CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #34 *ARREST*

[ajaylee]

I'm struggling trying to understand why PF thought it was so important to buy time. He had to know that both KB's work and her family would start asking questions when she didn't return. At most, he only bought himself a week or ten days.

I'm guessing, of course, but it seems to me that his whole defense at this point is 1) he never left the area over Thanksgiving, so he couldn't have taken the phone to Idaho and 2) he is certain they will never find the body.

I simply cannot believe KK would have taken the body and the phone with her. She could have dropped the body off somewhere along the way, figuring winter would take care of the rest, but I just can't see her doing it.

 

[Gardener1850]

no body murder prosecution:

Sarah Stern murder not the first 'no-body' homicide case to go to trial

(did not find a thread on this case on websleuths via a search, though there was one post about the search for her body that came up)

Sarah's current thread: Still Missing - NJ - Sarah Stern, 19, Neptune City, 2 Dec 2016 *Arrests* #2

 

[Dave F.]

More goes into it than just the income calculation. There's a points system. First, there's an income qualification that is dependent on household size that allots a number of points, depending on where the income for that family sizes falls in relation to the poverty level. Next the defendant gets points for how close to their income the cost of their essential living expenses is. Then there's points given for a range of assets that could be liquidated without causing harm to housing or employment. Then there are also points for the severity of the crime. If the points add up to a certain threshold, you qualify for a public defender.

The questionaire you are describing asks for descriptions of automobiles, motorhomes, and excess real estate. PF had none. The site also asks for:
"Liquid Assets Include cash on hand or in accounts, stocks bonds, certificates of deposit, equity, and personal property or investments which could readily be converted into cash without jeopardizing the applicant’s ability to maintain home and employment."
It seems to me like you are explaining the unstated mechanics that go into the courts determination of eligibility. I thought everyone was pretty much in agreement that he didn't seem to have much of those "liquid assets". Cattle on the hoof are not a liquid asset. Once he sold them the cash received would certainly have counted, and the points system you describe would apply, but it appears the sale is well beyond the the court's approval of his application.
Colorado Judicial Branch - Self Help - Apply for a Public Defender

 

[Dave F.]

I wasn't quite sure of the thresholds, so I found it. Basically - he can't make more than $36,000 (assuming he was set as a family of 2), but he could have substantial assets because he would own a vehicle and tools as a farrier, livestock and associated equipment, all of which wouldn't be counted because the sale of them would affect his employment. So, as long as he's not holding a lot of cash/investment assets, since it is a high severity crime, he would qualify. Although, living in Colorado on $36,000 or less explains why he lives with his mother.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/Courts/Supreme_Court/Directives/04-04 Amended 2018 Jul 1 WEB.pdf

I like this, but I'm compelled to remind you that his work truck was a 2008 Toyota, and his shoeing truck was a 1990's vintage Toyota compact. At the time of application, his daughter had been taken from him and delivered to CB. He was a family of one. I don't find any blank on the app for tools to be listed as an asset. IMO

 

[susiQ]

I'm struggling trying to understand why PF thought it was so important to buy time. He had to know that both KB's work and her family would start asking questions when she didn't return. At most, he only bought himself a week or ten days.

I'm guessing, of course, but it seems to me that his whole defense at this point is 1) he never left the area over Thanksgiving, so he couldn't have taken the phone to Idaho and 2) he is certain they will never find the body.

I simply cannot believe KK would have taken the body and the phone with her. She could have dropped the body off somewhere along the way, figuring winter would take care of the rest, but I just can't see her doing it.

I feel PF and KKL truly felt they could pull this off despite the fact that they really didn't have the smarts to do actually do it. I also think that PF will have no problem letting his attorney go after KKL to shift focus onto her, if only to get her back for opening her big mouth and attempting to minimize her own role and implicate only him.

They bought themselves time with the texts, as we know, and I'm thinking by leaving the cars behind, believed they could use that to peddle the "idea" that KB left with someone else and therefore "someone else" is to blame for her disappearance. It boggles my mind that they actually believed they'd get away with it, but they DID believe this or they would not have gone ahead. KKL was fool enough to believe if they got rid of KB, they would live happily ever after.

