CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #47 *ARREST*

[Kapua]

And considering that KK didn't start cooperating until her Dec. 20th interview when she revealed all this info, it's possible the metal bin at the transfer station had already taken to the recyclers. Really though, the most important piece that needs to be recovered now is the melted tote. This will surely seal the case if it contains KB's remains. I still think they have a strong case but it only takes one not so intuitive juror to spoil it.

One not so intuitive juror can cause a mistrial. It would take 12 complete morons to acquit.

 

[Hatfield]

Hatfield!! See the tanks in Pommy's video above. Both tanks
have what looks like 'shot' holes in the sides of tanks.
Maybe they were used for burning before this.
Check at .47 and 2.10 and 3.09 on the video.
that's why there's no water in the tanks.

Yes, it sure does look like a gunshot hole or two in the sides. If they ever used the tanks to burn anything you would want some side airflow to get into the tank.

When I am not burning in my open fire pit and just have a few limbs to burn, then I use a much smaller 55 gallon drum and I have about 15 bullet holes all around the drum at various heights starting near the bottom. You need good side airflow to help the fire stay lit and get a good burn.

The reason a gun is used to shoot holes in the drum is it is much quicker and easier to get holes in a drum or tank like that. I tried using a drill on my 55 gallon drum and the metal was way too thick to drill through. Those larger galvanized tanks are probably not as thick but still it is so much quicker to just blast some holes in them.

 

[Kapua]

Yes, it sure does look like a gunshot hole or two in the sides. If they ever used the tanks to burn anything you would want some side airflow to get into the tank.

When I am not burning in my open fire pit and just have a few limbs to burn, then I use a much smaller 55 gallon drum and I have about 15 bullet holes all around the drum at various heights starting near the bottom. You need good side airflow to help the fire stay lit and get a good burn.

The reason a gun is used to shoot holes in the drum is it is much quicker and easier to get holes in a drum or tank like that. I tried using a drill on my 55 gallon drum and the metal was way too thick to drill through. Those larger galvanized tanks are probably not as thick but still it is so much quicker to just blast some holes in them.

I wonder if that's where the missing bullet from KKL's friend's gun went. MOO

 

[yawningreyhound]

Where I live, we take all our trash to the transfer station and before going in are required to state what we're dumping and then we are directed to the appropriate area or bin #. The metal never goes to the landfill. Once the bin is full it's taken to the recycling company where it is sorted. @Snowsnake mentioned American Recyclers in Colorado Springs as a possibility. I'm guessing PF got rid of it during the 10 days he was NOT a suspect.

this made me think a little...like WASN'T PF a suspect from Minute #l? LE knows how these cases usually play out and I would think PF would've had 24 hour watch on him once Cheryl called LE. But maybe they DID have a watch on him....but then again, it wasn't LE that noticed PF at the transfer station. We don't think he dumped stuff that day, do we? LE supposedly checked immediately upon learning of the visit to the station but I've never heard if or what they found.

 

[susiQ]

One not so intuitive juror can cause a mistrial. It would take 12 complete morons to acquit.

Very true. What are the odds of getting 12 morons on one jury? I'd love to sit in on the jury selection process for this trial

 

[yawningreyhound]

My guess is that Ma F found it and questioned PF about it and PF called KK to tell her that Ma F found it and it became part of KK's interview when she decided to start telling the truth, or at least some of the truth. I somehow doubt we'll ever know the ENTIRE truth.

Good reasoning...... And it must've been quite the rod to catch SF's attention, I'm musing. I was at first thinking rebar. Now I'm rethinking to something way more substantial.

 

[ajaylee]

My guess is that Ma F found it and questioned PF about it and PF called KK to tell her that Ma F found it and it became part of KK's interview when she decided to start telling the truth, or at least some of the truth. I somehow doubt we'll ever know the ENTIRE truth.

Even if PF testifies, I don't think we'll ever know the whole truth. Even if we did, we might not recognize it, because so much of what they did just makes no sense.

