CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

[Niner]

Update in red:

Thursday, February 14th:
*Trial continues (Day 19) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on Fridays.
Skipping Day 1 (1/7/19) thru 6 (1/15/19) – reference post #1180 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2
Skipping Day 7 (1/16/19) thru 11 (1/24/19) – reference post #1121 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3
Skipping Day 12 (1/28/19) thru 14 (1/31/19) - Reference post #217 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5
Skipping Day 15 (2/5/19) thru 17 (2/7/19) - reference post #648 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6
2/13/19 Day 18: State witnesses: Detective Jason Schroeder continues his testimony from last Thursday, under cross examination. He analyzed two McStay computers, Merritt's iPhone & a computer from Merritt. After lunch, attorneys are arguing over a QuickBooks witness, records. Michael West, works for Intuit. Sgt. Ryan Smith being recalled. Trial starts at 11am, a juror has an appointment, continues on 2/14.
2/14/19 Day 19: Arguments without jury present. Judge will allow the State to put on the evidence with regards to closeup photos of tire tracks, inquiries about U.S. borders, references to changing identity, & screenshot of Joseph McStay's contacts & cell phone records. State witness: Detective Dan Hanke (testifying about the Feb 8 & 9 calls made to QuickBooks). Ran out of witnesses ended at about 3:15pm. Next court date is Tuesday, 2/19.

 

[mrjitty]

I thunk these theories that Joey was doing some kind of new, high level advanced accounting strategies, so he asked Chase to write himself checks and backdate then delete them is a quite a stretch.

I think the simplest answer is that Chase decided on his own to create those checks, and backdated and deleted to try and cover it up. JMO

This is why I get so anorak nerdish about evidential procedure. We have to be very focussed on what things are in evidence, before we jump to the process of inference.

To my mind the prosecution have proven a number of facts which give rise to a natural and obvious inference of fraud by chase.

So you might say, this is now a prima facie conclusion the jury can and should reach unless and until the defence proves some facts going the other way.

mere speculation about advanced accounting strategies and DK access belongs on websleuths rather than in the Courtroom, unless the defence can raise these things as live issues at trial via evidence.

 

[mrjitty]

We do not know that DK was fraudulently accessing his emails. He may have been, but maybe not. Maybe there are other ways that he knew the emails were piling up. I work a lot for my husband on his projects so many times people CC me on their work emails to him. If he wasnt answering his emails and they were piling up, I'd know about it, but I don't have his password.

And yes, his QB was accessed by Chase. Chase is a long time conman/grifter/thief. Joey was not. So Chase got one over on him for sure.

But that doesn't mean that Joey voluntarily gave his passcodes or log in info to Chase. JMO

On the email thing - SEO websites generally have a sales funnel process to generate the prospect via a web contact form.

If the site used such a form, I have no doubt DK was likely copied on those emails generated on the website, as the web admin.

They may even have used a sales inquiry email address that both men had access to. This is common so that inquiries don't go unanswered

 

[missy1974]

Also, about that 'missing' laptop. That may be a trick by the defense team to try and make it look like there is a hidden, missing laptop with ALL the important info on it.

Just like they did with trying to imply that there were actually recordings from the QB call, but somehow the Prosecution was trying to keep it hidden because it would hurt their case. Then we found out the calls are erased after months go by.

And just like they did with the 'knife' buried in the graves. I think we will find out that was a clever lie, planted by the defense.

Same thing with these 'calls' from Joey, and the defense implying it was Joey, discussing the checking account activity with Chase. And the only 'evidence' of that is that he called around the same time as Chase was on the QB accounts.

But Joey called Chase every day, several times a day, and usually at those same times. So there is no causal connection there at all--just the defense trying to create an implied connection. And those calls may have gone to voice mail so that would nullify their claims right there.

JMO

I said I wondered about a missing laptop... I didn't say the defense did LOL They probably know exactly where it is otherwise I doubt they would have asked.

The knife was from us posters here, hearing it incorrectly ;-)

Listen, you can have your opinion, and you are free to have it. I am also free to have an opinion, and I'm also free to want more information before I form an opinion. I honestly can't see how anyone can form an opinion with the way this is trial is going, but hey, that's just my OPINION. Most here had made up their mind long before this trial started (whether guilt or innocence), some are just waiting to see the evidence and want to discuss it.