I doubt KKL took the body to dispose of. PF had plenty of time to take care of that. What really disturbs me at this point is KKL "vanishing" into thin air. I cannot understand how she could make a conscious decision to aid PF in this crime and not be under arrest, regardless of any info/evidence she provided to LE to assist in HIS arrest. She KNEW months in advance that he wanted KB dead, which leads me to believe she wanted her dead too for her own selfish reasons, regardless of the tale she is spinning now. I fully believe PF planned it for the TG weekend and she chose to go there and participate. What a legacy she has left her children. JMO.

 

[Trudie]

More goes into it than just the income calculation. There's a points system. First, there's an income qualification that is dependent on household size that allots a number of points, depending on where the income for that family sizes falls in relation to the poverty level. Next the defendant gets points for how close to their income the cost of their essential living expenses is. Then there's points given for a range of assets that could be liquidated without causing harm to housing or employment. Then there are also points for the severity of the crime. If the points add up to a certain threshold, you qualify for a public defender.

And it is a good thing for EVERYONE to have representation & a fair trial so there’s no margin for error. Moo

 

[Trudie]

I feel PF and KKL truly felt they could pull this off despite the fact that they really didn't have the smarts to do actually do it. I also think that PF will have no problem letting his attorney go after KKL to shift focus onto her, if only to get her back for opening her big mouth and attempting to minimize her own role and implicate only him.

They bought themselves time with the texts, as we know, and I'm thinking by leaving the cars behind, believed they could use that to peddle the "idea" that KB left with someone else and therefore "someone else" is to blame for her disappearance. It boggles my mind that they actually believed they'd get away with it, but they DID believe this or they would not have gone ahead. KKL was fool enough to believe if they got rid of KB, they would live happily ever after.

I doubt KKL took the body to dispose of. PF had plenty of time to take care of that. What really disturbs me at this point is KKL "vanishing" into thin air. I cannot understand how she could make a conscious decision to aid PF in this crime and not be under arrest, regardless of any info/evidence she provided to LE to assist in HIS arrest. She KNEW months in advance that he wanted KB dead, which leads me to believe she wanted her dead too for her own selfish reasons, regardless of the tale she is spinning now. I fully believe PF planned it for the TG weekend and she chose to go there and participate. What a legacy she has left her children. JMO.

Ita

Woman + cowboy + woman = murder

Reportedly, KKL has had “feelings” for P for many years.
With this in mind, think how devastated she was to learn he had a baby on the way or a baby, depending when he filled her in.

 

[susiQ]

Ita

Woman + cowboy + woman = murder

Reportedly, KKL has had “feelings” for P for many years.
With this in mind, think how devastated she was to learn he had a baby on the way or a baby, depending when he filled her in.

Yes indeed, this thought has crossed my mind many times. I have no doubt she was a WILLING accomplice despite her revelations to her BFF. She HAD a choice and she chose what suited her agenda, to get KB out of PF's life. She was jealous of KB and I believe hated her for "stealing her man." MOO

 

[ajaylee]

One thing I did note: KK got divorced in 2016 and PF and KB met online in 2016. I wonder at what point KK learned that PF was seeing KB - and that KB was pregnant/moving to Colorado - I can't recall which came first.

If KK thought that she and PF might finally get together, just when she's gotten a divorce and is free, she can't have been happy to hear about not only another woman, but another woman who was having his child.

I keep coming back to KB and the money. KK and PF owned horses together at one time. I wonder if PF tried to get KB to 'invest' money in his ranching business?

 

[Seattle1]

@Dave F. said: ↑
The threshold for qualifying for Public Defender representation in the 4th District of Colorado is a gross income, after all deductions, of $16,147 on Line 1 of Form 104 of the 2016 Colorado State Income Tax return. It doesn't have anything to do with current assets. IMO [bbm]

I disagree with O/P specific advise above that qualification is based on defendants 2016 Colorado tax return, form 104, and nothing to do with defendants current assets.

