OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

[RAISINISBACK]

Raised. This is one time I strongly disagree. With every bit of respect for you my friend and your well written opinion. ( you know if I didn’t admire your work, I just would have responded, HOGWASH!!!). It’s rather unique and perhaps fun to disagree with you.

That's ok Charlie we will just agree to disagree then. You know I respect your opinion. Your posts are great!!!

 

[Betty P]

Dudley, none of us know what might happen, but I agree 100%. Often, the DP isn’t even a real possibility, it is a threat, from the DA, to avoid trials, IMO. (Because I don’t have a link handy). The statistics are readily available.
Most people do not want to die. Idk why anyone feels they have a right to life after taking a life, it seems they do, though. Moo.
Maybe all 4 will go to trial, idk.
The R & G’s are going to have input, as well. IMO
An able defense has the capability to make Mother Teresa look “bad”. The DA might advise the R family that trials will be most unkind & unflattering.
Toss in the “undercurrent of drugs”, not for one moment do I believe the R’s want their dirty family laundry exposed again.
Previously, I linked a lot of info about DP Cases.
As I read the data, IMO, the primary purpose of a DP attorney is to avoid trial & the possibility of death by dealing down. Moo. I’m guessing it’s fairly easy to “influence” certain people by only suggesting death.


JMO, IMO, MOO

Agree and I think the pressure is on to get the W's to take a plea deal. Prosecutors haven't submitted anything yet on the 40+ defense motions, including the motion to move the trials to another county (a step towards organizing the trials for DP standards). Judge Deering said yesterday that the prosecution advised him they would have responses to the motions by the end of January. I'm guessing they're putting a lot of pressure on the defense attorneys right now.

Defense also said they were notified they'll be receiving another large amount of discovery info from prosecutors next week, too. More pressure..... That second batch will likely have some very compelling evidence against the W's.

 

[Betty P]

Prosecutors will sometimes threaten to file a death penalty request if your client does not plead guilty to the murder charge and accept a LWOP or lesser sentence within a limited time-frame, and will further insist that there will be no plea negotiation after the death penalty request is filed. All too often, this threat is made shortly after the murder charge is filed, and the time-frame given is too short for you to adequately investigate the case and competently advise your client. The 2003 ABA Guidelines for the Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases, Guideline 10.7 - Investigation, and its commentary, and Guideline 10.9.1(B) - The Duty to Seek an Agreed-Upon Disposition, can give you ammunition for seeking adequate time to investigate and to give your client the sort of detailed advice required by the Guidelines and to build the relationship of trust necessary for your client to be able to consider your advice. These guidelines have been recognized as a guide to determining what reasonable performance for IAC purposes is,https://www.in.gov/ipdc/files/defending-a-capital-case - final 06-13.pdf

The focus of your case will be saving your client's life. "Winning" a death penalty case most often means obtaining a LWOP or lesser sentence through plea negotiations. If the case must go to trial, the crucial focus must be on the penalty phase, at which the life or death decision is made.



(This is regarding Indiana, not OH. But adds insight)

Must be similar to Ohio. Recently one of the defense attorneys (can't recall who) talked of having "won" all of his previous DP cases. None were exonerated, winning meant he got them all LWOP.

 

[Puzzles8]

Almost. It’s a very old name that reminds me of an old European word. I haven’t had this kind of trouble ever trying to remember something I so important. I try to recall it driving, bathing and just before I fall asleep.

Darn it anyway. My old survey friend died or I would ask him. He didn’t get past 5 th grade but knew everything or exactly how to find an answer. I’m going nuts over it and today it might be a short trip.

Plat of Survey?

 

[Trudie]

Often, the DA comes out screaming “DP, DP, this is a DP case, if there’s a DP case, it’s this one”, IMO, to scare the crap out of the defendant. Think CW. Everyone was geared up for a trial. Less than 90 days later, he was basically sucking his thumb. Big win for the DA because he got a conviction & the defense won, they saved CW’s life.
Win Win! Moo, of course.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Agree and I think the pressure is on to get the W's to take a plea deal. Prosecutors haven't submitted anything yet on the 40+ defense motions, including the motion to move the trials to another county (a step towards organizing the trials for DP standards). Judge Deering said yesterday that the prosecution advised him they would have responses to the motions by the end of January. I'm guessing they're putting a lot of pressure on the defense attorneys right now.

Defense also said they were notified they'll be receiving another large amount of discovery info from prosecutors next week, too. More pressure..... That second batch will likely have some very compelling evidence against the W's.

Oh to be a fly in the wall when AW’s attorneys meet with her to reveal next weeks batch of info against the Waggies. I’d be content to just view a silent video.

WHAT MIGHT BE CONTAINED IN THE SECOND BATCH Of evidence/DISCOVERY Junk sends over???


VIDEO

AUDIO

CELL RECORDS

COMPUTER LOGS

WARRANTS/Affidavits/receipts/Results

Video of Walmart shopping

Photos of silencers

Crime scene photos

Other

Statements

Tox reports

Health reports

Children’s info from the morning they were found

Maps


Information regarding the final pings of each Rhoden/Gilley cell phones


My opinion and parts of this post is beneath me, tacky but I said it anyway.

