Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into a taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019

[CoverMeCagney]

I'm curious as to why the police have been repeatedly searching the Oak Road pond. It's not on her way to pubs, shops or the Welly, and it's pretty much in a dark, empty dead end.

It is definitely a dead end, there's absolutely no reason for Libby to have gone down there unless she was planning to jump in the pond or river. It'd have been really dark and she had no torch, plus she possibly had going out shoes on so it wouldn't be easy terrain. I'm wondering if someone has reported seeing a vehicle drive down there at a strange time.

 

[Sera]

"KEEP CLEAR"
(just being pedantic )

Ha! Sorry, comment now edited to be accurate.

 

[Blamhappy]

Joanna Yeates took weeks to be found. Adrian Lynch took ages. The other student has only just been found today and went missing the day before Lilly. I'm not at all surprised that the police are still searching.

This was supposed to be quoting a post that said she's not been found by now so it's more likely kidnapping. I was disagreeing. My internet connection is poor currently.

 

[Sera]

I don’t know much about this pond but I was surprised at how shallow it seems to be. I know it’s possible to drown in a puddle though but I think I always associate missing people with deep water.

You have to remember though, temperatures were below freezing the night she disappeared. The pond was frozen, and if she did fall in, I'm not sure she would have been able to get back out due to the shock. Just my opinion.

 

[Mersault]

I don’t know much about this pond but I was surprised at how shallow it seems to be. I know it’s possible to drown in a puddle though but I think I always associate missing people with deep water.

Is that based on the photos of people trawling it and walking through? Not sure if it's deeper in other parts: the photos on Google show it as being quite large and a fishing website says it's an acre - Oak Road » Hull And District Anglers Association

 

[OrlandoJames]

I know this is probably just phrasing on your part, but it is not a fact that she lost her keys. It's speculation only. If she hadn't brought her keys in the first place the police would have found them in her house by now (though whether they would have told the public if they did, I don't know). If she lost them during the night, I don't suppose they would know... though you would think that with how thorough the searches had been, the police would have found any lost keys.

I personally think that she did have her key, she just didn't want to go into her house because she didn't want to be alone.

MOO.

I didn't say it was a fact - I said that her behaviour suggests it. Which it does. If she didn't want to be alone, why would she choose to sit on a bench, on her own, in the freezing cold? Why would she turn away somebody who checked on her rather than engaging in conversation? Why not find a local bar where she could engage with other people?

If the account of her looking 'distressed' on the bench is true, it suggests to me that an evening that had begun so promisingly (she was apparently very happy earlier on) had unravelled badly: first, she wasn't allowed in the club and her friends went in without her; and second - possibly - she arrived back at home to discover she couldn't get into her flat. She was cold, alone, drunk and probably very unhappy at the way the evening had turned out. If hypothermia had kicked in too, she would have become even more confused and liable to make strange decisions. At which point she would have been in a very vulnerable position.

 

[LittleMystery]

You have to remember though, temperatures were below freezing the night she disappeared. The pond was frozen, and if she did fall in, I'm not sure she would have been able to get back out due to the shock. Just my opinion.

Yeah of course! I wasn’t saying it wasn’t possible or even really speaking about this instance specifically. I was just generalising that I always think of deep water with missing people.

 

[Mersault]

It is definitely a dead end, there's absolutely no reason for Libby to have gone down there unless she was planning to jump in the pond or river. It'd have been really dark and she had no torch, plus she possibly had going out shoes on so it wouldn't be easy terrain. I'm wondering if someone has reported seeing a vehicle drive down there at a strange time.

Yes, or perhaps some dashcam footage of her heading up Beresford Avenue. Presumably there's more student houses off that road too.

 

[Sera]

Is that based on the photos of people trawling it and walking through? Not sure if it's deeper in other parts: the photos on Google show it as being quite large and a fishing website says it's an acre - Oak Road » Hull And District Anglers Association

Not sure how accurate Google Earth is, but tracing the perimeter of the pond gives an estimate of 8326m square to search.

 

[Ec1995]

Yes, quite possibly. But whether the keys were lost or not taken in the first place, her behaviour was that of somebody who arrives home and suddenly realises that they can't get in.

When looking at the house that is in pictures (assuming it is the house at which she lived) it looks to be number 15. It can be accessed around the back meaning there could be a reason for her to have gone around the back of the house near the drain to try to get into the house via an unlocked back door ? And there is vehicle access as well.

