CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

[Inthedetails]

On count #3: The attempted robbery - I assume PF was trying to make it look like KB's home was randomly robbed and during the robbery she was murdered?

Seems to me PF was planning her murder for quite a while before putting his plans into action. He wanted to keep his hands "clean" and tried to hire others to do the dirty work.

MOO

But....if she were killed during a home robbery, wouldn't her body be in the home?

Very strange....we're still missing some key info, imo.

jmo

 

[gitana1]

My understanding is that @gitana1 responded to this issue and cleared up that the custody case was not initiated before KB’s disappearance, nor by KB herself.... has that understanding changed? If it has, then I do agree that adds to motive...

Yes. I've found zero indication that the case was filed prior to her death and every indication that it is a standard 72 business hour temporary custody hearing in relation to a CPS/DHS protective custody case.

Also, people had been repeatedly searching court dockets since this case broke looking for any cases that Patrick was involved in, or Kelsey, and found nothing prior to the date of the arrest when the baby was taken into protective custody.

 

[dalsglen]

Poor baby K, dad didn't just kill mum out of fear of losing her or in a flight if rage, he bloody planned it, not once or twice but three times.

That baby will forever be able to google her dads evilness.

My heart breaks for the berreth family who will not only have to carry that knowledge, but have to share with baby k in time.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Idk what PF wanted. I’ve not found supporting documentation he wanted to be saddled with a kid.

If not he could have just as easily had them both killed if he didn't want to be saddled with a kid, but he didn't.

ETA - Not meaning it would ever be easy to kill one's child

 

[Love Never Fails]

Like you, I'm not seeing this murder based on custody. I don't know what it is, but I just don't see him doing it for love of a child.

Maybe for his Mother’s love of the child.

I see it this way.... he met KB online, had a few hookups (as he always did), she got pregnant, he asked her to move to CO and helped her move. But she didn’t realize he is a Mamas boy. His mom owns everything. He is a playboy who takes care of the cattle and horses and the ranch. He loves rodeo. Loves playing the field. But Mom pays all the bills. KB realized this and bought her own townhouse as she decided he would never leave his easy life with mom. She may have decided it was time to move on with her life. PF couldn’t allow her to take the baby away from his mom. He didn’t care about pleasing KB or growing up and being a man. He only had to look good for moms sake.
Custody. That’s how I see it now.

 

[Charlot123]

No problem!

Solicitation does not require the person solicited agree to the crime. For example: John asks Bob to kill his wife. John explains how he wants this done, and even pulls out a gun for Bob to do it. Bob says he will think about it, but goes straight to the police. In this case, Bob is not culpable, because he never agreed to or intended to commit the murder. However, John obviously did and took the step (gun, money) to have it done; it wasn't just random babble about wanting his wife dead, over beers with a friend.

Conspiracy requires two or more people AGREEING to commit a crime, and then taking at least one step towards the commission of it. Both people are culpable here. John asks Bob to kill his wife. Bob agrees. John gives Bob a gun and some cash as a down payment. He draws a map of the house and they agree for Bob to show up at midnight on Tuesday to commit the crime. Bob drives to the house at 11:45 on the night in question, but a neighbor sees something shady and intervenes or calls the cops. Or, the murder does in fact happen. Either way, killing or not, the conspiracy has been completed upon the agreement and step towards it.

Thank you, @riolove77

Situation nr 3.

John asks Bob to kill his wife, explains how he wants it done, maybe pays a deposit.

Bob has no interest in killing John's wife but is scared because he knows that several of John's close relatives are in LE. Moreover, Bob has a criminal past and is vulnerable. Bob, in fact, wants to go to police and report on John, but never does it because of the said reasons, but he makes no steps towards killing John's wife, either.
Eventually, John's wife is killed by someone else.

Is Bob viewed as culpable in this situation, and what would be the charge?

 

[nwmouse]

Really. It seems confirmed to September. But, what was he thinking & for how long before soliciting? Omg, he must have hated her. Why could he just not tell her so & walk away.

