Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #13 *ARREST*

[Woollybear]

How do you know there was no forensic evidence in his car. He told his sister he'd given a crying girl a lift.

Sorry, sloppy writing - what I meant was significant forensic evidence, such as blood, etc. Otherwise they would presumably have charged him. Which leads to the assumption that if the suspect did assault LS, it was not in the car.

 

[Woollybear]

Hello and welcome. Have you read through the earlier twelve threads about Libby? I ask as some of the points you raise have been discussed already.

Hi Cherwell - I may well have missed things. I was just trying to look at it for myself with new eyes and get it straight in my own mind. Don't feel under any obligation to reply.

 

[Winterbells]

I press my fob about 20 times it seems to open my doors (I know once opens my driver door, twice to open all doors) but I’m just an idiot, no ryhme or reason for it. I just do it and it’s habit. (EXCEPT if I’m in a parking lot by myself etc. I try to be more cautious being a woman by myself or alone with my child. Long time member of Websleuths knows better!)

I can say my mothers fob is finicky and never works right and she has to press hers many times to work even right. Could be his habit, could be nothing nefarious at all. Just an observation and anecdotal of course. And American cars, not sure how European are at all. If there is even a difference.

Oh yes, I can relate to what you're saying. Before the fob on my car key broke altogether, I could just never remember how many flashes meant what, so half the time I used to physically check anyway, once I'd made it flash half a dozen times. Now I'm reduced to having to use a key to lock and unlock... like a common peasant.

 

[Winterbells]

If the perpetrator ends up pleading guilty, will this mean that we will never know the facts about what actually happened to poor Libby and be left to wonder about everything we've talked about here, forever?

 

[LastSeenWearing]

You're welcome.

I do wonder why she was sat on the bench rather than the bus stop a few feet away. That would've been lit, at least:
Google Maps

Maybe because she wasn't actually waiting to get on a bus as the bus from that bus stop would have gone out of the city away from her house. Maybe she needed to sit down as she was struggling to walk as a result of the drink and then if she saw any friend getting off a bus she could join them. Maybe she didn't want a bus to stop unnecessarily so didn't sit at the actual bus stop or she may have thought it too late for a bus but needed to sit so chose the bench

 

[Sammie1970]

Possible he knew her address? Since he had previously been on her street before, practicing his "hobby", it's possible he has seen, watched or stalked her without her realizing or recognizing him. I am thinking he recognized her, made a move and all went badly from there. Then since he knew her by sight, put the address in the satnav to cover his tracks.

JMO

I agree, I think the sat nav was just to add to the fact he said she wanted to go home. I think everything he said to his sister was lies to cover himself. I don’t believe any of it.

 

[rodyarodya]

If the perpetrator ends up pleading guilty, will this mean that we will never know the facts about what actually happened to poor Libby and be left to wonder about everything we've talked about here, forever?

Can only speak for myself but if he pleads guilty, it'll mean he's behind bars and Libby is at rest. The family will have to try and reach some form of closure, and may never. What more could we possibly discuss at that point? The ins and outs would seem pretty mawkish at that point. My own opinion, of course.

 

[bos]

Arguido status is when the police publicly declare someone an official suspect

As in

"Pawel Relowicz remains a person of interest"

As far as i know, he was questioned for 4 days and not charged with anything in relation to abduction

So by the letter of the P.A.C.E rules i would have to assume that they mean that he is a "person of interest" for a different offence to abduction?

Because given that the P.A.C.E clock ran out on them ...that kind of means that what they are saying publicly is not supported by any firm evidence

That is not to even touch upon just how much publicly announcing an uncharged person as a suspect might have on his right to a fair trial

The changes in police bail enshrined in the Policing & Crime Act 2017 may make the “released under investigation” thing clearer. Previously, if arrested but not charged and investigations were ongoing, you’d be released on police bail which meant conditions to adhere to including regular reappearances back at the police station. Released under investigation does away with complying with conditions in exchange for freedom; the down side is you remain of interest indefinitely.

Are you “under investigation”? The changes to Police Bail | Lawtons UK

 

[Winterbells]

Can only speak for myself but if he pleads guilty, it'll mean he's behind bars and Libby is at rest. The family will have to try and reach some form of closure, and may never. What more could we possibly discuss at that point? The ins and outs would seem pretty mawkish at that point. My own opinion, of course.

I knew someone would say that. Personally, I find it hard to reach closure when I don't know the facts, but I know that many people feel the opposite way. All that matters, of course, is Libby's family and friends and I hope they see justice being done and soon.

 

[Sammie1970]

Maybe because she wasn't actually waiting to get on a bus as the bus from that bus stop would have gone out of the city away from her house. Maybe she needed to sit down as she was struggling to walk as a result of the drink and then if she saw any friend getting off a bus she could join them. Maybe she didn't want a bus to stop unnecessarily so didn't sit at the actual bus stop or she may have thought it too late for a bus but needed to sit so chose the bench

I always felt maybe grey beard helped her onto the bench and when the police said he had been ‘very helpful’ it was to Libby and not them, if that makes sense.

 

[Winterbells]

The changes in police bail enshrined in the Policing & Crime Act 2017 may make the “released under investigation” thing clearer. Previously, if arrested but not charged and investigations were ongoing, you’d be released on police bail which meant conditions to adhere to including regular reappearances back at the police station. Released under investigation does away with complying with conditions in exchange for freedom; the down side is you remain of interest indefinitely.

Are you “under investigation”? The changes to Police Bail | Lawtons UK

That's very interesting and thank you for posting it.