 

[LittleMystery]

Is that based on the photos of people trawling it and walking through? Not sure if it's deeper in other parts: the photos on Google show it as being quite large and a fishing website says it's an acre - Oak Road » Hull And District Anglers Association

Yes the videos and photos. Thanks for that link. I know absolutely nothing about fishing though to know whether it would need to be deeper on the angling side.

Interesting it mentions a Park Ranger. I’m assuming the Park Ranger’s office only opens during the day for operations rather than for night security?

 

[Mersault]

When looking at the house that is in pictures (assuming it is the house at which she lived) it looks to be number 15. It can be accessed around the back meaning there could be a reason for her to have gone around the back of the house near the drain to try to get into the house via an unlocked back door ? And there is vehicle access as well.

Yep, and steps down to the drain. Sadly I think the most likely explanation is that she tried to get into her home via the back entrance then for whatever reason went down to the water and fell in. The police have been searching there and downstream, but I don't know how fast the current would have been.

 

[Ec1995]

Yep, and steps down to the drain. Sadly I think the most likely explanation is that she tried to get into her home via the back entrance then for whatever reason went down to the water and fell in. The police have been searching there and downstream, but I don't know how fast the current would have been.

I actually live in hull but aren’t familiar with that particular area, I know the river hull that the drain leads to has a strong current however the drain itself looks from google street view to be a small slow flowing waterway, and with it being iced over you would think the ice would hinder any movement. I would imagine they would have found her there by now, however the possibility of a vehicle accessing there is also of concern I imagine.

 

[Lincolnshirelad]

Hi all,

I live relatively local to Hull, im across the river near Scunthorpe (I was actually driving past closeby to the lake they discovered a body yesterday, another sad story! What on earth is happening?!) but spend a lot of time over there for client meetings (work) and seeing friends.

Scunthorpe article : Police search Ashby Ville after reports of body

Back to Libby.

One thing I am very surprised about is the lack of CCTV coverage and also the fact they haven't released any to the public yet - is this a normal thing they would withhold at this stage? With the whole situation and sheer amount of people helping - this could at least help others.

I have friends who live in these student areas (not the specific one Libby lives on) but similar areas with a mix of people (non students). Most homes have their own CCTV due to crime and drunken antics from people coming home. I'm very surprised with the amount of social media attention no one else has released any CCTV. I personally have my own cameras trained on the street and would be searching through. I suspect this might be because of evidence that this hasn't be released / made known.

Going back in time to my own drinking days - a lot of the suggestions about being in a depressed state after being declined entry sounds very similar to my own experience. The drinking culture in the UK is excessive and "pre-drinks" as they call it is getting worse. We used to get slightly drunk then go out but now we are seeing people getting drunk to the point they are sick! I can remember being declined entry for this very same reason and sitting in the local park with a kebab feeling sorry for myself, with the extra amount of alcohol all sorts of nasty things go through your head. With it being a cold night - I can imagine Libby would of got cold very quickly adding to a confused and upset state.

I agree with other suggestions that something about this whole situation just doesn't feel right and I think the police know this too - hence the various evidence collection (door examination).

I feel for Libby, this is an absolutely horrible situation. We all want this to have a good ending but with all these other stories that are similar its looking slim, I just hope it's another of these cases in america where they show up eventually.

If I feel I can offer some information regarding the area I will do my absolute best - but I don't want to suggest anything that might be damaging, that's my worry! I actually came across this forum listening to the podcast "Up and Vanished" and understand from that case that people read things on here. But I can ask local friends as I have a lot in the local area. I won't be visiting the area as there are a lot of people already there - I guess it would hamper the progress being made.

 

[Lincolnshirelad]

I actually live in hull but aren’t familiar with that particular area, I know the river hull that the drain leads to has a strong current however the drain itself looks from google street view to be a small slow flowing waterway, and with it being iced over you would think the ice would hinder any movement. I would imagine they would have found her there by now, however the possibility of a vehicle accessing there is also of concern I imagine.

The river hull has a strong undercurrent and also deep muddy verges. I know closer to the estuary people have jumped off previous (I cant find the case) but a young mans body was held under by the mud until it made its way free. Unfortunately one of my friends was involved in the recovery effort and explained to me how this happens. This is why alot of these cases the bodies surface alot longer than the usual time it takes.