Maybe he didn't want to go to court to fight for custody and didn't want to pay child support.

Either because he's a control freak/bully or he couldn't afford it. Maybe he wanted to teach her a "lesson".

When I watch true crime docs and Forensic Files I'm always boggled at the people who think its easier to murder than get a divorce -- and they actually think they can get AWAY with killing. Divorce is rough but its the only decent, moral thing to do. So many MORE lives are ruined through murder than divorce.
smh

MOO

 

[dalsglen]

I am thinking a little piece of brain tissue. One cell of brain tissue would indicate that her head had been cracked open and her brain injured and her chances of being alive were be next to nothing. It would require alot large amount of blood to determine that she had lot enough to be dead. Plus a little blood could mean a previous injury that was rather meaningless. I am going for brain tissue. It could be microscopically identified.

Anyone have an image available of what were the large evidence packages they took from her home? Floor boards maybe?

Little amount of blood is I agree neither here or there, brain matter makes me feel sick.

 

[Jupiter05]

Perhaps the person they are trying to protect is in Idaho, or even more sticky it may be one of his family members. I think someone mentioned he has family members in LE, one of them may have found some evidence and is helping.

LE did state that it is a MULTIPLE state investigation. Besides Idaho and Colorado, would Utah be the other state?

 

[PommyMommy]

Maybe for his Mother’s love of the child.

I see it this way.... he met KB online, had a few hookups (as he always did), she got pregnant, he asked her to move to CO and helped her move. But she didn’t realize he is a Mamas boy. His mom owns everything. He is a playboy who takes care of the cattle and horses and the ranch. He loves rodeo. Loves playing the field. But MOm pays all the bills. KB realized this and bought her own townhouse as she decided he would never leave his easy life with mom. She may have decided it was time to move on with her life. PF couldn’t allow her to take the baby away from his mom. He didn’t care about pleasing KB or growing up and being a man. He only had to look good for moms sake.
Custody. That’s how I see it now.

Baby K was born in Oct 2017 so Kelsey wouldn't have been pregnant before moving to Colorado in 2016. I think you've described PF perfectly.
MOO

 

[dalsglen]

Thank you, @riolove77

Situation nr 3.

John asks Bob to kill his wife, explains how he wants it done, maybe pays a deposit.

Bob has no interest in killing John's wife but is scared because he knows that several of John's close relatives are in LE. Moreover, Bob has a criminal past and is vulnerable. Bob, in fact, wants to go to police and report on John, but never does it because of the said reasons, but he makes no steps towards killing John's wife, either.
Eventually, John's wife is killed by someone else.

Is Bob viewed as culpable in this situation, and what would be the charge?

I would think so, I'd bloody hope so. He kept quiet

 

[Trudie]

Haha! It's okay, I'm just sitting in bed on my laptop, I don't mind.

If they had little involvement, they're likely cooperating. If it really just was a text like, "Hey I got rid of KB, thank God that B**** is gone", then they're not culpable anyway.

I'm leaning towards, if anything, an accessory after the fact charge or two possibly coming. Maybe even an accessory before, though that's more serious. I will eat my hair if there is another principle in the murder.

I think one solicited party transported the phone. PF possibly had drafted texts to be sent from ID.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

It really boggles the mind. If someone physically or helped perpetrate this why are they free as a bird in the sky is my question?
Makes no sense to me. The level of involvement must be under that.

Maybe someone/s helped after the fact. With clean up,hiding evidence, sending text.
Maybe theytkept KBs phone after the 25th, to send more fake text to throw off investigation. Not knowing a false ping only goes so far before it gets tracked.
Then LE found it's location, got a search warrant to get it,and got the weakest link too.
LE Did a good job playing derp,derp,derp about the false ping, giving whoever kept it a false sense of it not being the Hot Potato it is.

 

[nwmouse]

But....if she were killed during a home robbery, wouldn't her body be in the home?

