GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #68

[gitana1]

I was making a point that CW lies and cannot be believed! You stated the same in a recent post wherein you also stated you were done with CW and NK.

Your post was specific. You quoted the DA and asked what had changed. I was just tying to answer and explain that the DA isn't what's driving this.

I haven't been on these threads in weeks so I'm not sure what recent post you're referring to. Neither have I used they term "done" in relation to my feelings about NK and CW.

I was glad CW didn't give an allocution. And NK is a horrible person. I've stated both those things months ago. But she has nothing to do with this. And neither does his lack of an allocution.

What the DA stated has nothing to do with this either.

 

[NuttMegg]

I looked back through your recent posts but am not sure I follow the conversation correctly, so here are some thoughts which may not properly relate—apologies if they don’t.

It’s correct that CW is a liar, and as Agent Tammy Lee told him, he’s a bad liar—which is why we are so certain he has lied. Yes, she told him that as part of her interrogation strategy, but it’s also evident to most of the public.

So the interviewers, and we along with them, may be able to sift truth from lies again in this new interview, if he continues to lie.

There’s only a small amount of information missing. The most important, I think, for the public anyway, is the exact timing of the murders, and details about his methods. He could tell this in a tiny amount of time and the “what” aspects would be pretty fleshed out. Any extra details would be great. The interview lasted several hours, so maybe we will learn quite a bit.

The other missing piece is his motive, and his overall reasoning about how he planned the murders, and his reactions along the way, and how he thought he could get away with the crimes. I think if he is going to lie, this area is where he has both the most latitude and may believe he has the most to gain from lying.

After all, only he knows what was going on in his head, and it may be that even if he tells the truth as he knows it, he may have had to work hard to get any meaningful inkling of why he did something so senseless and cruel. He may have tried to cast things in his own thoughts to make himself feel better. And I’m not sure how much insight he has. He also has a small opportunity for reputation management here, although imo the best thing he could do for his reputation is not to try to save face at all—say what he did, say what he does understand about his motivation, and say it was wrong and vicious and his victims were all totally innocent and could never have done anything to deserve this.

I’m also assuming that if this were just a pack of lies, the interviewers might not release it. However, maybe it would have gotten out that they had interviewed him (visitor logs? witnesses?) and the information could have been requested via the FOIA. That’s not my area of expertise at all as I’m not a journalist.

I do know that lies and secrets are difficult for most people to handle. If CW is a complete psychopath, maybe this is not a problem for him. I’ve been quick to conclude that someone who can murder their family, and bury their wife facedown in the dirt, and drop their little girls’ bodies in oil must be psychopathic, because it shows an utterly cold, unaffected psyche I can’t personally fathom.

But maybe there are some dimensions to his mind that have led him to feel some stress about the lies and about holding on to his secrets. Or maybe he just wants attention and knows that being primarily truthful and giving up valuable information is the best way to get that attention, and maybe even more contact in future.

He has only his dad contacting him now, sounds like, which might also put him in a sort of emotionally regressed state in which he’s been a “bad boy” and needs to tell what he did so he can come out of his room. Except he’s never really getting out of that room, but still.

All my own total speculation and opinion above.

I am going to re-read this thoughtful post, but the last thing I would ever expect to hear from him is that it was pre-planned. There is a certain excuse most people would fall back on if they could...."I lost it", which in some minds can switch it back to being his creator's fault. I hope he reveals exactly how he killed them all, yet at the same time, no way he's going to say he planned it ahead of time. IMO .

 

[kkdj]

I am going to re-read this thoughtful post, but the last thing I would ever expect to hear from him is that it was pre-planned. There is a certain excuse most people would fall back on if they could...."I lost it", which in some minds can switch it back to being god's fault. I hope he reveals exactly how he killed them all, yet at the same time, no way he's going to say he planned it ahead of time. IMO .

I think he did plan it and will (has) admitted this. jmo Actually, I read this somewhere.

 

[AlyBaba]

Welcome to Websleuths, @AlyBaba.

