OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#37

[Canaille]

Do you think the charges against either of the older grandmothers might stem from activities on one of the social media sites where the case has been a hot topic, like trying to divert or mislead by planting false rumors?

That would be nice, considering how some have tried so hard to pin this case on some of the young Rhoden cousins. I used to get so mad whenever I read some of it.

 

[Betty P]

Just saw this:
New Pike County, Ohio murder podcast | True Crime Podcast

Really good podcast. Will Garbe has been doing some quality reporting on the Pike County murders for WHIO and Dayton Daily News. They've broken some really good stories in the last 2 years. Look forward to reading more of his reporting.
Interesting story about making friends in Pike County and going to a deer camp there.

 

[kaaky]

Hearing loss caused by not wearing ear protection firing weapons maybe? That happened to my grandson. He had accommodations at school for his disability.
I kept waiting for something crazy to happen watching the arraignment. Maybe hearing loss explains it.[/QU

It appears W3d has a very small patch of "missing hair" along his left, front hairline... near his temple area. I can't see an actual scar. As rsd said, it might just be an individual hairline "anomaly."
But, as someone who has been hard of hearing all my life, I can attest to the learning difficulties in early childhood. Not only that, but other children are often very cruel about any disability another child has. The stories that go along with being a child who is "different" are endless and, in fact, don't end in childhood. A adult who must continually ask for clarification or for the spoken word to be repeated is fair game to many others. Being hard of hearing is one disability that others often don't see as a disability and they will ridicule the person who constantly requires repetition. Impatience quickly turns to rejection (believe me.)
I spent the first years of my life being constantly told,
"You don't listen! You could do well in school but you won't listen!"
I never got a report card all through grade school that didn't yell,
"Doesn't LISTEN!!!" ... "Won't listen! Is distracted constantly."
"Doesn't follow directions!" (what directions?)
When you are hard of hearing you can appear to be a person who is mentally challenged... you don't hear and you often misinterpret what is said but, you've said "what?" enough times to aggravate others already (or they find it funny) ...so you just give up and let them go on talking without you.
I have a rule: "ask 'what did you say?' two times and that's all the 'whats' you get."
Otherwise, you become the object of ridicule. It's a very isolating disability socially and in every aspect of one's life.
Proper semantics and PC, aside... it is a huge disability.
"Whoever" W3d is, his behavior will definitely be affected in many ways if he has been hard of hearing all his life.

I can totally relate to this. I too was born with a hearing disability and it is hard to learn in school when teachers just assume you are not listening and doesn't work with you. Mine hearing loss is 100% genetic. You are laughed at a lot too when you have a issue of hearing something.... been there. It affects your self esteem more than anything. My hearing is so bad but I'm not legally deaf.... hearing aids don't help me a lot. You do isolate yourself from friends and especially a big get together. It is a very real disability. BUT I'm not going to go killing anyone because of it... Everyone handles their disabilities differently I guess. JMO

 

[Betty P]

That would be nice, considering how some have tried so hard to pin this case on some of the young Rhoden cousins. I used to get so mad whenever I read some of it.

Yes, the rumors spread about Rhoden family members on social media have been atrocious. However, the charges seem to be focused more on lying to LE and the Grand Jury.

 

[Betty P]

Thank you all for your gracious welcome and kind words!
I have been lurking W/S for a while now. What impresses me about W/S is the unique knowledge, insight, perspective and sometimes humor each member brings. Most impressive is the respect shown to other members, particularly when opinions differ.
I have an accounting/finance background but I haven't practiced in many years. And no, I am not offended by a good CPA joke (or attorney), I might just have a few of my own......

Glad you like it here Puzzles8. We have a pretty good group, with a lot of lurkers and posters returning to the thread since the arrests. As Will Garbe said in the podcast linked above, it's a very complicated and horrible case, very frustrating to discuss and analyze. So a little humor and small talk helps to break up the tension. Wandering off topic can help us learn some new things, too. Will look forward to any of your input on matters related to accounting. Fair warning, my QuickBooks skills are a bit rusty and amateur. With your background, you should watch the Netflix show "Ozark" if you haven't seen it already. We've discussed it here a few times in relation to this case and the special universe of Pike County.