 

[Plod]

I suddenly can't shake the idea that Libby had injured herself in a fall between her house and the bench and he'd offered to take her to get help. That could explain the rather hard landing when entering the car that seems to take place in the CCTV.

Somebody quash that thinking for me, please.

I’ve just spent 20 minutes outside with a light coat on, waiting for a taxi. It’s 8degrees. I was shivering and suffering. Imagine how Libby must have been in her light clothing on a snowy night at end of January, plus drunk. I’d say she was probably facing onset of hypothermia and clouded her judgement to accept a lift from anyone. I wouldn’t be surprised if she’d fallen over on the snowy ground.

 

[floridagrrl]

I still can't believe a spider managed to block out the view on the cctv. I think there should be an ad on TV telling people to clean their CCTV cameras!

I still think it looks like a man getting into the passenger side, even though that makes no sense as there is no evidence to suggest that pr was working with anyone else. I just can't see bare legs getting into the car and they look like man's legs in dark trousers to me!

It’s amazing what all of us see differently. And of course that’s due to the spiderweb and it’s basically reduced to just shadows...I see a girl being pushed in the seat ever so subtly. Not like rough. But like “get in this seat now” type way. It took several several seconds for the person to get in the seat after the door opens. I see legs going back and forth (where others see something being tossed in, I see legs going across and back)

I could not imagine the police being so irresponsible in releasing this footage if they truly did not believe this was related to Libby. And henceforth (how British speak of me, you guys are rubbing off in a good way!) no one has certainly come forward to claim it was them in the footage. JMO

 

[Winterbells]

The something that some people see as an item getting tossed into the back of the car, or the footwell, looks to me like it's going on outside of the car, not inside... more like @floridagrrl 's analsyis (i.e. legs about to go in, but then retreating, then back in). I also see movement of the right arm of the passenger just as she's landed in her seat - possibly lifting the arm to reach over to her left for the seatbelt. Assuming this is Libby and she got into the car willingly, having been sold a story she trusted, I can see that it's possible she slipped just as she was getting into the car, hence the apparent kerfuffle at the passenger door. There was fresh snow on the ground at the time (you can see how there's no snow under the car as it drives off), so I can imagine how easy it would be to slip as you're trying to climb into a car. If she does in fact put on her seatbelt, this does make me think that at that point she wasn't under any kind of duress and had every reason (and right) to believe she was safe.
I know it goes without saying, but it makes me (and I'm sure all of us) so angry and outraged that someone can con another person into trusting them and do them and their loved ones the worst of all possible harm.

 

[PaddyOreally?]

The something that some people see as an item getting tossed into the back of the car, or the footwell, looks to me like it's going on outside of the car, not inside... more like @floridagrrl 's analsyis (i.e. legs about to go in, but then retreating, then back in). I also see movement of the right arm of the passenger just as she's landed in her seat - possibly lifting the arm to reach over to her left for the seatbelt. Assuming this is Libby and she got into the car willingly, having been sold a story she trusted, I can see that it's possible she slipped just as she was getting into the car, hence the apparent kerfuffle at the passenger door. There was fresh snow on the ground at the time (you can see how there's no snow under the car as it drives off), so I can imagine how easy it would be to slip as you're trying to climb into a car. If she does in fact put on her seatbelt, this does make me think that at that point she wasn't under any kind of duress and had every reason (and right) to believe she was safe.
I know it goes without saying, but it makes me (and I'm sure all of us) so angry and outraged that someone can con another person into trusting them and do them and their loved ones the worst of all possible harm.

In regards to the no snow under the car, does that imply that the car had been parked there for some time? Or would the running engine of the car have melted a thin layer of snow?

 

[Winterbells]

In regards to the no snow under the car, does that imply that the car had been parked there for some time? Or would the running engine of the car have melted a thin layer of snow?

I've thought about this, and it could be that the car had been parked there for some time and snow had fallen since it arrived, or that it had been parked in a space that had recently been vacated, hence it was clear of snow. I'm not sure if parking on top of snow would clear the entire space under the car of snow, even with the engine running, but others may disagree.

As it was a double yellow line and in front of a gate, I would have thought it unlikely that a car had previously been parked there for any length of time, but locals say that in small roads like that, drivers do park illegally without fear of a ticket, so I'm probably wrong. It doesn't look like thick snow and it doesn't seem to be falling during the cctv footage, but for it to settle on the road, as it has, does suggest there'd been recent snowfall that didn't land where the suspect car is positioned, for whatever reason.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

I think I'm the only one who is enamoured with the sluice.

Circles? On which side of the sluice was she murdered? Could a body go through the sluice over a period of 3 months? If a body went through the sluice, what would the body look like in the tide?

Never mind. Is the sluice opened and closed with the rain water table?

DBM.

 

[Winterbells]

just to add... I feel like the heat from a car engine would be chucked out the front and rear of the vehicle, rather than downwards?

 

[Winterbells]

Google Maps

Just googled Paull and it doesn't look that hard to get the shore of that huge river.
Town End Road, for example.

 

[Katykins]

On the spidercam footage, ITV said the car was parked there for approximately 20 minutes so I assume that to mean from between 11.45-11.52pm. Various MSM reports say grey beard happened between 11.40pm-11.45pm. This early article (8 Feb) from the Metro says grey beard “appeared to help her before leaving” so maybe that lends some weight to the fact she fell as that choice of words formulated from presumably watching TV indicates in my opinion that he was helping her in a way that was more than just asking if she was ok.

Libby Squire updates: Timeline of what we know so far about the missing Hull student | Metro News