Thank you very much PommyMommy ! I am totally fixated by this case, waiting to see what is released on 7 March !

 

[AlyBaba]

I am going to re-read this thoughtful post, but the last thing I would ever expect to hear from him is that it was pre-planned. There is a certain excuse most people would fall back on if they could...."I lost it", which in some minds can switch it back to being god's fault. I hope he reveals exactly how he killed them all, yet at the same time, no way he's going to say he planned it ahead of time. IMO .

If he should dare go into any detail about (in his own words) the "evil cruel act " he would be painting a giant X on himself for other inmates to attack, not that he does not have one already. I wonder if he has been assured of some additional protection in exchange? I agree that he will desist from describing this as pre-meditated, although as he is a moron, I don't know how he has reasoned that "snapping " will excuse the fact that he killed his wife and children in cold blood. Forgive me, but I do not recall that although Shan'ann was extremely upset about the $60 meal issue, that she ever confronted him about it in texts whilst in Arizona. CW said in his interrogation that she knew about that and I wonder whether a big row started when she challenged him after arriving home that fateful night. May this have then led to her tears, the mascara running and her collapsing into bed, utterly distraught after he admitted the affair or gave her some implausible excuses that she did not believe. After crying herself to sleep, I think he attacked her in the bed at that point. Just my opinion.

 

[NuttMegg]

I want for CW to tell the truth, the whole truth, without any aggrandizement or self-serving purpose. I believe wholeheartedly that the families deserve all of the closure that is possible. I hope that is what the interview was about.

But, if this was just about CW purging himself, why was everything kept secret until a media outlet filed a CORA request? We would not have known about the interview, the recordings, etc., if not for the CORA request.

"The CBI says that an audio recording of the interview and a written report would be released next Thursday, March 7 via the Colorado Open Records Act for those who have requested the files." - The Denver Channel
---------------
2. I speculated, when the interview story broke, about a number of possibilities. In regards to NKs involvement, I know she was not involved in the murders. I know that evidence proves this. I do feel that she shares some responsibility for what happened and NK has stated herself, in one interview, that she had some responsibility. I do NOT hate NK, I never have, but as all the facts have come out and her actions and omissions were revealed I've come to find her morally weak, dishonest, distasteful and unpleasant. Beyond that, I have no feelings.
-----------

The original Jace Larson twitter post that someone posted here (sorry I can't remember who) said the following, in part: "Convicted murderer Chris Watts’ visitors log from a Wisconsin prison shows law enforcement visiting him on Feb. 18, the day the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) says it got more information from him about the killings of his wife and two daughters. (I had this document for a few days, but it didn't seem relevant until today.)" Jace Larson

So it looks like someone must monitor those visitor logs, legally or not legally, and that days before Thursday's announcement the media already knew about the visit, if not the purpose.

There are bits and pieces, details true or false coming out on youtube, one site seems to be run by a responsible fellow, 411 NOW who claims to have some inside info on how the meeting occurred, ie that the guards were outside the cell, etc. I won't link to it, search for Chris Watts recent interview with the detectives plus shout out...... (also look at his other post on Watt's security camera/neighbors/police plus. It shows exactly where the neighbor's camera was situated. I mention this re our discussions the other day about whether or not the neighbor had a doorbell camera).

Anyway, I wonder if that's what instigated the CORA requests, just the leaking that a meeting of any type had occurred.

I quoted your words about NK because I've thought it was pretty funny the few times I watched CW exclaim "She's a wonderful person!!" in his interviews with CBI/FBI. lol.

 

[Colorado303]

I want for CW to tell the truth, the whole truth, without any aggrandizement or self-serving purpose. I believe wholeheartedly that the families deserve all of the closure that is possible. I hope that is what the interview was about.

But, if this was just about CW purging himself, why was everything kept secret until a media outlet filed a CORA request? We would not have known about the interview, the recordings, etc., if not for the CORA request.