 

[OsoTejano]

Really good podcast. Will Garbe has been doing some quality reporting on the Pike County murders for WHIO and Dayton Daily News. They've broken some really good stories in the last 2 years. Look forward to reading more of his reporting.
Interesting story about making friends in Pike County and going to a deer camp there.

That deer camp sounds like what a lot of hunters did when I was growing up on the night got before deer hunting season started. Typically it would be a bunch of guys drinking whiskey around a bonfire and BSing around until it was legal to shoot at deer. It would sound like a firefight with all of the shooting going on before the break of dawn. Occasionally someone would accidentally get shot or bag a “slow deer” aka cow or sheep... I always kept my distance for obvious reasons. Besides, they usually drove the deer over my way

 

[pepper 34]

Maybe from firing 32+ shots in an enclosed space?

Remember there was a man who told LE he heard a series of firearm shots early on the morning of the murders and first day of the turkey shoot, too... (I forget what time he said but it would have still been dark out.) I thought he said it the shots came from somewhere down by the lower end of UHR along closer to Dana's end of the street. Maybe at this point the silencer(s) was no longer working properly. Wasn't a "part" of a silencer found by LE? It might be, out of pure necessity, that the killers who entered Dana's house had no choice but to shoot the victims without any muffling devices on their firearms. Is it possible to do permanent damage to one's ear drums firing inside such close quarters? Interesting theory, Raisin... it probably wouldn't have been 32 shots, but there were 11 shots fired in Dana's home.
(I've looked and I can find any articles on the subject but I know we discussed it here at length on WS and we had news articles for reference at the time.)

 

[Gracie55]

That deer camp sounds like what a lot of hunters did when I was growing up on the night got before deer hunting season started. Typically it would be a bunch of guys drinking whiskey around a bonfire and BSing around until it was legal to shoot at deer. It would sound like a firefight with all of the shooting going on before the break of dawn. Occasionally someone would accidentally get shot or bag a “slow deer” aka cow or sheep... I always kept my distance for obvious reasons. Besides, they usually drove the deer over my way

Sounds like opening day out here in redneck country. Sometimes they get started with the festivities early. Slow deer get hit out here too. Rumor is they don't taste like regular venison.

 

[pepper 34]

I have a theory. Kenneth's murder still bothers me. I can't see a vehicle with all 4 killers going to his place and all probably still with a lot of visible blood on them. Kenneth's dog, Brownie, might know the killers but how many of them can he know and like really well... and wouldn't 4 people showing up cause him to be nervous and bark or growl even if he did know them? I know many think Jake killed Hanna but I'm wondering if he could do that. Anyway, what if he dropped the 3 others off at Dana's house and went to Kenneth's on his own. Maybe he had made good friends with Brownie over time... maybe even used a "clicker" device to train Brownie to expect a treat when he heard that sound. Or... maybe he actually called Kenneth with some ruse... car not working right, whatever. He got himself into Kenneth's house one way or another and we know how that ended. Meanwhile, the other 3 are killing Dana, Chris Jr and Hanna... and even take the time to clean themselves up... remove protective clothing and bag it... wash off any visible blood, if stopped by LE, they won't be bloody on the drive home. Jake drives back from Kenneth's place and removes his protective clothing, bags it... checks for and cleans off any visible blood. They pull up any plastic placed down in the car and bag it, too. All clothing and plastic goes into the spare tire area of the vehicle. They head to the highway and they're home very quickly.. already clean and with bags of clothing to bury, burn or otherwise destroy.
I can't help but think heading away from their own house at the end of a chaotic night just to kill one more person as a unit of 4 doesn't make good sense to me. It would take too much time when it's time to have this all over and done with. It's taking a terrible chance just when most people would want to be escaping after having killed 7 people. I think, somehow, Kenneth's murder was done "inside" at the same time as the other murders by one of them or, by someone else entirely who had no other "job" to do but kill Kenneth.
(... or Jake doesn't go into Dana's house at all upon his return but just picks the other 3 up... bags his clothes after leaving Kenneth's house. I just don't think he could do it.)