I would be curious to know what notes PF took at the first hearing. If he doesn't testify, I guess we'll have to try to guess what he was questioning/challenging by the questions the defense asks.

That said, in a trial like this, what is the point of nitpicking small stuff if you are clearly guilty of the main crime? I'd really like to hear PF's version of events from start to finish. He must have given LE some kind of story once they exposed his the first lies about his whereabouts on Thanksgiving Day. Or did he just clam up and refuse to talk to them after that?

When KK found out about KB and the baby, she bought baby clothes and confronted PF about Baby K, product of a relationship she knew nothing about. It seemed a slightly catty female thing to do - don't confront him, just act like "oh, heard you had a baby you didn't tell me about, how sweet, here's some presents". IIRC, at that time, she said he was angry and wouldn't talk - presumably because he didn't want to admit he'd been seeing two women at the same time.

Unfortunately, at some point he did start discussing KB and Baby K with KK, probably once he realized she wasn't going to dump him after finding out he'd been seeing another woman and fathering a child behind her back. That's when he probably realized just how far KK might go to try to hang on to him.

imho!

 

[susiQ]

this made me think a little...like WASN'T PF a suspect from Minute #l? LE knows how these cases usually play out and I would think PF would've had 24 hour watch on him once Cheryl called LE. But maybe they DID have a watch on him....but then again, it wasn't LE that noticed PF at the transfer station. We don't think he dumped stuff that day, do we? LE supposedly checked immediately upon learning of the visit to the station but I've never heard if or what they found.

No, because he told CB lies and he wasn't even on LE's radar until the well check search, iirc, Dec. 2nd? After that, I'm sure he was a suspect. That gave him 10 days prior to get rid of stuff. My point was, they didn't have any "details" of how this went down until the Dec. 20th interview with KK. They wouldn't have known what to look for until then. On the 21st of Dec. after PF's arrest, KK took LE on a "tour" of the condo, ranchette and Nash Ranch to lead them to evidence.

 

[ajaylee]

Very true. What are the odds of getting 12 morons on one jury? I'd love to sit in on the jury selection process for this trial

I worry about one lone juror, someone watching PF sitting quietly, no idea of the anger that regularly surfaces. If he doesn't take the stand, the focus will be on KK, the shameless adulteress who repeatedly lied to friends and family, involved friends in her coverups (driving MG's car, asking MG to lie to KK's husband if need be, giving KB's firearm to someone and lying about its provenance), a woman who drove 800 miles round trip for a booty call - and not a single mention of PF ever getting in his truck and driving to see her.

KB? She's not there to defend herself, and it's really hard to prove a negative. If the defense suggests she was depressed, drugs, alcohol, threatening herself with a gun - it's difficult to disprove allegations like these, particularly because KB apparently didn't have time to make a lot of friends after she moved to Colorado.

And all the while, PF will be sitting there working his forlorn shy cowboy look.

It only takes one juror who focuses on faces and perceived personalities instead of the incontrovertible evidence. I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of a juror redisposed to find PF innocent. There shouldn't be such a juror, but it happens.

The solicitations are a perfect example. If I'm in a mindset that challenges every piece of evidence, yeah, based on what we have now, these go out the window. Absent other evidence, KK could have made them up.

 

[SandyQLS]

Just a case of CYA. She knew she was in WP on those dates and she suspected LE knew too. I'm not convinced she was "solicited" by PF. Unless LE have specific texts that clearly show he solicited her, it's just her word and we know how reliable that is. Regardless, the tale has been spun and given some of the inconsistencies, I think it will unravel. PF's defence attorney will make sure of that. She wants everyone to believe she was just a poor lovesick puppy and wanted to help PF deliver baby K from that horribly abusive mother that burnt her little hand with an iron and slammed her hand in the refrigerator. Ugggh. These two monsters make me sick. No doubt PF did the deed, but KK wanted it as well, she just didn't have the stomach to follow through. I don't think it had anything to do with conscience, or she would have reported it before they came looking for her. I suspect the deal was KK would do it because they figured LE would never be able to tie her to it, you know, they were SOOO smart with that burner phone. Not too bright those two. I also suspect if SHE had done it and LE fingered HIM for it, he would have thrown her under the bus in a heartbeat. They really do deserve each other. I just can't buy the solicitation narrative. This was a conspiracy to commit murder. Just because she ratted out PF, that does not mean she isn't lying about other things.