"The CBI says that an audio recording of the interview and a written report would be released next Thursday, March 7 via the Colorado Open Records Act for those who have requested the files." - The Denver Channel

Let me stop for a minute to state a few things;

1. I fully support what LE has done AND is doing in this case. I have never said otherwise. The performance and results have been exemplary and an example of justice working! I did comment that the interviews were paid for by the taxpayer, because another poster intimated there was no special cost to taxpayers. There was, and will continue to be cost to taxpayers, it's the nature of the system. I recognize it, but in this case I'm in full accord with the expense. Well worth the cost!

2. I speculated, when the interview story broke, about a number of possibilities. In regards to NKs involvement, I know she was not involved in the murders. I know that evidence proves this. I do feel that she shares some responsibility for what happened and NK has stated herself, in one interview, that she had some responsibility. I do NOT hate NK, I never have, but as all the facts have come out and her actions and omissions were revealed I've come to find her morally weak, dishonest, distasteful and unpleasant. Beyond that, I have no feelings.

3. There have been some twists in this case that took all of us by surprise and in some ways this case is unique, so questions and speculation are inevitable. I myself speculate and ask questions because I admire and respect the intellect and hard work that is here and I want to hear and consider everything.

Now, back to my first point. Why now? Why like this? And, if this was just getting the truth and full details from CW, why was it initially kept secret? Nine days, until we found out about the interview and another seven days until the release. It's probably just Standard Operating Procedure and March 07th will answer all questions. So, until then. . . . . . . !

BBM MOO

I’m certain the investigators that spoke with him wanted to be able to brief the Rzucek family before the report came out. I think they waited to make the announcement until after the Rzuceks were fully briefed, perhaps in person in North Carolina. And the announcement was made very shortly thereafter. Also wouldn’t be surprised if the investigators reached out directly to some media contacts first so they could file the CORA, perhaps even at the Rzucek family’s request. I’m sure the family wants any doubters left to know exactly what was said in that interview.

 

[Colorado303]

I looked back through your recent posts but am not sure I follow the conversation correctly, so here are some thoughts which may not properly relate—apologies if they don’t.

It’s correct that CW is a liar, and as Agent Tammy Lee told him, he’s a bad liar—which is why we are so certain he has lied. Yes, she told him that as part of her interrogation strategy, but it’s also evident to most of the public.

So the interviewers, and we along with them, may be able to sift truth from lies again in this new interview, if he continues to lie.

There’s only a small amount of information missing. The most important, I think, for the public anyway, is the exact timing of the murders, and details about his methods. He could tell this in a tiny amount of time and the “what” aspects would be pretty fleshed out. Any extra details would be great. The interview lasted several hours, so maybe we will learn quite a bit.

The other missing piece is his motive, and his overall reasoning about how he planned the murders, and his reactions along the way, and how he thought he could get away with the crimes. I think if he is going to lie, this area is where he has both the most latitude and may believe he has the most to gain from lying.

After all, only he knows what was going on in his head, and it may be that even if he tells the truth as he knows it, he may have had to work hard to get any meaningful inkling of why he did something so senseless and cruel. He may have tried to cast things in his own thoughts to make himself feel better. And I’m not sure how much insight he has. He also has a small opportunity for reputation management here, although imo the best thing he could do for his reputation is not to try to save face at all—say what he did, say what he does understand about his motivation, and say it was wrong and vicious and his victims were all totally innocent and could never have done anything to deserve this.

I’m also assuming that if this were just a pack of lies, the interviewers might not release it. However, maybe it would have gotten out that they had interviewed him (visitor logs? witnesses?) and the information could have been requested via the FOIA. That’s not my area of expertise at all as I’m not a journalist.

I do know that lies and secrets are difficult for most people to handle. If CW is a complete psychopath, maybe this is not a problem for him. I’ve been quick to conclude that someone who can murder their family, and bury their wife facedown in the dirt, and drop their little girls’ bodies in oil must be psychopathic, because it shows an utterly cold, unaffected psyche I can’t personally fathom.

But maybe there are some dimensions to his mind that have led him to feel some stress about the lies and about holding on to his secrets. Or maybe he just wants attention and knows that being primarily truthful and giving up valuable information is the best way to get that attention, and maybe even more contact in future.