 

[OsoTejano]

I have a theory. Kenneth's murder still bothers me. I can't see a vehicle with all 4 killers going to his place and all probably still with a lot of visible blood on them. Kenneth's dog, Brownie, might know the killers but how many of them can he know and like really well... and wouldn't 4 people showing up cause him to be nervous and bark or growl even if he did know them? I know many think Jake killed Hanna but I'm wondering if he could do that. Anyway, what if he dropped the 3 others off at Dana's house and went to Kenneth's on his own. Maybe he had made good friends with Brownie over time... maybe even used a "clicker" device to train Brownie to expect a treat when he heard that sound. Or... maybe he actually called Kenneth with some ruse... car not working right, whatever. He got himself into Kenneth's house one way or another and we know how that ended. Meanwhile, the other 3 are killing Dana, Chris Jr and Hanna... and even take the time to clean themselves up... remove protective clothing and bag it... wash off any visible blood, if stopped by LE, they won't be bloody on the drive home. Jake drives back from Kenneth's place and removes his protective clothing, bags it... checks for and cleans off any visible blood. They pull up any plastic placed down in the car and bag it, too. All clothing and plastic goes into the spare tire area of the vehicle. They head to the highway and they're home very quickly.. already clean and with bags of clothing to bury, burn or otherwise destroy.
I can't help but think heading away from their own house at the end of a chaotic night just to kill one more person as a unit of 4 doesn't make good sense to me. It would take too much time when it's time to have this all over and done with. It's taking a terrible chance just when most people would want to be escaping after having killed 7 people. I think, somehow, Kenneth's murder was done "inside" at the same time as the other murders by one of them or, by someone else entirely who had no other "job" to do but kill Kenneth.
(... or Jake doesn't go into Dana's house at all upon his return but just picks the other 3 up... bags his clothes after leaving Kenneth's house. I just don't think he could do it.)

They may have headed down to Left Fork, killed KR, and went on to the Flying W, which is like down Left Fork and then a right on to Camp Creek for a little ways. KR’s place and the Flying W are pretty close to each other

 

[pepper 34]

Ok, that makes sense. I did have some trouble imagining Jake being able to accomplish Kenneth's murder on his own. Whoever actually killed Kenneth, I believe did go to his place on days when they knew Kenneth'd be at work and conditioned Brownie to think a visit from that person was "wonderful treat time."
FW might have an objection to being that closely involved in their plan but she might have gone for it. I also have so much trouble "seeing" Jake go into Dana's house and being there for the killing of Hanna but maybe I'm giving him too much credit.

 

[rsd1200]

Just saw this:
New Pike County, Ohio murder podcast | True Crime Podcast

This is worth a listen! Thanks, Dudly!

 

[rsd1200]

I wouldn’t think so. Nothing illegal about lying or trolling on SM. However, lying to a grand jury like they were alleged to have done is a crime.

I'm wondering if they provided false alibis. That would be impeding an investigation, lying to LE, lying to a Grand Jury, then RN was charged with falsifying/forging documents to boot.

 

[Dudly]

Really good podcast. Will Garbe has been doing some quality reporting on the Pike County murders for WHIO and Dayton Daily News. They've broken some really good stories in the last 2 years. Look forward to reading more of his reporting.
Interesting story about making friends in Pike County and going to a deer camp there.

I've said before I thought WHIO was doing a good job keeping up with this case. Mike Campbell from WHIO was there often early on.
Wiil Garbe seems to have been trusted fairly well by locals...

 

[Gracie55]

Have they got any idea how they got to the crime scene? How would they have avoided getting blood all over? Did they shower before leaving? Cover up the vehicle seats in plastic? Destroy the car or torch it?

