AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28

[deugirtni]

I know you're late to the party and trying to catch up, but this call log has been dissected ad nauseum for about two months now. James did not answer the door for police because he was already dead. Sheriff, in the DM interview, said both James and Denise were killed instantly by the perp. So he could not have been alive to answer the door for police.

It just seems odd that on a dispatch log, police would make assumptions rather than recording simple facts. These logs are used as evidence in court, so one would presume they have to be accurate. Other possibilities exist as to who answered the door. They may be unlikely, but it just seems weird to state that, when it isn't actually known. Why mention answering the door at all? Could have just said 'door kicked in', and 'victim is deceased right inside the doorway'. And yes, thank you, impossible to catch up on all the conversation. (impossible to even keep up with it ongoing!)

 

[deugirtni]

I see your point, but we don't know if it was kicked in or shot up. If this was a planned abduction, I can see how the perps would cover all their bases and number one would be to leave no prints no trace. You don't have to be a mental giant to be able to do this. But, if not planned, I just don't even want to guess. Maybe all trace evidence could be accounted for. We just don't know.

May I ask why we don't know if the door was kicked in or shot up, when the dispatch logs states it was kicked in? Wouldn't police have noticed if it had been shot up and that would have also appeared in their notes?
"317 REQUESTED ERT BE PAGED OUT. ADVISED THE DOOR HAS BEEN KICKED IN.

 

[deugirtni]

I know you're late to the party and trying to catch up, but this call log has been dissected ad nauseum for about two months now. James did not answer the door for police because he was already dead. Sheriff, in the DM interview, said both James and Denise were killed instantly by the perp. So he could not have been alive to answer the door for police.

Just curious why police would request the emergency response team to be paged out if the victims were already dead?
"317 REQUESTED ERT BE PAGED OUT. ADVISED THE DOOR HAS BEEN KICKED IN. ADVISED THAT THE MALE WHO IS DOWN HAD ANSWERED THE DOOR."

 

[chili367]

It just seems odd that on a dispatch log, police would make assumptions rather than recording simple facts. These logs are used as evidence in court, so one would presume they have to be accurate. Other possibilities exist as to who answered the door. They may be unlikely, but it just seems weird to state that, when it isn't actually known. Why mention answering the door at all? Could have just said 'door kicked in', and 'victim is deceased right inside the doorway'. And yes, thank you, impossible to catch up on all the conversation. (impossible to even keep up with it ongoing!)

The dispatch log just has to be an accurate record of what happened between the officers in the field and dispatch. It can be amended to correct items but cannot be edited. It's not a log of the actual investigation.

 

[Via Marple]

My theory, Jamey could have answered the door, then screamed. Dad and mom came running while mom was calling 911, then both were shot. The perp would not even have to enter the house. Oh how I wish Jamey will be home before Christmas.

I like a different theory.

My problem with that is not how Jayme would be the one answering the door. We won't know for sure.

I just don't see how Jayme could continue to be heard screaming for another minute, after 911 call had gone through, if she was captured right from the start at the door? What could be happening

 

[KLM6]

It just seems odd that on a dispatch log, police would make assumptions rather than recording simple facts. These logs are used as evidence in court, so one would presume they have to be accurate. Other possibilities exist as to who answered the door. They may be unlikely, but it just seems weird to state that when it isn't actually known. Why mention answering the door at all? Could have just said 'door kicked in', and 'victim is deceased right inside the doorway'. And yes, thank you, impossible to catch up on all the conversation. (impossible to even keep up with it ongoing!)

I agree with you about "speculation" being radioed in. I understand parts of why they dispatched and/or recorded things the way they did, but others I dont. Ive asked police officers I know about that log and they each had a totally different perception of it than most discussions here. But I quit bringing their opinions here because it doesnt always fit with popular belief, and I refuse to argue about it anymore.

 

[Ragnarok]

But there would have to be some sort of shoe print from the kick, or was something else used?
How is it possible that they have nothing?ouldering

I wonder in what percentage of the double homicide + abduction cases they have NO forensic evidence. This is so weird.

I've wondered if we are taking kicked in too literally? I can see an individual(s) with some bulk and/or muscle shouldering their way through the door.

 

[kspoon45]

I agree with you about "speculation" being radioed in. I understand parts of why they dispatched and/or recorded things the way they did, but others I dont. Ive asked police officers I know about that log and they each had a totally different perception of it than most discussions here. But I quit bringing their opinions here because it doesnt always fit with popular belief, and I refuse to argue about it anymore.

I'm curious to hear their interpretations!

 

[Rubiconbob]

But there would have to be some sort of shoe print from the kick, or was something else used?
How is it possible that they have nothing?

I wonder in what percentage of the double homicide + abduction cases they have NO forensic evidence. This is so weird.

This is one of the stunning parts of murders .. was perp wearing double shoe covers ..
Was there 2 at door.. one with door ram ... one few feet back with gun .. I think y’all may be correct in shot one outside... one shot from entryway and then gone.. I don’t think he ever had any intention of walking inside house... and I don’t think he wiped his footprints..