All my opinion and while I disagree with most if my own post, it’s the absolute truth of my thoughts at this very moment. I apologize to anyone it may offend.

 

[Gracie55]

member: 234750"]If you know any attorneys, ask how they feel about being asked to deliver messages! I think it infuriates them.
Plus, it’s unprofessional.
Moo, this case is early bird gets the worm. It appears to me AW & JW are going to be first to cut a deal. Based on nothing....jmo.
Think, AW & attorney want DP off the table. IANAL. But,
I would absolutely refuse to take it off the table because indications are (to me) she’s not ready to die & will plead guilty. Case closed. She doesn’t even have to tell on anyone, only plead to the charges against her.
Moo

All indications are that while it may be a largely circumstantial case, law enforcement clearly understood all evidence had to be near perfect to secure a conviction. That’s why it took 2.6 years to investigate the murders. A salute to those who devoted time they were not pad for, the time spent with families when thinking about the case, the time each LE Officer spent during the first week of November, 2018, when they all were waiting for the results to return from the lab. Each knew they had solved the Rhoden murders that week, and each had to call up the last bit of patience they had to hear results.

Ohio can be very proud of their LE. For 26 years residents waited for arrests. Waited for justice and it was served.

I wish we could have seen, And perhaps we will the moment LE arrested each Waggie. The surprised terror on the WAGGIES faces must have been a sight.[/QUOTE]
It wiped the Smiley grin right off their smug mugs.

 

[Trudie]

I THINK we can reasonably assume each of the 4 has discussed an alternative solution to the DP, by now. Wouldn’t y’all? Me, if going to prison for life, I’d prefer to not have the added stress of knowing I was headed for the electric chair or a lethal injection. I don’t even get the flu shot due to an intense dislike of needles.
Jmo

 

[rsd1200]

There were relatives statements early in about the tactics used to get legal custody. Sadly it worked and was the precursor to the Rhoden murders.

But George 4 plotting this? There’s not enough known to agree with that right now.

I do have an opinion that Fred was much more involved in the plot. Maybe LE didn’t find the evidence to prove my opinion. I just believe it has her hand prints all over it. And I think she believed as one of the wealthiest people in Pike County, her $$$$$ would be enough to get away with it.

I don’t know. I rarely feel this strongly about anything but I can clearly see her style in all of it.

Not G4 plotting this, but G4 being a very gung-ho, and active participant based on what the prosecution said, re; him being so vocal about revenge. I see him and G3 as kinda like a real life version of Dr. Evil and Mini-Me. That view could change tomorrow, or within the next hour, who knows, but I've just never seen JW as being all that bright.

Edit; BBM
Could you elaborate, and share any links, please?

 

[Trudie]

All indications are that while it may be a largely circumstantial case, law enforcement clearly understood all evidence had to be near perfect to secure a conviction. That’s why it took 2.6 years to investigate the murders. A salute to those who devoted time they were not pad for, the time spent with families when thinking about the case, the time each LE Officer spent during the first week of November, 2018, when they all were waiting for the results to return from the lab. Each knew they had solved the Rhoden murders that week, and each had to call up the last bit of patience they had to hear results.

Ohio can be very proud of their LE. For 26 years residents waited for arrests. Waited for justice and it was served.

I wish we could have seen, And perhaps we will the moment LE arrested each Waggie. The surprised terror on the WAGGIES faces must have been a sight.

It wiped the Smiley grin right off their smug mugs.[/QUOTE]

A big salute to the AG/DA for not going to the GJ prematurely, also.

 

[Trudie]

Not G4 plotting this, but G4 being a very gung-ho, and active participant based on what the prosecution said, re; him being so vocal about revenge. I see him and G3 as kinda like a real life version of Dr. Evil and Mini-Me. That view could change tomorrow, or within the next hour, who knows, but I've just never seen JW as being all that bright.

Edit; BBM
Could you elaborate, and share any links, please?

Yes.....why would one be so vocal if not highly involved?
I don’t know how bright he is but I’m guessing he will never work for NASA.
Moo

 

[Trudie]

All of you with an attorney friend, have him/her read one indictment. Thoroughly read it. See what stands out to him.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, he was among the first responders to the crime scenes. Per his affidavits above, he was diverted by BCI on the way there. They held a meeting and told him they were in charge and gave him instructions from there. He was told to attend 2 crime scenes, his deputy a third and another county coroner (Adams County, IIRC) handled the fourth scene.

Court docs reveal initial coroner response to Pike Co. slayings

Interesting stuff to read as those affidavits and depositions more details than we had seen before.

I thought it was another deputy that was flagged down. My head is a bit foggy this week so I may be misunderstanding. BCI didn't arrive until just after KR was found. They made record time, I do believe, but still, that's a pretty good ways.