The drain on the otherhand - we dont have our drains cleaned as much as we used to, so vegetation builds up and layers - so as you can see in the video and photos that the reeds on the edges are quite heavy. You can sink into these - although on the bank itself not too much but from fishing days they can have little pockets of space underneath where its started to grow in towards the middle.

 

[Sera]

Is anybody else somewhat bothered by the anomaly of time between the taxi picking her up from the Welly and dropping her off on Wellesley Avenue? It is literally just down the main road. It should have taken 5 or 10 minutes to get there, if that. So why did she not get dropped off until around 11:30pm? I would hope the police have already questioned the driver and are satisfied with the explanation and just not releasing the information to the public.

 

[Lincolnshirelad]

Is anybody else somewhat bothered by the anomaly of time between the taxi picking her up from the Welly and dropping her off on Wellesley Avenue? It is literally just down the main road. It should have taken 5 or 10 minutes to get there, if that. So why did she not get dropped off until around 11:30pm? I would hope the police have already questioned the driver and are satisfied with the explanation and just not releasing the information to the public.

There are so many factors at this time of night. I dont personally know how busy that night. Most Taxis are in a queue outside of clubs - then factor in if its facing towards or away from the direction it needs to be heading. I would say a 5 minute journey quickly becomes 20 minutes - plus taxi drivers do anything to take you a longer route.

 

[Ec1995]

The river hull has a strong undercurrent and also deep muddy verges. I know closer to the estuary people have jumped off previous (I cant find the case) but a young mans body was held under by the mud until it made its way free. Unfortunately one of my friends was involved in the recovery effort and explained to me how this happens. This is why alot of these cases the bodies surface alot longer than the usual time it takes.

The drain on the otherhand - we dont have our drains cleaned as much as we used to, so vegetation builds up and layers - so as you can see in the video and photos that the reeds on the edges are quite heavy. You can sink into these - although on the bank itself not too much but from fishing days they can have little pockets of space underneath where its started to grow in towards the middle.

Is anybody else somewhat bothered by the anomaly of time between the taxi picking her up from the Welly and dropping her off on Wellesley Avenue? It is literally just down the main road. It should have taken 5 or 10 minutes to get there, if that. So why did she not get dropped off until around 11:30pm? I would hope the police have already questioned the driver and are satisfied with the explanation and just not releasing the information to the public.

Yeah I noticed that as well, although if heavily intoxicated she could have been feeling worse for wear and had to stop to be ill during the journey, I also considered there could have been a need to stop at a cash point but I would have thought this may have been mentioned, the more confusing issue is the fact that she didn’t ask the man that asked if she was okay to use his phone, it would have been possible to call a friend or maybe parents? The events after being dropped of are just unusual... something doesn’t quite add up !

 

[Lincolnshirelad]

Yeah I noticed that as well, although if heavily intoxicated she could have been feeling worse for wear and had to stop to be ill during the journey, I also considered there could have been a need to stop at a cash point but I would have thought this may have been mentioned, the more confusing issue is the fact that she didn’t ask the man that asked if she was okay to use his phone, it would have been possible to call a friend or maybe parents? The events after being dropped of are just unusual... something doesn’t quite add up !

I personally wonder, going back to the witnesses that saw her exit the taxi and head off down the road - that she knew where she was going and possibly a friend closeby? Most students would have friends living locally, possibly others having a party just down the road - maybe the place she started her evening?

She then arrives to find no one there - or has a disagreement with someone and walks off towards the bench where she is seen crying by the witness.

 

[Sera]

There are so many factors at this time of night. I dont personally know how busy that night. Most Taxis are in a queue outside of clubs - then factor in if its facing towards or away from the direction it needs to be heading. I would say a 5 minute journey quickly becomes 20 minutes - plus taxi drivers do anything to take you a longer route.

I understand what you're saying, but if you look on Google Maps right now, almost the entire length of Beverley Road from the Welly to Wellesley Avenue is congested, and even with that congestion, the time is 12 minutes. In normal traffic conditions it's around 7 minutes. It's a straight line down Beverley, then one right turn to Wellesley. IMO the journey should have taken no more than 15/20 minutes even if there was lots of traffic. However, it is completely possible as suggested by other members that Libby needed to be sick, or felt sick so the driver pulled over for a few minutes during the journey.
screenshot from Google Maps.