He has only his dad contacting him now, sounds like, which might also put him in a sort of emotionally regressed state in which he’s been a “bad boy” and needs to tell what he did so he can come out of his room. Except he’s never really getting out of that room, but still.

All my own total speculation and opinion above.

Great post! I think you are exactly right and laid it out beautifully.

 

[PommyMommy]

I am going to re-read this thoughtful post, but the last thing I would ever expect to hear from him is that it was pre-planned. There is a certain excuse most people would fall back on if they could...."I lost it", which in some minds can switch it back to being god's fault. I hope he reveals exactly how he killed them all, yet at the same time, no way he's going to say he planned it ahead of time. IMO .

I think he did plan it and will (has) admitted this. jmo Actually, I read this somewhere.

I am somewhere right in between. I think there was some degree of planning, but I'm not 100% sold on whether he has admitted to that. I do hope so.
MOO

 

[NuttMegg]

If he should dare go into any detail about (in his own words) the "evil cruel act " he would be painting a giant X on himself for other inmates to attack, not that he does not have one already. I wonder if he has been assured of some additional protection in exchange? I agree that he will desist from describing this as pre-meditated, although as he is a moron, I don't know how he has reasoned that "snapping " will excuse the fact that he killed his wife and children in cold blood. Forgive me, but I do not recall that although Shan'ann was extremely upset about the $60 meal issue, that she ever confronted him about it in texts whilst in Arizona. CW said in his interrogation that she knew about that and I wonder whether a big row started when she challenged him after arriving home that fateful night. May this have then led to her tears, the mascara running and her collapsing into bed, utterly distraught after he admitted the affair or gave her some implausible excuses that she did not believe. After crying herself to sleep, I think he attacked her in the bed at that point. Just my opinion.

Remember he said "RAGE" to his father while with him in the interrogation room, as though that explained it all.
I agree that the coward attacked her while she slept, no way with her fingernails that he could have emerged without a scratch otherwise. But I think maybe Bella saw it and he knew he had to finish it all.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I think it will be a meaningful drop of information both because LE has essentially confirmed that by stating additional information was obtained but also because of the rumblings online from Watts family insiders. I won't go into detail because I can't cite them as sources but it leads me to speculate that CW is continuing his gas lighting of his family (and by extension, followers). How do they not see that he must have gas lighted SW as well? I believe the Watts family will continue to be confused, per CW's plan, after this drops even if he credibly admits to everything in detail - because while I think they will claim he never told them the contents of the interview in advance they will believe things that could only come from him like he was ambushed by this visit, didn't know he was being recorded, was told it was for other reasons he was speaking to them, and other weak excuses like they plied him with the sounds of friendship and special food treats. I said many months ago that supporters of his often ironically don't give him enough credit - while accusing SW of doing the same thing - by speaking of him like he must have a diminished mental capacity. One thing I learned by watching those LE interviews of him - he may not be the sharpest tack in the toolbox, but he was no dummy. He wove his lies as best he could and manipulated as much as he could. Some of it would even have been relatively believable if the evidence didn't indicate otherwise or if we hadn't just witnessed him being as convincing while he was lying a few minutes prior. He comes across as highly manipulative to me. I believe he has manipulated his family (and I don't mean to exonerate their behavior) for the entirety of his relationship with SW - playing the hapless victim and man in the middle to his advantage for sympathy. If they allow it, he will continue to do so for all time. MOO.

 

[Colorfuel]

I am somewhere right in between. I think there was some degree of planning, but I'm not 100% sold on whether he has admitted to that. I do hope so.
MOO

Imo there had to be at least a little planning. Just things I remember ... him volunteering to go to Cervi 319, throwing away a book he promised Shannan he’d read, not using a gift card for dinner with NK, and then the relative efficiency with which it seems he managed to accomplish three murders in a row, remove the bodies, dispose of them. The speed with which he canceled the girls’ school enrollment and tried to put the house on the market, as if he had been thinking ahead to that but couldn’t do them while Shanann was alive.

