CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #14 *ARREST*

[Mom24]

Just out of curiosity, can luminol detect blood if an area has been painted over?

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I do remember that. The thing is though, PF isn't a farmer. I don't even consider him to be a serious rancher. My impression was that he tinkered in this and that - rodeos, dog-training, etc. I can't see how he made a living at it.
MOO

I commented about this in earlier threads too. Sounds to me like he didn’t need much income bc he likely had free lodging with mom, so these may have been more like a handful of part-time gigs he dabbled in.

 

[Peppermint Patty]

Didn’t someone mention way earlier in this case that farmers tend to have access to incinerators, though I hate to think he might have done that.

And regarding her manner of death, it does sound like it left more evidence than CW’s crime but I’m kind of surprised he didn’t “copy” that since it had just happened in the local news.

I've also read the comments about farmers having incinerators. I don't know of any and know a lot of farmers. However, commercial operations would most likely have something like this. My feeling is that he did something very similar to the others... or CW... she could have been strangled and then disposed of in a ditch or body of water... I don't think he is very well connected like some might think. I tend to believe he was the black sheep of the family if you will. The youngest, taking care of mom, anger issues. Probably not too awfully close to his siblings/other family... other than his sister.. maybe..

 

[mickey2942]

I have entertained this too as I mentioned earlier.

Seems like most law abiding people would report it to police if someone told them they just killed their fiancé. So I have been trying to think of reasons whoever was solicited didn’t report it earlier?

For example...

A. The person WASN’T a law abiding citizen.
B. The person was bought off/paid to help clean up.
C. PF lied and said it was an accident or self-defense.
D. He threatened to kill them too if they spoke up.

Other thoughts?

Family.

 

[Mom24]

Only reason I’m not sure if it’s painted over is because you would smell fresh paint. Maybe he painted her entire house, and they had to take a good amount of time to find spots of interest?

They do have paints that don't smell. We recently redid a room in that paint and amazingly it had no odor.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

You know how real estate agents bake a pan or two of cookies before an open house to make it smell homey and inviting?

Is it possible that someone other than KB baked the pan of cinnamon rolls in order to cover the smell of paint or other chemicals after she was incapacitated? (Or to mask any other unfortunate smells that may have occurred. Ack.)

Real estate agents often use the pre-made tubes you find at the store so they can just throw them on the pan and pop them in. Our crazee cowboy or one of his partners-in-crime could easily done this with the poppin fresh or easy-bake kind of rolls. Maybe whoever was with PF did it while they were waiting around for him to wrap up whatever he was doing in KB’s home?

moo!

I don't think this is how it happened, but I like how you think! This is how all possible scenarios get analyzed!

Did the neighbor say he didn't stay overnight? I remember the neighbor saying she thought he lived there? Can someone clarify?

Here’s where one said she thought he lived there: Neighbors described fiancé of missing Colorado woman as 'quiet' and 'good' | Daily Mail Online

Here’s one where a neighbor just talks about coming and going for the baby:
Neighbor: Kelsey Berreth is ‘a very kind-hearted person’

I'm pretty sure those were two different neighbors. Saying apparently conflicting things.

They have PF's red truck. Who knows what LE may have found in/on it.

Agree. We tend to assume that a perp would do things strategically to avoid detection, but so many times it seems they just don't even think about things like phone pings or cadaver detection dogs, etc.

In the case near me that I'm following, the alleged perp didn't have a car so he walked or cycled to the victim's home, killed her there, then put her body in her own car and drove it to his home (then returned the car to her home). A day later he tried and failed to set his own house on fire with himself and her body inside. It hasn't gotten much media coverage so we probably won't know until trial whether he thought at all about the evidence trail of transporting a body in a vehicle, etc. She had been reported missing for less than a day and, as an acquaintance of hers, he had been (I believe) questioned but not detained. She was found when -- duh -- the fire department responded to the smoke as he attempted to burn his house down...

 

[Mom24]

I commented about this in earlier threads too. Sounds to me like he didn’t need much income bc he likely had free lodging with mom, so these may have been more like a handful of part-time gigs he dabbled in.

I don't think he did much either, but like you I think he was already provided for so he didn't really need to work.

 

[Tranquileyes]

I wonder if they missed it because it was somehow high up? That seems ridiculous...except they had the fire department bring a ladder.

Totally possible. It will be interesting to find out when the facts become known. I recall someone saying they were carrying out drywall?? I remember when Annie Le went missing and they found her in the wall at her job (she was killed by a coworker) obviously they didn't find KB there, but they were definitely looking hard at all options.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

They do have paints that don't smell. We recently redid a room in that paint and amazingly it had no odor.

Also, upstairs windows could’ve been left partially open for several days in theory since he had roughly 10-11 days before KB’s brother showed up.

 

[margarita25]

Just out of curiosity, can luminol detect blood if an area has been painted over?

