OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#43

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Betty P said:
If it helps. Len Manley stated in the news media at the time of the raids on the Wagner farms that the W's had tried to force HMR to sign custody documents. Two weeks before, IIRC

It's in our timeline back on the first page of this thread.
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You're right, 4/22/2016 minus 2 weeks = approx 4/8/2016.
Well within the same general time frame of 4/3/2016.
 
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Puzzles8 said:
You're right, 4/22/2016 minus 2 weeks = approx 4/8/2016.
Well within the same general time frame of 4/3/2016.
Click to expand...


DeWine, Reader and others have said the W's began planning the murders in January 2016. Perhaps they thought they were being "reasonable" by giving HMR and her family one last chance to avoid death by agreeing to giving JW full custody. How generous of them. JMO.

They must have felt the murders were justified once HMR refused.
 
Betty P said:
If it helps. Len Manley stated in the news media at the time of the raids on the Wagner farms that the W's had tried to force HMR to sign custody documents. Two weeks before, IIRC

It's in our timeline back on the first page of this thread.
Click to expand...
Are you referring to the raids on the Wagner farms on 5/12 & 5/13/2017?
 
FrescaandSouthernComfort said:
Not so much as the location, rather that all 6 were being watched and also CPS was involved. Many agencies
were notified and kept it quiet until all were in custody.
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I was thinking of the KY location. It was strange to me they would take a horse with colic 130 miles to a vet. JMO
 
Puzzles8 said:
The only date that can be accurately established is either the date they were presented to LE or the date they were presented to border agents.
The actual date of the forgery harder to approximate. They could have been done in 2015 or in 2017 before they left for AK. They forged HMR's signature whether she was dead or alive. The only thing that might be telling is something in the Notary stamp. Most of the stamp is pretty generic, the personalization includes the Notary's name and the date their license expires. Each time the Notary renews their license, they get a new stamp. In our state, I think licenses are good for 3 or 4 years before they need to be renewed.
The April 3, 2016 date could mean several things. Could be the "date" they wrote on the forged document. Dates on those documents are hand written. 4/3/16 could also be the date they were presented to LE. I don't know enough to be able to tell from reading the Indictment, so here are 2 possible scenarios.
My 2 possible scenarios. MOO
Documents were legally prepared (no doubt by Mr. Owen) prior to 4/3/2016. The documents have no date on the printed document. The W's took the documents over to the R's house/s for HMR to sign. She refuses and calls CRsr to come over.
1) Big fight between Billy and CRsr ensues. Billy loses the fight badly and they leave humiliated and with unsigned custody papers. The W's get home and forge HMR's signature and write in any date they want - say, 4/3/2916. RN notarizes later.
2) Forged documents are prepared and notarized by RN before 4/3/2016. JW (and crew?) try to take SW on 4/3/2016, HMR refuses. Big fight between Billy and CRsr ensues. Billy loses fight badly and calls LE. After LE arrives, one of the W's pulls LE aside and present the falsified and notarized custody documents to them on 4/3/2016(documents could have any date prior to 4/3/2016 on them). LE allows SW to be taken by the Wagners.
JMO
Click to expand...

D
 
Puzzles8 said:
Are you referring to the raids on the Wagner farms on 5/12 & 5/13/2017?
Click to expand...

Yes. I came across an article recently from that week of the raids & JM getting arrested for breaking the GPS in which Len Manley mentioned again that the Wagners had been trying to get HMR to sign over custody to him 2 weeks before the murders.

For reasons known only to Len Manley, he felt it necessary to mention this to the news media again, as he said the same thing a week or so after the murders.
 
Do we even know where the custody documents were found? Which search? The Burglary charges for all 4 Ws include "documents" taken from the scenes. I would think the Ws made dang sure those weren't left behind. JMO

The custody documents haven't been a part of discovery, that I've seen anyway.

Numerous warrants for searches were carried out during the investigation. Was RN's place one of them? IDK. We shall see. Meanwhile, we just need to be careful in what we read into things. MHO
 
Loomis124 said:
Do we even know where the custody documents were found? Which search? The Burglary charges for all 4 Ws include "documents" taken from the scenes. I would think the Ws made dang sure those weren't left behind. JMO

The custody documents haven't been a part of discovery, that I've seen anyway.

Numerous warrants for searches were carried out during the investigation. Was RN's place one of them? IDK. We shall see. Meanwhile, we just need to be careful in what we read into things. MHO
Click to expand...

We don't know where the docs were found yet. Assume we'll find out.
 
Puzzles, you may be thinking of COUNT 16 for the 4 Ws:

...did
Loomis124 said:
Do we even know where the custody documents were found? Which search? The Burglary charges for all 4 Ws include "documents" taken from the scenes. I would think the Ws made dang sure those weren't left behind. JMO

The custody documents haven't been a part of discovery, that I've seen anyway.

Numerous warrants for searches were carried out during the investigation. Was RN's place one of them? IDK. We shall see. Meanwhile, we just need to be careful in what we read into things. MHO
Click to expand...

I apologize. It was one of the Tampering with Evidence charges that mentioned "documents" instead of the Burglary charges (at the scenes).
 
Puzzles8 said:
https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...cial-Prosecutions/PikeCountyMurderIndictments
Click to expand...

I believe you may be referring to Count 16 of the 4 Ws indictments (linked above) which reads as follows (it will not allow me to copy and paste, but please feel free to compare):

[Defendant's name], on or about April 3, 2016, at the County of Pike, and in the State of Ohio, did unlawfully, knowing that an official proceeding or investigation was in progress, or was about to be or likely to be instituted, MAKE, PRESENT, *OR* (emphasis mine) USE any record, document, or thing, to wit: custody documents, k owing it to be false and with purpose to mislead a public official who is or may be engaged in such proceeding or investigation, ow with purpose to corrupt the outcome of any such proceeding or investigation, in violation of Section 2921.12(A)(2)/2921.12(B) of the Ohio Revised Code.
TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE - A FELONY OF THE THIRD DEGREE.

My opinion: ...make, present, or use....with purpose to...mislead a public official who is or may be...
with purpose to corrupt the outcome...."

"...make" is consistent with on or about April 3, 2016.

"...with purpose to mislead..." is not a direct act

"...a public official..." - very broad term, perhaps a judge? Again, it doesn't matter because it doesn't cite an official was mislead, but only that that was the purpose of the custody documents...

I am not trying to argue with anyone. Only trying to discuss facts and not read things that just aren't there.

I respect each and every poster and your views. Thank you all posters for considering my views and opinions. Especially thank you to the Moderators of this forum who give us this opportunity.
 
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