You make it sound like the defense is making stuff up, I don't think it's all made up, again MY OPINION. I noticed that everyone glossed over the fact that the defense got a STATE WITNESS to change his opinion about someone using the computer in the home on the 5th, why? because the State didn't give that witness the complete information. If it turns out by the end of the trial that I don't think he did it, I believe that will be my turning point. The defense is being deceptive and implying things? What about the State? Do they get a pass?

 

[Tortoise]

He obviously didn't not know enough to keep his info private. QB's was accessed by Chase, either knowingly by Joey, or not. And his emails had been accessed by Dan. So, no, he didn't know enough. One way or another, his info was not kept private.

I don't think anyone is saying he was doing high level advanced accounting strategies LOL to the contrary, I think paying 2 times for the same product every month, is NOT an advanced strategy if he was the only one accessing it ... he obviously did it for a reason, I would like to know why, don't you?

Any statement from DK about emails piling up relates to after Feb 4th and without knowing the mechanics of how he knew that it's not accurate to say Joey didn't keep his info private. Did family ever say anything about Joey's emails? It could have been a collaborative effort involving other people to get his email password.

 

[missy1974]

On the email thing - SEO websites generally have a sales funnel process to generate the prospect via a web contact form.

If the site used such a form, I have no doubt DK was likely copied on those emails generated on the website, as the web admin.

They may even have used a sales inquiry email address that both men had access to. This is common so that inquiries don't go unanswered

That's kind of what I figured, that he may see them that way, but how would he know if Joey was not answering them or opening them on his end? I would like to know what Joey used for that email... back in 2010, I used outlook and I know lots of others would have around that time as well. If he was pulling them into a program like that, I don't know how Dan could "see" that.

I did go and look at the archived website, I believe it did have a sales@ and a contact@ email... I was actually looking to see if I could find a custom@ email (which I couldn't find on the website), but I assume it existed even if it wasn't linked on the website. I don't think Dan would have ever replied to emails, but never know I guess.

 

[mrjitty]

Same thing with these 'calls' from Joey, and the defense implying it was Joey, discussing the checking account activity with Chase. And the only 'evidence' of that is that he called around the same time as Chase was on the QB accounts.

Exactly.

This is what I call testimony by counsel.

The defence have the only living witness who can discuss what was said on the calls. They must call him or quit with this.

I know High Court Judges who would have already warned the defence about this. if they want to start claiming what is said on those calls, they better be calling the witness or receive a severe reprimand.

 

[missy1974]

Any statement from DK about emails piling up relates to after Feb 4th and without knowing the mechanics of how he knew that it's not accurate to say Joey didn't keep his info private. Did family ever say anything about Joey's emails? It could have been a collaborative effort involving other people to get his email password.

It was his reason for wanting a welfare check, so it was the same day or before he even called the family. The 9th or 10th.

 

[Tortoise]

I noticed that everyone glossed over the fact that the defense got a STATE WITNESS to change his opinion about someone using the computer in the home on the 5th, why?

rsbm for focus.

If the computer guys don't have proof the computer was accessed after Feb 4th, what's the difference between that and say the computer searches done on Feb 4th (dine with a view) and the Mexico searches in January?

 

[mrjitty]

Any statement from DK about emails piling up relates to after Feb 4th and without knowing the mechanics of how he knew that it's not accurate to say Joey didn't keep his info private. Did family ever say anything about Joey's emails? It could have been a collaborative effort involving other people to get his email password.

You may have been able to get into Joey's email by opening his email client on his desktop - if that is what he used.

Many people don't password protect the desktop client / cloud client - or the login is remembered for 30 days etc

 

[Tortoise]

It was his reason for wanting a welfare check, so it was the same day or before he even called the family. The 9th or 10th.

Thanks. So was this emails sent specifically to Joey or maybe Gina or EIP in general?

 

[missy1974]

Exactly.

This is what I call testimony by counsel.

The defence have the only living witness who can discuss what was said on the calls. They must call him or quit with this.

I know High Court Judges who would have already warned the defence about this. if they want to start claiming what is said on those calls, they better be calling the witness or receive a severe reprimand.

This trial is nothing like anything I've watched.... ok, maybe the OJ trial ( I was young then lol). It's not as blatant as it sounds in a post. They showed the phone records, the QB's records, the phone records, the Qb records, etc. it was tedious, but they went through it all.