To get to an income of $16k after deductions- which a cattle farmer would have alot of, with some extras added in. If your gross income is low enough that you can get to 16k even with extensive deductions you don't have alot of "assets" that you have accumulated that you can sell to bankroll lawyers. JMO

More goes into it than just the income calculation. There's a points system. First, there's an income qualification that is dependent on household size that allots a number of points, depending on where the income for that family sizes falls in relation to the poverty level. Next the defendant gets points for how close to their income the cost of their essential living expenses is. Then there's points given for a range of assets that could be liquidated without causing harm to housing or employment. Then there are also points for the severity of the crime. If the points add up to a certain threshold, you qualify for a public defender.

I wasn't quite sure of the thresholds, so I found it. Basically - he can't make more than $36,000 (assuming he was set as a family of 2), but he could have substantial assets because he would own a vehicle and tools as a farrier, livestock and associated equipment, all of which wouldn't be counted because the sale of them would affect his employment. So, as long as he's not holding a lot of cash/investment assets, since it is a high severity crime, he would qualify. Although, living in Colorado on $36,000 or less explains why he lives with his mother.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/Courts/Supreme_Court/Directives/04-04 Amended 2018 Jul 1 WEB.pdf

Thank you @WildcatRunner for clarifying that Colorado courts do in fact assign point values to a defendant's income, expenses, assets, and severity of the charges to determine whether a defendant gets a public defender, and also providing the link to the information.

(If the total number of points add up to at least 150, the defendant gets a public defender. Otherwise, the defendant will not get a public defender).

 

[Trudie]

One thing I did note: KK got divorced in 2016 and PF and KB met online in 2016. I wonder at what point KK learned that PF was seeing KB - and that KB was pregnant/moving to Colorado - I can't recall which came first.

If KK thought that she and PF might finally get together, just when she's gotten a divorce and is free, she can't have been happy to hear about not only another woman, but another woman who was having his child.

I keep coming back to KB and the money. KK and PF owned horses together at one time. I wonder if PF tried to get KB to 'invest' money in his ranching business?

It’s really common for event/sporting horses to be co-owned. They can be pricey. Some shows or rodeos insist the horse be “owned”, not borrowed. If KKL ropes, they could both use the same horse at the same event, if both listed on the AQHA registration.
I think they might have bred (horses), too. Maybe using “equine embryo transplant”, if they have a top notch mare.
They can get a lot of foals each year, from one mare. If they kept the foals, he may have trained them for roping, selling as 3-4yo. Roping horses fetch big money. Moo
I’ve found some horse info but I’m not allowed to post it. I checked.

 

[mickey2942]

KK is a nurse, PF's Mother is a nurse...just wondering about the dynamics there. Would like to know how PF met KK, and obviously their relationship continued.

Maybe Baby K was not planned, and PF was "forced" into more of a relationship than he wanted with KB. That can create a lot of anger.

 

[Seattle1]

I like this, but I'm compelled to remind you that his work truck was a 2008 Toyota, and his shoeing truck was a 1990's vintage Toyota compact. At the time of application, his daughter had been taken from him and delivered to CB. He was a family of one. I don't find any blank on the app for tools to be listed as an asset. IMO

Tools (i.e., personal property) would be listed on the application under "other property."

Please reference JDF 208, R10/2015 --Application for Public Defender, Court-Appointed Counsel, or Guardian Ad Litem

https://www.courts.state.co.us/Forms/PDF/JDF 208 Application for Court-Appointed Counsel or GAL - R10 2015.pdf

 

[Dave F.]

Tools (i.e., personal property) would be listed on the application under "other property."

Please reference JDF 208, R10/2015 --Application for Public Defender, Court-Appointed Counsel, or Guardian Ad Litem

https://www.courts.state.co.us/Form...Court-Appointed Counsel or GAL - R10 2015.pdf

Well, he musta filled it out okay, as the judge granted his Public Defender. IMO

 

[mickey2942]

Attorneys for Frazee file motion to have civil lawsuit for Kelsey Berreth's death dropped

PF is seeking to have the civil case by KB's parents dismissed.

This article also answered my question about PF and KL, nurse in Idaho, apparently they had been an item in their teens, first love. I can see that if she was free to date, the same time KB became pregnant, that may have frustrated PF, if he wanted a relationship with KL.

