

I'm curious why Jayme's phone was charging in the kitchen.. I know many kids who have a cell phone also use them as an alarm clock to wake up in the morning. I'm curious if she had been using it at night when she was supposed to be sleeping and it was taken away and she had to leave it in the kitchen charging due to overuse or misuse?

Many parents restrict the phones of younger kids and younger teens by keeping them in the kitchen to avoid the temptation of using them at night. In other words, restrict night access before it becomes a problem.

 

[bellyup]

So I’m doing dishes this morning, always a zen activity . . . Thinking about this case and the Sheriff convinced she was alive from Day#1........
Is it possible she left behind indications that she was “leaving”, that she had packed ~ left a note? Perhaps it was a matter of “running away” and plans went south, fast. Could she have been caught sneaking out for a meet-up and her folks caught her and when she didn’t show up, the perp came to get her? There is so much missing here, it’s infuriating.

Snipped by me.

I agree. The early way that things were handled and worded have led me to believe that LE and police believed that Jayme was with someone she knew. The lack of searching and lack of cadaver dogs supports this, IMO. They didn’t (and still don’t?) think they are looking for a body.

It’s honestly my one glimmer of hope that Jayme is or could be alive. That whomever took her is known to her and has an affinity for her in a non sexual manner. Like a little sister or a daughter.

I know most people believe that Jayme was taken for sexual perversion purposes and that is certainly the most likely and common scenario but my gut keeps saying that’s not what happened here. I hope it’s right.

 

[ShaylaVale]

If we play the odds, I agree the most likely event is that Jayme would have been killed if the parents were the target. However, I think back to the Bible/Freeman case in OK where Freeman's father was the target and the killers took the two girls anyway instead of killing them on site. A big difference here is Freeman's father was involved with marijuana and owed some less-than-outstanding citizens money. We don't see that here.

I originally thought this might be a 17-21 year old who was obsessed with Jayme, now I'm thinking this just as likely be anyone from 17-45 years old. I'm hoping LE finds something by going back 60 days in phone and social media history, but I doubt it. I just don't believe someone obsessed with Jayme would be communicating and then abruptly stop 30-60 days before, but who knows.

I don't believe if there was some obsessed guy, that he had to be in contact with her at all... He could have seen her in the community, or online and decided she was his target.

Before the internet, child molesters had to physically go out and hunt their victims. Today teenagers posts their lives online. Even if it was just a selfie... A predator could look at that... find their location (most of the time teenagers make it easy by posting school information, or outright posting where they live) and easily find his victims without ever leaving their house.

I really don't get the feeling here that it was a target of the parents... That is just my opinion. Based on the information we know, things that I have studied, and work I have done in the field. I cannot become a verified source or what it is called. As I worked only as an intern for 5 years... but never completed my internship because the death of my Employer... So I will just State that everything that I have posted is my opinion...

 

[bellyup]

I originally thought this might be a 17-21 year old who was obsessed with Jayme, now I'm thinking this just as likely be anyone from 17-45 years old. I'm hoping LE finds something by going back 60 days in phone and social media history, but I doubt it. I just don't believe someone obsessed with Jayme would be communicating and then abruptly stop 30-60 days before, but who knows.

If James / Denise put a stop to communication at some point it would make sense to go back pretty far.

My best theory still remains that this is someone Jayme was close to in a NON sexual way. A close friend, a confidant, whatever to this person. Maybe they had a difficult home life and Jayme was kind to them. For whatever reason (maybe the person had gotten into trouble, been making bad decisions or started behaving in concerning ways toward Jayme) Jayme was removed from their life. They resented that, harbored it (maybe for a long time) and this crime was the end result.

It’s the only way I can line things up in a way that makes sense.

 

[JnRyan]

I don't believe if there was some obsessed guy, that he had to be in contact with her at all... He could have seen her in the community, or online and decided she was his target.

Before the internet, child molesters had to physically go out and hunt their victims. Today teenagers posts their lives online. Even if it was just a selfie... A predator could look at that... find their location (most of the time teenagers make it easy by posting school information, or outright posting where they live) and easily find his victims without ever leaving their house.