(Interesting question, looking it up, will post if I find anything.)

ETA:

Experimental Detection of Blood Under Painted Surfaces

“Vandenberg and van Oorschot 1 reported on finding blood under paint using the Polilight™ PL500 at about 415nm. In their experiments it appears that blood was deposited directly on wood, plaster, brick, and metal and then painted over with various colors of light colored water based paint and white acrylic paint. Blood was visible under three coats of paint. From the photographs it appeared that the blood absorbed the ultraviolet light giving it a dark appearance. The authors also reported that blood could be detected under wallpaper using the Polilight™“

—-

Let’s see what else might be out there, looking for more articles.

 

[LAHOLLA]

First, I am not aware of comments by the Frazee family disparaging KB.

But I think digging into details of their life are inappropriate. Like posting details about SF’s property or her RN license, commenting about her disability, etc. That is trashy behavior and reveals nothing about the case. Sleuth the heck out of PF, but leave the rest of them out of it.

In at least some of those cases, people were trying to determine if SF was able to have custody of a toddler bc it was our understanding she was disabled, etc. No one was attacking her.

 

[Jazzy5980]

Did you guys follow the Mollie Tibbett’s case? Remember the red herring pig farm? I seem to remember people on that case claiming there were ponds/swamps or something like that kept on some agricultural properties where farmers sometimes disposed of dead animals...gosh why can’t I remember the term? I just remember because people were theorizing that MT’s body could be impossible to find in such a dumping ground or that it could’ve been fed to the pigs.

I grew up in the country but didn’t know much about those references. But does anyone here give any merit to those ideas related to how farmers dispose of animal bodies?

Many references to lagoons related to large confined hog operations in MT’s case. Nightmare scenario — hundreds of Hogs live on metal slats and waste drops down and travels via pipe to lagoon. Folks speculated MT’s body had been dropped into a lagoon, however, such facilities are not designed to dispose of dead animals.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Totally possible. It will be interesting to find out when the facts become known. I recall someone saying they were carrying out drywall?? I remember when Annie Le went missing and they found her in the wall at her job (she was killed by a coworker) obviously they didn't find KB there, but they were definitely looking hard at all options.

BBM
That completely blew my mind!

 

[Tranquileyes]

I think it was cleaned up, and possibly painted over as well.

He had plenty of time in which to do this, and those text messages only bought him more time.

I think it’s possible that he returned to the house multiple times, in an effort to conceal what happened there.

Agreed. He had plennttyyy of time to catch up and hide things. Fortunately, he still missed a spot or a few and now he's sitting in jail.

However, those multiple returns must have been noticed by a neighbor. Especially remembered in hindsight after it was announced she was missing. Can't wait to see the evidence they have on him. I hope he has no chance of getting away with this!

 

[v0x]

Well if had accomplice/s maybe they'll roll. I'll bet a quilt block he did.

I see your quilt block, and raise you four granny squares! Lol. I’ve never heard that expression before.

 

[Mom24]

Totally possible. It will be interesting to find out when the facts become known. I recall someone saying they were carrying out drywall?? I remember when Annie Le went missing and they found her in the wall at her job (she was killed by a coworker) obviously they didn't find KB there, but they were definitely looking hard at all options.

I think we were supposing it was drywall because they were heard banging on the walls by the media standing outside and the evidence bags they were carrying out looked flat like drywall. I'm not sure it's been stated by LE that they took out drywall. Not saying it isn't, just making sure that point is made that so far it's just an opinion. Some others thought it might be cabinet doors.

 

[Tranquileyes]

BBM
That completely blew my mind!

Yeah that was a really sad case. Happened right before she was to get married.

 

[Mom24]

(Interesting question, looking it up, will post if I find anything.)

ETA:

Experimental Detection of Blood Under Painted Surfaces

“Vandenberg and van Oorschot 1 reported on finding blood under paint using the Polilight™ PL500 at about 415nm. In their experiments it appears that blood was deposited directly on wood, plaster, brick, and metal and then painted over with various colors of light colored water based paint and white acrylic paint. Blood was visible under three coats of paint. From the photographs it appeared that the blood absorbed the ultraviolet light giving it a dark appearance. The authors also reported that blood could be detected under wallpaper using the Polilight™“

—-

Let’s see what else might be out there..

Wow! He may have thought if he painted over it no one could detect it.

 

[btfly547]

Google: Patrick Frazee Team Roping and you might find an FB page that might show how he met someone to 'help'... just sleuthing and I hope it doesn't violate the TOS or has been covered before.

Umm. Interesting group if it's the one I found that you're talking about.

 

[Jazzy5980]

I do think they may have used the word bog. You’re right. Anyone think that’s common place? Or was that just overactive imaginations?

Waste pits = lagoons
Lagoons of Pig Waste Are Overflowing After Florence. Yes, That’s as Nasty as It Sounds.