Not saying he had a careful plan, but some kind of forethought and methodicalness seems implied by details like these. JMO.

 

[molly1255]

I want for CW to tell the truth, the whole truth, without any aggrandizement or self-serving purpose. I believe wholeheartedly that the families deserve all of the closure that is possible. I hope that is what the interview was about.

But, if this was just about CW purging himself, why was everything kept secret until a media outlet filed a CORA request? We would not have known about the interview, the recordings, etc., if not for the CORA request.

"The CBI says that an audio recording of the interview and a written report would be released next Thursday, March 7 via the Colorado Open Records Act for those who have requested the files." - The Denver Channel

Let me stop for a minute to state a few things;

1. I fully support what LE has done AND is doing in this case. I have never said otherwise. The performance and results have been exemplary and an example of justice working! I did comment that the interviews were paid for by the taxpayer, because another poster intimated there was no special cost to taxpayers. There was, and will continue to be cost to taxpayers, it's the nature of the system. I recognize it, but in this case I'm in full accord with the expense. Well worth the cost!

2. I speculated, when the interview story broke, about a number of possibilities. In regards to NKs involvement, I know she was not involved in the murders. I know that evidence proves this. I do feel that she shares some responsibility for what happened and NK has stated herself, in one interview, that she had some responsibility. I do NOT hate NK, I never have, but as all the facts have come out and her actions and omissions were revealed I've come to find her morally weak, dishonest, distasteful and unpleasant. Beyond that, I have no feelings.

3. There have been some twists in this case that took all of us by surprise and in some ways this case is unique, so questions and speculation are inevitable. I myself speculate and ask questions because I admire and respect the intellect and hard work that is here and I want to hear and consider everything.

Now, back to my first point. Why now? Why like this? And, if this was just getting the truth and full details from CW, why was it initially kept secret? Nine days, until we found out about the interview and another seven days until the release. It's probably just Standard Operating Procedure and March 07th will answer all questions. So, until then. . . . . . . !

BBM MOO

I will admit that I initially also pondered whether CW may have turned "Starkweather" on NK. After more reading on this and thinking about it, I also don't think this is the case.

Why now is a very good question. I don't know the answer to that, but I highly doubt CW has found the Lord, feels remorseful for what he did and now wants to be helpful. I do think the right people went to hear what he had to say. They know the real CW and they know when he's lying. They also know how to ferret information out of him that is closer to the truth.

I imagine that even if the new details provide answers to some of the questions Shanann's family has had, the new details are likely very disturbing to them. Those details might include a lot of things, and perhaps provide the order of the murders and what Shanann, Bella and Celeste were aware of before he killed them.

My thoughts are the delay in releasing this to the public might be to give Shanann's family some time to digest the new details before the rest of the world learns it and to perhaps help prepare them for yet another possible round of the CW fan club nastiness. Some of these folks seem to really enjoy any opportunity to cause Shanann's family more pain.

All JMO.

 

[Misy]

I have a very vivid imagination! I always got the impression the DA Rourk didn't like NK. What if LE suspected her, but couldn't do anything as long as CW stuck to his story. Then, Feb 18th, LE meets with CW and lays out photos on a table; NK with her new lover going out to dinner, dancing, doing things lovers do. She's happy, her life is good! Maybe they had some recoded conversations. That is how the Feds got Sammy Gravano to turn on John Gotti. Video and recordings of John Gotti disparaging Sammy and disrespecting him!

So, LE says: "look Chris, Nichol is so happy and in love. Moving on. She's forgotten all about you. Listen to what she's said about you! She said; the cheese was already slipping off your cracker, when she met you! What do you think of that Chris?"

Chris has already shown he's not too smart and he can be manipulated.

Can't wait until Mar. 07th!

Note; "Cheese slipping from cracker" is an actual quote NK made to LE.