Very strange....we're still missing some key info, imo.

jmo

Well that's the thing. You'd think that if PF tried to make it look like a robbery he'd have left her body there, but something obviously went wrong and they had to get rid of the body.

Unless the DA wants to make sure every scenario is covered because they DON'T have a body and one of the people PF solicited to murder KB came forward and said that the original plan was to make the murder look like a routine robbery that went wrong.

This awful tragedy could have been prevented if PF was a normal, reasonable human being.
Instead he has ruined the lives of his daughter, KB's family and loved ones, as well as his own family (some of them) who are shocked at what he did. The ripple effect is horrific.

moo

 

[Charlot123]

Consumptive evidence?

What do you think it is? I’m interested to hear everyone’s guess.

I’m torn between a droplet of fluid/stain found on a floor or wall OR a cloth or towel used in clean up. I’m leaning more towards a most minute stain (saliva, vomit, blood splatter) that was missed during a “potential” wipe down.

Maybe some minute DNA left on the saw?

 

[Mercedes]

Thank you, @riolove77

Situation nr 3.

John asks Bob to kill his wife, explains how he wants it done, maybe pays a deposit.

Bob has no interest in killing John's wife but is scared because he knows that several of John's close relatives are in LE. Moreover, Bob has a criminal past and is vulnerable. Bob, in fact, wants to go to police and report on John, but never does it because of the said reasons, but he makes no steps towards killing John's wife, either.
Eventually, John's wife is killed by someone else.

Is Bob viewed as culpable in this situation, and what would be the charge?

In your hypothetical, how would LE know Bob was solicited?

 

[PommyMommy]

Anyone have an image available of what were the large evidence packages they took from her home? Floor boards maybe?

Little amount of blood is I agree neither here or there, brain matter makes me feel sick.

CBI, other agencies search Kelsey Berreth’s home a 2nd time

Carol McKinley on Twitter

James Dougherty on Twitter

 

[Marli61]

Idk what PF wanted. I’ve not found supporting documentation he wanted to be saddled with a kid.

I've not found any "supporting documentation" either, but I believe custody IS what caused all of this. What I have read is accounts that assert PF took Baby K along to some of his jobs. There was a photo of him holding her at a rodeo. Some fathers absolutely love their children fiercely. Maybe fiercely enough to kill to gain sole custody. Some do not consider it being "saddled". It also appears Mama F was very involved in Baby K's care. Possibly the thought of the baby being taken hundreds of miles from them was too much for him to bear. I am in no way justifying what he did btw. Just explaining why I think he did what he did. JMO

 

[riolove77]

Thank you, @riolove77

Situation nr 3.

John asks Bob to kill his wife, explains how he wants it done, maybe pays a deposit.

Bob has no interest in killing John's wife but is scared because he knows that several of John's close relatives are in LE. Moreover, Bob has a criminal past and is vulnerable. Bob, in fact, wants to go to police and report on John, but never does it because of the said reasons, but he makes no steps towards killing John's wife, either.
Eventually, John's wife is killed by someone else.

Is Bob viewed as culpable in this situation, and what would be the charge?

Excellent question. Typically, no.

Except for some exceptions under federal law, one is generally not required to report knowledge of a crime before it takes place. The only exception to this would be if you were aiding an abetting, in which case that would be the charge. For that to happen, though, the person would need to know of the plan, know it's illegal, and encourage the plan with the intention that the crime take place. So in your hypo, Bob would not have done any of these things.

It seems so sad to say it, because in that situation, Bob could potentially have prevented the murder. But he has no legal duty to do so.

 

[claudianunes]

I believe he was arrested because one of the people he asked to kill KB came forward. Maybe, that someone got the news that she went missing and started adding things up, maybe even told someone something like "this dude was talking crazy, saying stuff about getting this girl killed and now she just vanished, isn't that super creepy?" and that person might have contacted LE with that info. Just my opinion.