I agree with your post about the solicitations. KK's accusations, if not backed up by audio recordings, texts, emails, or love letters in PF's handwriting with his fingerprints - are just the accusations of a known liar who completes every admission if her actions with "PF made me do it" because she is in CYA mode. It's not enough for me.

Take away 3 solicitations and the tacked-on sentence enhancers, that leaves the dueling murder charges. Posters are more convinced of the Pros case than the Pros. The Pros is not sure if PF committed the murder or hired someone to robbery/murder.

What if they offerred PF 2nd degree murder to make all the rest go away?

 

[susiQ]

Good reasoning...... And it must've been quite the rod to catch SF's attention, I'm musing. I was at first thinking rebar. Now I'm rethinking to something way more substantial.

I'm guessing a crowbar. That would be substantial enough. Maybe there wasn't a place to hide it at the gate and PF wasn't around to pass it off? I'm glad SF found it. She'll have to testify to that.

 

[Dave F.]

T


The only stock tank that makes sense is the round galvanized. Three foot round holds 101 gallons of water and the four foot round holds 180 gallons of water. The oval tanks are only two feet wide which could present a immediate containment problem. I don’t think PF thought the whole burn process all the way through. The tank may have been disposed off at a place in Colorado Springs called American Recyle. It would have been crushed up ASAP.
As a side note outside cremation is allowed in Colorado usually by permit from the Coroner. It seems to be more common in the Crestone area.

KKL told LE it was a round 100 gallon tank. The 3 ft dia by 2 ft tall 101 gallon most fits her description. Yes, it would be difficult to position the tote in the container; but not impossible. When I was growing up in Colorado Springs everyone burned their household trash in either approved concrete incinerators or 55 gallon oil drums. Our house had the 55 gal drums, and it was my duty daily for years until municipal collection was initiated to do the daily burn. I never had any trouble starting a fire or keeping it going. A "calm" in southern Colorado is equal to at least a 5-15 mph wind elsewhere, a gusty breeze works just like a blacksmith's bellows, and the humidity ranges somewhere between "arid" and "gates of hell". That is the reason why a small forest fire can escalate to a major disaster so quickly. IMO

 

[susiQ]

Even if PF testifies, I don't think we'll ever know the whole truth. Even if we did, we might not recognize it, because so much of what they did just makes no sense.

I would be curious to know what notes PF took at the first hearing. If he doesn't testify, I guess we'll have to try to guess what he was questioning/challenging by the questions the defense asks.

That said, in a trial like this, what is the point of nitpicking small stuff if you are clearly guilty of the main crime? I'd really like to hear PF's version of events from start to finish. He must have given LE some kind of story once they exposed his the first lies about his whereabouts on Thanksgiving Day. Or did he just clam up and refuse to talk to them after that?

When KK found out about KB and the baby, she bought baby clothes and confronted PF about Baby K, product of a relationship she knew nothing about. It seemed a slightly catty female thing to do - don't confront him, just act like "oh, heard you had a baby you didn't tell me about, how sweet, here's some presents". IIRC, at that time, she said he was angry and wouldn't talk - presumably because he didn't want to admit he'd been seeing two women at the same time.

Unfortunately, at some point he did start discussing KB and Baby K with KK, probably once he realized she wasn't going to dump him after finding out he'd been seeing another woman and fathering a child behind her back. That's when he probably realized just how far KK might go to try to hang on to him.

imho!