Does NK have a new boyfriend? I haven’t been able to find any new updates on her. Are there any?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Remember he said "RAGE" to his father while with him in the interrogation room, as though that explained it all.
I agree that the coward attacked her while she slept, no way with her fingernails that he could have emerged without a scratch otherwise. But I think maybe Bella saw it and he knew he had to finish it all.

Somehow, I doubt that CW has much of a clue what real "RAGE" is. Hopefully one day he finds out.

 

[molly1255]

Imo there had to be at least a little planning. Just things I remember ... him volunteering to go to Cervi 319, throwing away a book he promised Shannan he’d read, not using a gift card for dinner with NK, and then the relative efficiency with which it seems he managed to accomplish three murders in a row, remove the bodies, dispose of them. The speed with which he canceled the girls’ school enrollment and tried to put the house on the market, as if he had been thinking ahead to that but couldn’t do them while Shanann was alive.

Not saying he had a careful plan, but some kind of forethought and methodicalness seems implied by details like these. JMO.

I agree. I think there was some degree of pre-planning involved and for all of the reasons you've stated. I also think that right up until the time he was arrested, he really thought he was going to get away with it.

I'm so glad he's in prison for life with no parole, not only because it's justice, but also for the good of the rest of society. IMO, he is the most dangerous kind of monster possible because he was so adept at fooling those who knew him into believing he was such a wonderful guy.

 

[AbbyG]

It concerns me that Shannon's family lawyer said the family is "evaluating next steps." If CW told the truth, would there be next steps to evaluate? If he tried to heap more blame on Shannan, they might need to evaluate. I think CW is a complete liar and has no interest in truth. He is desperate to not seem to be the evil monster he proved himself to be. Who knows, he may even be hoping to impress the mistress he was so besotted with, almost like she is a drug he will do anything to obtain.

 

[mtnlites]

It concerns me that Shannon's family lawyer said the family is "evaluating next steps." If CW told the truth, would there be next steps to evaluate? If he tried to heap more blame on Shannan, they might need to evaluate. I think CW is a complete liar and has no interest in truth. He is desperate to not seem to be the evil monster he proved himself to be. Who knows, he may even be hoping to impress the mistress he was so besotted with, almost like she is a drug he will do anything to obtain.

If I were SW's family, I'd consider some civil suits for some of the slandering and libeling that have gone on. Between the podcasts, the YT videos, what's gone on in some of the FB groups...yep, I'd be evaluating my next steps as well.

 

[Seattle1]

It concerns me that Shannon's family lawyer said the family is "evaluating next steps." If CW told the truth, would there be next steps to evaluate? If he tried to heap more blame on Shannan, they might need to evaluate. I think CW is a complete liar and has no interest in truth. He is desperate to not seem to be the evil monster he proved himself to be. Who knows, he may even be hoping to impress the mistress he was so besotted with, almost like she is a drug he will do anything to obtain.

SW family lawyer spoke relative to their civil suit against CW, and I believe evaluating next steps was in reference on how to close their action by end of the year.

Also from their attorney's statement, I believe PF's complete cooperation was unexpected. I previously linked attorney interview upthread.

 

[Thepoet]

I will admit that I initially also pondered whether CW may have turned "Starkweather" on NK. After more reading on this and thinking about it, I also don't think this is the case.

Why now is a very good question. I don't know the answer to that, but I highly doubt CW has found the Lord, feels remorseful for what he did and now wants to be helpful. I do think the right people went to hear what he had to say. They know the real CW and they know when he's lying. They also know how to ferret information out of him that is closer to the truth.

I imagine that even if the new details provide answers to some of the questions Shanann's family has had, the new details are likely very disturbing to them. Those details might include a lot of things, and perhaps provide the order of the murders and what Shanann, Bella and Celeste were aware of before he killed them.

My thoughts are the delay in releasing this to the public might be to give Shanann's family some time to digest the new details before the rest of the world learns it and to perhaps help prepare them for yet another possible round of the CW fan club nastiness. Some of these folks seem to really enjoy any opportunity to cause Shanann's family more pain.

All JMO.

Very well said. Thank you. So true about those who want to bash Shanann and hurt her family!