GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[esayer]

Oh, it sounded like you were blaming Shan'ann for what you say is his anger at her. And, by extension, blaming her for the murders because he was angry at her.

When did CW text to NK during SW's funeral that he was overseas? I'm confused about who you say texted during SW's funeral that he was overseas, and what pics you're referring to.

Sounds like they got Scott Peterson mixed up with CW

 

[Deleted member 239597]

Yes, CERVI 319. GPS coordinates 40.21624374, -104.36667 Google Maps

I might look into that more...but to me this case is done and CW is serving sentence so it's mote at this point, the importance being for me only to get my facts straight. Thank you for helping with that. I only looked at CW and SP cases to understand how trials work to begin with as there is another one that has been going on right now closer to my heart...as far as following from HOUR one that it happened. If what you said about that is true then might change my view A LITTLE about this Mistress.... To me she doesn't factor in and never did in my books. I was just interested in the family dynamics as people have affairs all the time... THAT one thing POSTED....that I've not read yet might be very telling to me personally.

 

[WhatDidYouDo]

He saves face by lying and he has proven over and over again that saving face is very important to him and a concept he most definitely understands as he uses the same phraseology to refer to some of NK's actions. That being said, I fully believe he was angry. How could you strangle anyone without anger coming out? I tend to lean towards it being the kind of anger that would be categorized as frustration/loss of control but NOT as a reaction to something she said. The divorce conversation was ongoing by his own admission. She discussed needing to move with the children because she couldn't afford it weeks before by his own admission. They talked Colorado's 50/50.

He wasn't triggered - he was pissed off.

 

[Tranquileyes]

I have also thought the same thing.

And if CW was not planning on an explosion, I think he was going to put SW somewhere else.

I think what initially completely messed up his plan, was he he found out that his coworkers were on their way to the site.

That knowledge made him have to frantically figure out where to put SW. So he had to start digging a hole and he ran out of time.

Then the dominoes just started falling one by one...

Also.. Remember his insistence about going to work. It was probably because he needed to do some more cover up.

 

[kaykay543]

There is huge reason, at this point, to impute all the emotion to him that I do describe because his own testimony makes such a claim. To me you all are still trying to prove he's lying. He already has proven that he is very capable of lying. However, at this point, objectively looking at it, what does this man have to gain by lying?

I shortened the quote. IMO CW is still lying because he doesn't want anyone (especially his family and MK) to know that this was all premeditated. He still wants people to think this was a "rage killing"

 

[esayer]

He saves face by lying and he has proven over and over again that saving face is very important to him and a concept he most definitely understands as he uses the same phraseology to refer to some of NK's actions. That being said, I fully believe he was angry. How could you strangle anyone without anger coming out? I tend to lean towards it being the kind of anger that would be categorized as frustration/loss of control but NOT as a reaction to something she said. The divorce conversation was ongoing by his own admission. She discussed needing to move with the children because she couldn't afford it weeks before by his own admission. They talked Colorado's 50/50.

He wasn't triggered - he was pissed off.

That and he said he never gets angry. Sounds like this is a case of a man that has pushed his true feelings about everything down so much, it all came out in one horrible moment and snowballed from there.

Also: CW is extremely concerned about what others think of him. Throughout his 5 hour interview, he says he's sad that everyone is now going to judge him for what he did. But he sees himself as a benevolent man with 'reasons' and those 'reasons' are basically everyone else was pushing him to act in ways he didn't want to, therefore the murders aren't really his fault, but actually SWs fault for 'taking him from his family' and for 'making him do LaVel for his family' and NKs fault for 'taking me from my family how could she do that SHE KNEW I WAS MARRIED'. He continuously shifted blame over and over again, trying to make himself look like an innocent sad persecuted man.

 

[nanwv]

"He wasn't triggered - he was pissed off."

This whole "had sex with SW" thing bothers me. If he was so pissed off and full of rage would't the sex be more "aggressive", if you know what I mean. Not that I believe anything this guy says, but if true they had physical relations, I seriously doubt it was anything close to loving. More in the crime category.

 

[Tranquileyes]

I think he was going to put all of them in the tanks and blow it all up also. I guess he thought if he blew it up it would look like and accident from the "leak" and the bodies would be incinerated by the heat from burning oil and gas...sound familiar?

He certainly jumped on the opportunity to check the leak on Friday prior to the murders and came equipped with the gas can. Something tripped up his plans. Maybe time..