 

[Trudie]

The first attorney to work a deal is the first to move on to his next case. After chalking up another win.

 

[Betty P]

Oh to be a fly in the wall when AW’s attorneys meet with her to reveal next weeks batch of info against the Waggies. I’d be content to just view a silent video.

Yeah, I don't envy her defense team. They probably can't back out easily, without earning the ire of our current AG, soon to be governor.

 

[Betty P]

I thought it was another deputy that was flagged down. My head is a bit foggy this week so I may be misunderstanding. BCI didn't arrive until just after KR was found. They made record time, I do believe, but still, that's a pretty good ways.

A Pike County deputy was flagged down by JM after he went into DR's home. That was very early. I'll have to check on BCI arrival. Most of them coming from Columbus, etc. probably didn't arrive til later, but I think they had a local agent who was there earlier than the rest, but after Pike County got there. It was probably close to the time KR was found because Kessler says that in his meeting with BCI, they instructed him to divide up the 4 crime scenes. Kessler's affidavit is kind of vague on this and I don't recall if he was quizzed on that part of the timeline in his deposition.

Will have to go back to the Timeline. Dang, that thing needs to be updated and I keep putting it off.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

You could be right, then again, I look at him through a different lens,

1. He and JW were probably each other's besties until HMR came along. Then she dumped baby brother, broke his heart, and a new fella was going to be in S's life. How dare she?! Let's get your kid back, and while we're at it, just wipe the whole lot of them out!

2. In my view, he's the most violent, from what's been said at court. He was most vocal about revenge.

3. Very true. He mentioned in a FB post, not long before arrested, that his son was his whole world. (loosely quoted)

4. Look at who we are talking about here. GW4. Are we sure that he hasn't played some dirty pool to get custody of that child after they split? I don't know TB, and her mental fitness, but I do know that G4 is accused of executing eight people, at least in part, to assist his bro in obtaining custody of his child, forge custody papers to get said child, and move both children far away from their maternal families. He's not exactly the picture of mental fitness himself. I've often wondered just how he was awarded custody, and what went on surrounding that.

However, that lens may change as the trials go on. He may be a big wimp when it all shakes out. It's pretty wimpy not to face your enemies, and to shoot mothers as they slept beside their babies.

I think the idea to kill Hanna came from Jake.
The idea to wipe them all out came from Billy.
The idea to forge the custody documents came from Angie.
George was just along for the ride.

Generally the most vocal of a group is the one who has the most to prove. Think of a gang. The truly mean ones don't talk about killing someone, they just do it. The weakest or whimpiest (if that is even a word) are the most vocal egging on the tougher ones to do the killing.

I see Billy as being the meanest out of this group. In addition I see Billy and George as being close and Angie and Jake as being close.

George strikes me as being very insecure so therefore has to "talk" the most violent to show his dad that he is tough. He also tries to please his dad whenever he can.

So the way I see it is:

Billy is the tough guy, he doesn't talk about it, he just does it. Billy will not break and he will not take a plea deal.

George follows Billy and encourages him and tries to prove he is just like him by talking the talk. George's allegiance will shift to his attorneys who will then become his father figures. They will advise him to take a plea deal and George will do so to please them and get a chance of getting out early to be with his son.

Angie is the smart one. She tries to figure everything out and Billy listens to her. She is the schemer. Angie will not break and she will protect Jake at all costs.

Jake is the manipulator. He is the one who wants something and manipulates everyone around him to get what he wants. He is the one who makes up lies, and plays the victim to get everyone to go along with what he wants. In this crime Jake is the center who sucked his tough guy dad and follower brother and scheming mother and gullible grandmothers into this whole thing. Jake will continue to lie and try to manipulate his way out of this.

JMo

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM. What is the reason George had full custody? Isn't his grandmother charged with forging custody documents?

There is no way the State is going to offer a plea deal to any Wagner which allows them to have custody of any child. They lost that privilege when they decided to annihilate eight people over child custody. JMO

George had full custody of his son before the murders. The R's were not killed to get custody of George's son, they were killed to get custody of Jake's daughter.

We do not know why George had full custody of his son, but we do know when his ex wife filed to change that custody after he was arrested, he filed a motion to make her take a mental exam. That is in the court records in his divorce.

 

[Trudie]

Not G4 plotting this, but G4 being a very gung-ho, and active participant based on what the prosecution said, re; him being so vocal about revenge. I see him and G3 as kinda like a real life version of Dr. Evil and Mini-Me. That view could change tomorrow, or within the next hour, who knows, but I've just never seen JW as being all that bright.

Edit; BBM
Could you elaborate, and share any links, please?

They sure have one heck of a family dilemma going on. Whew
IMO, this will be a game of Follow the Leader.
After one pleads, the remaining 3 follow suit.
Monkey see, monkey do.
I see them unable to think or function independently, only as a unit. Jmo

 

[RAISINISBACK]

TOS. Oh you two! I turn my back and you kids are at it again? Charlie and Raisin...disagree politely

Charlie started it. LOL