Doubt he used door ram.. expensive and leave a trail... cops : Fire have access to easily.. you’d think they’d say based on door imprint if this was used..

Has Fitzgerald ever confirmed 5 ft in house means 5 ft in doorway ?? Or 5 ft in front door ..5 ft also in side door..?? Also ??

https://www.amazon.com/Zak-Tool-ZT75-Door-Ram/dp/B008YNG068

 

[stephlovescheese]

Jayme Closs' family, community hold out hope 2 months after teen's disappearance
So glad to see this on Fox.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I like a different theory.

My problem with that is not how Jayme would be the one answering the door. We won't know for sure.

I just don't see how Jayme could continue to be heard screaming for another minute, after 911 call had gone through, if she was captured right from the start at the door? What could be happening

Don’t think anyone truly knows... pray it’s just not jayme yelling for parents..
Could be two perps yelling at each other messing things up .. could be perps yelling at jayme to get outside and get in car..

Would be interesting if Fitzgerald would atleast say no of people on 911 tape heard , and if they were all Closs Family members, be way to give info to public and maybe rattle perps ...

 

[CuriousMaine]

I answered the question as to whether it was possible to load a gun without touching the ammo, and that answer is, in some cases, yes. And in those cases, there would be no fingerprints to recover.

How/what? You still have to take the ammo out of the factory package, etc. I have several loaders but there is no way to load my ammo without coming into contact with it unless I wear gloves, etc.

IMO, if there is no discernible prints they were either degraded when fired and/or intentionally wiped clean/used gloves, etc.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

I’ve been trying to read through all of these threads,
but maybe
James Closs got into an altercation with someone maybe it was a road rage incident with a stranger and that person followed him home, knocked on the door, ended up killing James and Denise and grabbing Jayme while leaving.
If it was a road rage incident, Jayme could be alive in another state being held by that person.

 

[deugirtni]

Don’t think anyone truly knows... pray it’s just not jayme yelling for parents..
Could be two perps yelling at each other messing things up .. could be perps yelling at jayme to get outside and get in car..

Would be interesting if Fitzgerald would atleast say no of people on 911 tape heard , and if they were all Closs Family members, be way to give info to public and maybe rattle perps ...

Whatever was heard during the call gave the dispatcher the impression it was a suicide attempt, rather than a family being in imminent danger of being murdered. Any thoughts on what would have given that impression?

 

[deugirtni]

Hard to imagine that if one owns guns, and they have someone kicking down the door or even knocking on the door at 1am on a Sunday night - why not take the gun with you to the door to protect yourself/your family, just in case?

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Whatever was heard during the call gave the dispatcher the impression it was a suicide attempt, rather than a family being in imminent danger of being murdered. Any thoughts on what would have given that impression?

Too many mess ups and mistakes have been made by 911 operators for me to take their observations too serious.

 

[CuriousMaine]

Whatever was heard during the call gave the dispatcher the impression it was a suicide attempt, rather than a family being in imminent danger of being murdered. Any thoughts on what would have given that impression?

I thought the same thing initially. We've been over this part of the log many times too. The consensus here is the officer was first to introduce the possibility of suicide once on the scene.

Interpretation: At 1:03 Officer # 321 advised dispatcher of possible suicide attempt.

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

 

[No Stone Unturned]

I live in Wisconsin. People just aren’t as vigilant here. Including myself and I’m a regular on Websleuths. Case in point, we ordered pizza last night. Delivery man came at 8 pm. Apparently, I didn’t close the front door all the way after he left. I walked by it at least ten times before going to bed and didn’t notice. None of my family members noticed (or cared to close and lock it). We woke up this morning and it was still ajar. People in my town regularly leave their attached garage doors open for weeks at time. Anyone can come in off the street and burglarize items, cars, and access the interior of homes.

 

[deugirtni]

I live in Wisconsin. People just aren’t as vigilant here. Including myself and I’m a regular on Websleuths. Case in point, we ordered pizza last night. Delivery man came at 8 pm. Apparently, I didn’t close the front door all the way after he left. I walked by it at least ten times before going to bed and didn’t notice. None of my family members noticed (or cared to close and lock it). We woke up this morning and it was still ajar. People in my town regularly leave their attached garage doors open for weeks at time. Anyone can come in off the street and burglarize items, cars, and access the interior of homes.

Yes I get that, and I agree.. people may become or just be 'soft' in that regard, until something happens to affect them and they change their behavior. But in this case, someone was apparently kicking in the door, was at the door, and it was 1am on a Sunday night. That's the stuff of suspense films/horror flicks, and if one HAS guns, why wouldn't you grab one in a situation like that? It's not like it's 1pm in the afternoon.

 

[deugirtni]

I thought the same thing initially. We've been over this part of the log many times too. The consensus here is the officer was first to introduce the possibility of suicide once on the scene.

Interpretation: At 1:03 Officer # 321 advised dispatcher of possible suicide attempt.

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

Ok.. so how was the call sent out to police by the dispatcher then? Just as a 'hangup'? But yet police arrived in what.... 4 minutes? What would have been the urgency for just a hangup?