 

[PommyMommy]

I might look into that more...but to me this case is done and CW is serving sentence so it's mote at this point, the importance being for me only to get my facts straight. Thank you for helping with that. I only looked at CW and SP cases to understand how trials work to begin with as there is another one that has been going on right now closer to my heart...as far as following from HOUR one that it happened. If what you said about that is true then might change my view A LITTLE about this Mistress.... To me she doesn't factor in and never did in my books. I was just interested in the family dynamics as people have affairs all the time... THAT one thing POSTED....that I've not read yet might be very telling to me personally.

If you're interested in how trials work, this probably isn't the case to delve into, (especially at thread #70!), since there was no trial. There's a whole forum for trials here that might interest you: Trials

I have to disagree that NK doesn't factor in here. CW himself said that he would never have thought his marriage was bad if he hadn’t met her, and that he should have gone with JL to the Bronco's game and told NK he couldn’t find a babysitter. He said if he had done so, it may have put him on a different trajectory. And, that's just briefly his remarks from ONE interview (the latest one).

MOO

 

[NuttMegg]

What was the reason the LE brought Sandy up like they did? It was kind of like bad mouthing her. I was a little taken aback by that.

Can you refer to the portion or timestamp of the interview when the detectives badmouthed Sandy? I missed that. Are you talking about CW's recent confession?

 

[Nikynoo]

He saves face by lying and he has proven over and over again that saving face is very important to him and a concept he most definitely understands as he uses the same phraseology to refer to some of NK's actions. That being said, I fully believe he was angry. How could you strangle anyone without anger coming out? I tend to lean towards it being the kind of anger that would be categorized as frustration/loss of control but NOT as a reaction to something she said. The divorce conversation was ongoing by his own admission. She discussed needing to move with the children because she couldn't afford it weeks before by his own admission. They talked Colorado's 50/50.

He wasn't triggered - he was pissed off.

Yes, I agree. I also don't think he was angry with SW. IMO, he was angry with himself.

 

[NuttMegg]

That and he said he never gets angry. Sounds like this is a case of a man that has pushed his true feelings about everything down so much, it all came out in one horrible moment and snowballed from there.

Also: CW is extremely concerned about what others think of him. Throughout his 5 hour interview, he says he's sad that everyone is now going to judge him for what he did. But he sees himself as a benevolent man with 'reasons' and those 'reasons' are basically everyone else was pushing him to act in ways he didn't want to, therefore the murders aren't really his fault, but actually SWs fault for 'taking him from his family' and for 'making him do LaVel for his family' and NKs fault for 'taking me from my family how could she do that SHE KNEW I WAS MARRIED'. He continuously shifted blame over and over again, trying to make himself look like an innocent sad persecuted man.

Didn't he say that it wouldn't be fair to judge a man regarding one "moment" of his life? Sorry, I can't face going thru that interview a third time to find the timestamp.

 

[Deleted member 239597]

I shortened the quote. IMO CW is still lying because he doesn't want anyone (especially his family and MK) to know that this was all premeditated. He still wants people to think this was a "rage killing"

I don't think it was a "rage" killing. Meaning I do not think at all, IMHO, and OBJECTIVELY looking at both sides. Isn't a "rage" killing spur of the moment. I believe he was pissed. I believe he was angry. I believe he does have a mental illness. I believe he lost control (in the moment of what he was doing; but not so much to classify it as a rage killing). I believe he truly does have remorse for these murders other than remorse for getting caught (which I believe factors into it). I believe there was abuse too. I believe the blame game was being thrown around. I believe the children were highly victimized by two adults not getting along and then SW being murdered at the hands of CW and at least one of the children were old enough to comprehend what has going on if not both of them able to understand (the third victimized before he had a chance to be born). (BTW: my previous comment isn't to suggest SW was abusive, or deserving of what happened to her. I do not believe she was abusive to those kids nor to CW either). I do believe that CW and SW had arguments whether it be in front of the kids or within earshot that still victimizes children witnessing said abuse that can be explosive by one or more parties (in this case I do believe CW had an explosive temper with outbursts).

ABUSERS: Will NOT let outsiders know just how abusive they are. Behind closed doors is where the abuse usually occurs. Abusers tend to try and make others believe the person they are abusing are crazy or deserving. They also are guilty of "crazy-making" with the victim of the abuse. SW was literally going nuts trying to figure all out reasons. Many abusers will use sex to manipulate those they abuse too. Hence, having sex with her right before she is murdered. To the world: Abusers put on a good front.