I really don't get the feeling here that it was a target of the parents... That is just my opinion. Based on the information we know, things that I have studied, and work I have done in the field. I cannot become a verified source or what it is called. As I worked only as an intern for 5 years... but never completed my internship because the death of my Employer... So I will just State that everything that I have posted is my opinion...

Exactly. If there was any communication I believe LE would have come across it by now.

 

[Maybelline]

Snipped by me.

I agree. The early way that things were handled and worded have led me to believe that LE and police believed that Jayme was with someone she knew. The lack of searching and lack of cadaver dogs supports this, IMO. They didn’t (and still don’t?) think they are looking for a body.

It’s honestly my one glimmer of hope that Jayme is or could be alive. That whomever took her is known to her and has an affinity for her in a non sexual manner. Like a little sister or a daughter.

I know most people believe that Jayme was taken for sexual perversion purposes and that is certainly the most likely and common scenario but my gut keeps saying that’s not what happened here. I hope it’s right.

Am I remembering right - did the brother of Denise say in an interview he had ideas of who might have done this? One of the sisters said she had different ideas from time to time but said it like she was just more confused (not quoting here - just trying to remember) but the brother had a more angry face when he indicated he had an idea and acted more certain.

 

[Ms Buffyton]

This is a link that I posted a few weeks ago. It is just proof that things can go bad and people will do things to try and get back at people. This just happened last year AT THE BARRON JENNIE O PLANT. It is an interesting read beginning on page 5 at the bottom of column 4.
http://www.cumberland-advocate.com/sites/default/files/*advertiser censored*-2017-09-13-a-001 e-edition.pdf

Wow!! Thanks for re-posting!! This is what happens when I don't log in for a few weeks....I miss important posts!! Very interesting. Work relationships can be complicated.

 

[JnRyan]

I hope the community is being aware of who might have not shown up for work on Monday or was late. LE usually states to be aware of anyone who changes their appearance - grows a beard, cuts their hair much shorter, etc. - but since there are no witnesses I don't see the killer doing this. However, coming in late or calling in sick that Monday and their behavior and/or demeanor changes from their normal should be a red flag. I don't see this as someone who was from outside the area, but a member of the community.

 

[Mistermagoo]

I hope the community is being aware of who might have not shown up for work on Monday or was late. LE usually states to be aware of anyone who changes their appearance - grows a beard, cuts their hair much shorter, etc. - but since there are no witnesses I don't see the killer doing this. However, coming in late or calling in sick that Monday and their behavior and/or demeanor changes from their normal. I don't see this as someone who was from outside the area, but a member of the community.

At this point, if Jayme is alive and local, the perp is going to work everyday ala Ariel Castro

 

[bellyup]

Exactly. If there was any communication I believe LE would have come across it by now.

Sadly, I don’t.
If for whatever reason the person was forbidden to talk to Jayme, it may have been more than 60 days ago. I know Fitzgerald said they are now looking more at 60 days back (I think they need to go ever further).

I also know these kids talk a lot on apps put out by companies that are resistant to cooperating with LE. So much so, that they make it difficult for even themselves to retrieve any information. Snapchat being at the top of that list. LE can only get chat text history (not how most use the app) and dates and times of sent snaps or snaps sent within 30 days that haven’t been opened. They can not retrieve the content of opened snaps bc they are destroyed near immediately.

 

[bellyup]

At this point, if Jayme is alive and local, the perp is going to work everyday ala Ariel Castro

Or is locked away in a remote cabin, possibly doing illegal things for money and living off grid entirely.

 

[bobsburgers]

It is safe to say, this case is extremely cold, and authorities have no idea where to go at this point. It is a shame.

 

[Rosiebones]

Am I remembering right - did the brother of Denise say in an interview he had ideas of who might have done this? One of the sisters said she had different ideas from time to time but said it like she was just more confused (not quoting here - just trying to remember) but the brother had a more angry face when he indicated he had an idea and acted more certain.

I remember as you remember. I went back and I cannot find the interview to link it, but it is on here somewhere. The brother came across to me as someone who had a more firm idea of who might have done this but did not have the proof and therefore couldn't explain further.