 

[Dudly]

That deer camp sounds like what a lot of hunters did when I was growing up on the night got before deer hunting season started. Typically it would be a bunch of guys drinking whiskey around a bonfire and BSing around until it was legal to shoot at deer. It would sound like a firefight with all of the shooting going on before the break of dawn. Occasionally someone would accidentally get shot or bag a “slow deer” aka cow or sheep... I always kept my distance for obvious reasons. Besides, they usually drove the deer over my way

I know a guy that was at one of these "camps". He said everyone but him got up early and was out hunting. He got some coffee and was sitting in a lawn chair checking out his gun and loading it. He could see quite a ways out into a valley and no deer were moving so he was in no hurry. About that time a deer walks into the camp. He shoots the deer while sitting in his chair. He and the people that run the camp get it field dressed and hung up. Everyone else came back for lunch empty handed. They wouldn't believe him when he said that was his deer.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Have they got any idea how they got to the crime scene? How would they have avoided getting blood all over? Did they shower before leaving? Cover up the vehicle seats in plastic? Destroy the car or torch it?

I've always pondered this exact question. They were all murdered up close, hence, blood spatter, etc. would be all over them. How could they have NOT left their own fingerprints on walls, etc during/after? With what did they each travel in that didn't have blood/particles all over in it? One would need to "lean on something" to remove their clothing, smear something of themselves somewhere. Add in being on an adrenaline high, making mistakes increases. I've read possible scenarios of others but I still can't wrap my head around it. Heck, I get a hangnail and find blood in places for days sometimes!
My other comment re: KR and "IF" there was money "laying at his feet" wondered if someone had called ahead wanting to borrow money from him. BUT, it would've had to have been one of the W's and if those families were on the "outs" would he still have obliged such a request?

 

[Gracie55]

I've always pondered this exact question. They were all murdered up close, hence, blood spatter, etc. would be all over them. How could they have NOT left their own fingerprints on walls, etc during/after? With what did they each travel in that didn't have blood/particles all over in it? One would need to "lean on something" to remove their clothing, smear something of themselves somewhere. Add in being on an adrenaline high, making mistakes increases. I've read possible scenarios of others but I still can't wrap my head around it. Heck, I get a hangnail and find blood in places for days sometimes!
My other comment re: KR and "IF" there was money "laying at his feet" wondered if someone had called ahead wanting to borrow money from him. BUT, it would've had to have been one of the W's and if those families were on the "outs" would he still have obliged such a request?

IMO one of the Ws went by KR's trailer to buy some pot, apparently a decent amount since there was much money.

To throw him off they paid him a bunch of small bills.

While he was distracted counting money the gun slipped out and he was shot.

 

[Elley Mae]

Remember there was a man who told LE he heard a series of firearm shots early on the morning of the murders and first day of the turkey shoot, too... (I forget what time he said but it would have still been dark out.) I thought he said it the shots came from somewhere down by the lower end of UHR along closer to Dana's end of the street. Maybe at this point the silencer(s) was no longer working properly. Wasn't a "part" of a silencer found by LE? It might be, out of pure necessity, that the killers who entered Dana's house had no choice but to shoot the victims without any muffling devices on their firearms. Is it possible to do permanent damage to one's ear drums firing inside such close quarters? Interesting theory, Raisin... it probably wouldn't have been 32 shots, but there were 11 shots fired in Dana's home.
(I've looked and I can find any articles on the subject but I know we discussed it here at length on WS and we had news articles for reference at the time.)

Yes, I remember.

Iirc he said it was like 4:30. Something on the line of it being odd at the moment because it wasn’t light enough to see. Makes sense about the silencer (homemade) coming apart.

 

[Dudly]

I've always pondered this exact question. They were all murdered up close, hence, blood spatter, etc. would be all over them. How could they have NOT left their own fingerprints on walls, etc during/after? With what did they each travel in that didn't have blood/particles all over in it? One would need to "lean on something" to remove their clothing, smear something of themselves somewhere. Add in being on an adrenaline high, making mistakes increases. I've read possible scenarios of others but I still can't wrap my head around it. Heck, I get a hangnail and find blood in places for days sometimes!
My other comment re: KR and "IF" there was money "laying at his feet" wondered if someone had called ahead wanting to borrow money from him. BUT, it would've had to have been one of the W's and if those families were on the "outs" would he still have obliged such a request?

In another case in Ohio the shooter wore a rain suit and gloves. They could have walked from CRsr's to FR's place and piled in the bed of a pickup to go to DR's house. A painter's suit would have worked, too. Maybe that is why they were looking in the bed of JM's truck that morning. Confiscating it for illegal plates would have given them time to check for blood...