I believe ABUSE played a key role in the fact that SW was murdered. She wasn't conforming to what HE wanted to control. THAT is where I believe his anger came from; The inability to control his wife.

Even the argument between SW and her MIL about the nuts (two big people not being able to 'get along') I believe for the most part SW was controlling for GOOD reason: to run her house, and, to get things done, and, for the health and well-being of ALL her family. I do believe that CW thought SW was controlling (his comment as to wanting to at least be able to hang a picture on the wall without her telling him he can), I do believe CW's MOTHER was abusively controlling and that childhood played a key factor in his actions as an undercurrent, I believe this affair was CW being to stupid to understand that things are not "Greener on the other side of the fence". I believe most of the so-called "love" in this affair was based on lust and not love, I believe the affair was just a "reason" for CW to get away from a relationship he had no control in. (Abusers want to be in control).

If people are still trying to figure out the premeditation part....understood. With something that was shown to me earlier I still have yet to read, I may change my view on that. I do not believe CW, if indeed he planned this murder was too brilliant (he left all of SW belongings behind and then suggested she was merely missing and thinking that she had taken the two kids and run off? Even the parents were not too bright if indeed they were thinking that SW was trying to spite CW by taking off). To me that doesn't resonate.

As far as the anger he describes, if he did have that kind of anger in him, I am trying to objectively look at it from the stand point that I do have with my own personal experience with it.

 

[MsBetsy]

I most certainly am.

Objectively: in a way that is not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.

I see a lot of comments based off of personal feelings or opinions. Every bit of speculation of what happened in that 45 minute drive is all based off of personal feelings or opinions (whether it's the "experts" doing it or someone who isn't an "expert"). CW gave his testimony to what happened and in it he said he was angry. To the point "he's never felt that kind of anger before" and "that wasn't like him it was like someone else was controlling him". He and those girls were the only one's alive in the truck from point A to point B. No one is taking his word for it that he was angry.

So I'm not really measuring a person's actions based solely on my experiences here I am basing them off of his own testimony as to what happened as opposed to thinking the majority is right in this case. I use my own experience with the emotion of anger to draw off what Chris, himself, has said. We only have our own experiences and our own thoughts to place in this situation if we take the testimony of Chris Watts out. So to say others are looking at the case "objectively" is a bit obtuse.

No one has bothered to factor in that anger that CW said he had into the equation of his thoughts into that truck. When someone does indeed do that then it would be looked at as being objective.

Now if you claimed it's objective reasoning then that would be a different story. Objective Reasoning means reasoning according to a set of logical and objective standards, while subjective thinking refers to reasoning without objective standards.

But remember too NOTHING about this case, or any MURDER CASE, goes along the standards that there any sets of LOGIC behind any of his actions. None.

There is huge reason, at this point, to impute all the emotion to him that I do describe because his own testimony makes such a claim. To me you all are still trying to prove he's lying. He already has proven that he is very capable of lying. However, at this point, objectively looking at it, what does this man have to gain by lying?

I believe Chris Watts carried a lot of anger and resentment around with him his whole life. He just did not have the ability to recognize it or the tools to express it appropriately.
His coach said he never even showed any anger on the football field. Everyone who knew him claimed they never saw him angry, including his family and his wife.
I think much of his resentment stems from a dysfunctional childhood, and an overbearing mother. He left home after high school and never returned. He never got to fix what was broken.
Shanann could have helped him, if she only knew! He could have gotten help in so many ways.
But he was so good at learning how to mimic normal behavior he never removed his mask. He enjoyed being adored by his wife and children. He liked being the "good guy" to all his work buddies. His father was his hero, just like his children saw him as their hero.

By the time Shannann and the kids left for North Carolina, he may have already felt that he was no longer adored by his wife and kids. Then along comes someone new and exciting, who makes him feel like he never felt before.
He goes to join his family for the last week in NC, and everything falls apart. He desperately wants things to be okay between Shanann and his parents, but he doesn't know how.
It is around this time Shanann realizes CW is unhappy with the marriage. He finally gets around to telling her he wished he could just hang up a picture on the wall.
She knows her marriage is in danger, and makes all the necessary steps to fix it. I believe that if he had never met Nickol, Shanann and the kids would still be alive today. But he had already made up his mind. He was alienated by his parents and his family, and the only solution in his mind was to start fresh with a whole new person who loved him. By this time he has already distanced himself from his family. Even now he says, "Was I ever a dad at all?"