 

[mrjitty]

That's kind of what I figured, that he may see them that way, but how would he know if Joey was not answering them or opening them on his end? I would like to know what Joey used for that email... back in 2010, I used outlook and I know lots of others would have around that time as well. If he was pulling them into a program like that, I don't know how Dan could "see" that.

I did go and look at the archived website, I believe it did have a sales@ and a contact@ email... I was actually looking to see if I could find a custom@ email (which I couldn't find on the website), but I assume it existed even if it wasn't linked on the website. I don't think Dan would have ever replied to emails, but never know I guess.

There are a lot of potential explanations

e.g if sales@ was a separate POP account, then DK may have had access to it.

It's guess its possible that DK set up all of the EIP email? But without Joey's pass he likely did not have access to Joey's POP email.

 

[mrjitty]

This trial is nothing like anything I've watched.... ok, maybe the OJ trial ( I was young then lol). It's not as blatant as it sounds in a post. They showed the phone records, the QB's records, the phone records, the Qb records, etc. it was tedious, but they went through it all.

This went on a lot in the Pistorius trial where Roux loved to say "as the defence will later show" while proceeding to run wild speculation at witnesses in cross.

Of course when we got to the defence witnesses, many of these things ended up not being shown at all.

Anyway - the content of those calls is between 2 men, one of whom is dead, and the other one whom the defence can call as a witness.

So the defence better be calling the witness, if they want to claim what the calls were about.

IMO failure to call the witness after making contentions to prosecution witnesses should draw adverse comment from the Judge in summing up.

 

[Tortoise]

Exactly.

This is what I call testimony by counsel.

The defence have the only living witness who can discuss what was said on the calls. They must call him or quit with this.

I know High Court Judges who would have already warned the defence about this. if they want to start claiming what is said on those calls, they better be calling the witness or receive a severe reprimand.

It will be rather funny at the end though if Chase doesn't testify and the judge has to instruct the jury there is nothing in evidence about call content and the defense can't use it in their closing. Would that be how it works?

 

[missy1974]

rsbm for focus.

If the computer guys don't have proof the computer was accessed after Feb 4th, what's the difference between that and say the computer searches done on Feb 4th (dine with a view) and the Mexico searches in January?

I'm not sure I understand?

The witness, Detective Shroeder, testified on Thursday that someone accessed a bookmark on February 5th. He said it was "user" accessed. Today, after seeing an FBI report, that no one showed him before, he changed his opinion and said it was system accessed, consistent with a computer scan, because 27,000 other files were accessed around that time. It was deceptive IMO I have some more thoughts after today's testimony, but I will wait to see better computer experts! Schroeder just ran reports, he ran what he was asked for.

 

[missy1974]

Thanks. So was this emails sent specifically to Joey or maybe Gina or EIP in general?

lol I must be tired and it's time for bed... I don't understand your question? DK said that "emails were piling up and going unanswered". No specific email.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm not sure I understand?

The witness, Detective Shroeder, testified on Thursday that someone accessed a bookmark on February 5th. He said it was "user" accessed. Today, after seeing an FBI report, that no one showed him before, he changed his opinion and said it was system accessed, consistent with a computer scan, because 27,000 other files were accessed around that time. It was deceptive IMO I have some more thoughts after today's testimony, but I will wait to see better computer experts! Schroeder just ran reports, he ran what he was asked for.

I haven't watched the last 2 days yet, but dine with a view was a bookmark accessed on Feb 4th I seem to recall. How do we know that wasn't a system scan also?

 

[missy1974]

There are a lot of potential explanations

e.g if sales@ was a separate POP account, then DK may have had access to it.

It's guess its possible that DK set up all of the EIP email? But without Joey's pass he likely did not have access to Joey's POP email.

POP email is like using an Outlook or I think later it changed it's name to windows live? Sorry lol I am familiar with it, I'm sure there are other programs.... used it for years, loved it! I could keep emails on my server but pulled them into Outlook, if I opened them and/or deleted them in Outlook, I could still go to the server and they would be there, and look unopened. I envision DK possibly having access to those server emails, but not what Joey did with them. I'm sure we will eventually find out ;-)

 

[Tortoise]

lol I must be tired and it's time for bed... I don't understand your question? DK said that "emails were piling up and going unanswered". No specific email.

So my question is how do you know enough to say DK accessed Joey's emails because Joey didn't keep his info private? These could be emails DK legitimately had knowledge of without hacking in which I think is the inference.