Agreed, a "normal" person just breaks up with his GF. He wouldn't concoct some bizarro murder scenario.

 

[Seattle1]

Well, he musta filled it out okay, as the judge granted his Public Defender. IMO

I've no doubt that nobody here has questioned PF's understanding of the true application, under penalty of perjury, or his qualifying for public defender. Seems to me clarification was deemed necessary for other reasons. MOO

 

[tmar]

One thing I did note: KK got divorced in 2016 and PF and KB met online in 2016. I wonder at what point KK learned that PF was seeing KB - and that KB was pregnant/moving to Colorado - I can't recall which came first.

If KK thought that she and PF might finally get together, just when she's gotten a divorce and is free, she can't have been happy to hear about not only another woman, but another woman who was having his child.

I keep coming back to KB and the money. KK and PF owned horses together at one time. I wonder if PF tried to get KB to 'invest' money in his ranching business?

As KK got divorced in 2016, there would be many months beforehand, where she had problems/was unhappy.
If KK and PF were friends, he would have known this.
So PF meeting KB on line in 2016, then a baby resulting, must have KK realizing that she, KK, is not so important to PF.
Why does she then help him, in this murder?
Because PF produced another one of his many 'stories', which KK believed.
MOO.

 

[Steelslady]

As KK got divorced in 2016, there would be many months beforehand, where she had problems/was unhappy.
If KK and PF were friends, he would have known this.
So PF meeting KB on line in 2016, then a baby resulting, must have KK realizing that she, KK, is not so important to PF.
Why does she then help him, in this murder?
Because PF produced another one of his many 'stories', which KK believed.
MOO.

I don't think that KK was ever completely out of the picture, either, when Kelsey came along. I bet she was good and angry that not only was PF seeing her, he helped move Kelsey to be closer to him, then had a baby with her. Meanwhile, the anger was probably building- she is probably the kind of person that doesn't blame the jerk for hurting her, but the other woman (in her eyes, not saying Kelsey was the other woman- she probably didn't know anything about KK before she got involved with PF!). I see many women do this- they blame the other woman, and fight like hell to win their man back, going to extremes. Most don't murder or help with the murder, but they do other things such as slam them to anyone who will listen, make up rumors and bold faced lies, etc.

I wonder when poor Kelsey found out about KK- she had to have known eventually, right? Or did PF live a double life, so to speak, and Kelsey had no clue at all about KK?

 

[Trudie]

I'm struggling trying to understand why PF thought it was so important to buy time. He had to know that both KB's work and her family would start asking questions when she didn't return. At most, he only bought himself a week or ten days.

I'm guessing, of course, but it seems to me that his whole defense at this point is 1) he never left the area over Thanksgiving, so he couldn't have taken the phone to Idaho and 2) he is certain they will never find the body.

I simply cannot believe KK would have taken the body and the phone with her. She could have dropped the body off somewhere along the way, figuring winter would take care of the rest, but I just can't see her doing it.

Oh, I can. She must’ve despised KB. After all, KB had P’s baby. Reportedly, KKL has loved P for years.

 

[Trudie]

I don't think that KK was ever completely out of the picture, either, when Kelsey came along. I bet she was good and angry that not only was PF seeing her, he helped move Kelsey to be closer to him, then had a baby with her. Meanwhile, the anger was probably building- she is probably the kind of person that doesn't blame the jerk for hurting her, but the other woman (in her eyes, not saying Kelsey was the other woman- she probably didn't know anything about KK before she got involved with PF!). I see many women do this- they blame the other woman, and fight like hell to win their man back, going to extremes. Most don't murder or help with the murder, but they do other things such as slam them to anyone who will listen, make up rumors and bold faced lies, etc.

I wonder when poor Kelsey found out about KK- she had to have known eventually, right? Or did PF live a double life, so to speak, and Kelsey had no clue at all about KK?

IMO, KB knew all about KKL. IMO, KKL is the type woman that is BOLD & would have no problem introducing herself to KB & sharing her “love story” with her, hoping to run her out of Dodge. MOO

Physically, she strikes me as a pretty strong farm woman.
Bet she carries a bale in each hand. Moo