I do think the murder was his final, and possibly only act of rage in his entire life. But it wasn't a sudden unexpected rage that came out of nowhere, from some sudden "trigger." It was a simmering rage that began in childhood, and finally came to a boiling point.
And it was his detachment from his emotions, and his inability to feel empathy that made it easy for him to eliminate his family. He had no use for them anymore. Imo

 

[pinkie60]

He saves face by lying and he has proven over and over again that saving face is very important to him and a concept he most definitely understands as he uses the same phraseology to refer to some of NK's actions. That being said, I fully believe he was angry. How could you strangle anyone without anger coming out? I tend to lean towards it being the kind of anger that would be categorized as frustration/loss of control but NOT as a reaction to something she said. The divorce conversation was ongoing by his own admission. She discussed needing to move with the children because she couldn't afford it weeks before by his own admission. They talked Colorado's 50/50.

He wasn't triggered - he was pissed off.

Like shannans dad said the affair changed him. All the positive feelings of love that he felt for his wife and family turned to resentment and anger and he became very hardened, cold and calculating. The family he once adored had no value to him and because he didn't value them he was able to get rid of them. I think with every murder, why couldn't the murderer think of how killing someone would affect others and not want to bring so much pain on them but the simple answer is killers don't have empathy
What it boiled down to he got rid of them for convenience and financial gain for himself

 

[NuttMegg]

I believe the children were highly victimized by two adults not getting along

SBM There really isn't any proof that SW/CW were not getting along before NK pursued him.

There is zero proof that either of the children were victimized or abused in the family, until CW murdered them.

 

[kkdj]

"He wasn't triggered - he was pissed off."

This whole "had sex with SW" thing bothers me. If he was so pissed off and full of rage would't the sex be more "aggressive", if you know what I mean. Not that I believe anything this guy says, but if true they had physical relations, I seriously doubt it was anything close to loving. More in the crime category.

I actually don't believe they had sex that night. I think he just wanted others to think that of him and wanted to get that message to NK to get a reaction from her. moo

 

[Deleted member 239597]

That and he said he never gets angry. Sounds like this is a case of a man that has pushed his true feelings about everything down so much, it all came out in one horrible moment and snowballed from there.

Also: CW is extremely concerned about what others think of him. Throughout his 5 hour interview, he says he's sad that everyone is now going to judge him for what he did. But he sees himself as a benevolent man with 'reasons' and those 'reasons' are basically everyone else was pushing him to act in ways he didn't want to, therefore the murders aren't really his fault, but actually SWs fault for 'taking him from his family' and for 'making him do LaVel for his family' and NKs fault for 'taking me from my family how could she do that SHE KNEW I WAS MARRIED'. He continuously shifted blame over and over again, trying to make himself look like an innocent sad persecuted man.

This is classic for an abuser to do.

 

[mickey2942]

I shortened the quote. IMO CW is still lying because he doesn't want anyone (especially his family and MK) to know that this was all premeditated. He still wants people to think this was a "rage killing"

I believe that every single thing that CW says is a lie. Why bother to even listen to him? The fact that he continues to try to justify his actions is beyond comprehension.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Honestly, it sounds like you're the one who's measuring this person's actions by your own inner life. I think a lot of people are trying to understand objectively what these murders look like in terms of how the people who work in the field do. There's no reason I can see to impute all the emotion to him that you're describing. The investigators themselves were troubled by his longstanding lack of emotion.

When someone has done the incredibly inhumane things he did, there is likely to be a harsh assessment. That is about coming to terms with reality.

And as for something that came up quite a few posts ago, it is not the case that just anyone is capable of murder. The etymology of the term murder is about not just killing, but doing so originally in a secret and dishonorable way. Although society has evolved on exactly what makes killing dishonorable, the law still reflects that killing in self-defense is different, as is killing by accident, or killing by negligence. Murder is something different, and I can guarantee you that I'm not capable of it, nor are most people I know. It is not normal, to go through with murder runs counter to basic human instincts, and that is why the very highest punishments are reserved for murder. To do it to your wife and your kids is still another level of horror that most people cannot wrap their heads around and would be entirely incapable of doing.

Thank you for this, I grimaced every time I read “anyone under the right circumstances is capable of murder”. Like you, I know I am not, nor my husband or the majority of my friends. I have one friend who walked in on a “friend” committing a horrific sexual assault on his young daughter. After a good beating, he called the police , he refrained from killing him. I consider that in the category of the “right circumstance” and I would consider that a true rage killing yet he controlled himself.