After his initial lies to LE after the welfare check, he clammed up and his attorney spoke for him. They took his phone on Dec. 4th while in Colorado Springs with his brother SF2. I don't think we'll ever hear his side of the story. He's really not smart enough to concoct a story that the DA can't dismantle with the evidence they already have. His attorney certainly has his work cut out for him.

 

[SandyQLS]

Since DNA doesn't seem to be an issue in this case, I'm kind of mystified as to what this could be. All I can think of is a drop of something found on or in his truck, thus confirming he transported Kelsey's remains in it.

I think it's MG's gun.

KB's gun has been handled by everyone KB, PF, KK and MP. And no word that it had been fired, but it could have been

MG's gun was handled by MG and an unknown person, maybe KK or PF, who likely fired it. If KB's DNA were found inside that gun barrel, it's a game changer. And they would swab exterior crevices for minute traces of DNA skin cells, minerals, touch DNA) to see who fired it. One process soaks the object (casings in an article) in a solution to recover trace DNA, so just wiping a gun 'clean' is not enough.

 

[Reachingfornettles]

I wonder if that's where the missing bullet from KKL's friend's gun went. MOO

Or to supply air to the tote? Same as the barrel.. JMO

 

[pcrum12]

The burn ring is visible in the KOAA TV drone wideo of PF's ranch taken December 14th, and that exact trough, or one of the others that he had just like it, is also visible. It was of similar construction to this sales page:
Hastings 22GA Steel Round Stock Tank - 3' x 2' - 101 Gallon
The burn spot was the faint round ring below the point of the arrow in this still shot from the KOAA drone video:

If that’s the spot wonder what he did with the trough or did the police take it.

 

[Kapua]

After his initial lies to LE after the welfare check, he clammed up and his attorney spoke for him. They took his phone on Dec. 4th while in Colorado Springs with his brother SF2. I don't think we'll ever hear his side of the story. He's really not smart enough to concoct a story that the DA can't dismantle with the evidence they already have. His attorney certainly has his work cut out for him.

He certainly does. I wouldn't take that job for a king's ransom. Maybe he can use the old "abducted by hippies in a white van" defense that Mark Geragos used in the Scott Peterson trial.

 

[susiQ]

I agree with your post about the solicitations. KK's accusations, if not backed up by audio recordings, texts, emails, or love letters in PF's handwriting with his fingerprints - are just the accusations of a known liar who completes every admission if her actions with "PF made me do it" because she is in CYA mode. It's not enough for me.

Take away 3 solicitations and the tacked-on sentence enhancers, that leaves the dueling murder charges. Posters are more convinced of the Pros case than the Pros. The Pros is not sure if PF committed the murder or hired someone to robbery/murder.

What if they offerred PF 2nd degree murder to make all the rest go away?

I don't think they'll offer him anything. Personally, I'm convinced THEY are convinced he did the deed. No doubt, whatsoever. I think the cell phone evidence supports it as well never mind his other lies. However, I agree KK's involvement is much more than she is letting on. JMO

 

[ilovechili]

Sam Kraemer Tweets From Preliminary Hearing:

"Defense doesn't have an opinion either way. Sheila's attorney says he's never seen this come up in a preliminary hearing. May says she has relevant evidence to this case (motive, certain dates when Krystal Kenny was here).

May says she knows about a defendant showing up at her house on Thanksgiving. I'm assuming that's Kenney, since Patrick lives with her"

These tweets still exist unchanged. Both the part in parantheses mentions KK and the very next tweet mentions a defendant on Thanksgiving. If his mother was going to testify about PF showing up at her house at Thanksgiving, I would think the defense would have had a strong opinion...

Just a few of the reasons some still wonder.

Edited changed he to she/corrected.

 

[susiQ]

He certainly does. I wouldn't take that job for a king's ransom. Maybe he can use the old "abducted by hippies in a white van" defense that Mark Geragos used in the Scott Peterson trial.

I don't think PF's attorney will need to go that far, LOL. KK supplied him with a treasure trove of possibilities. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in his office
ed:gr