Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #14 *ARREST*

[Loobyloo]

I've been re-reading this MSM report from 3 Feb:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-missing-libby-squire-screwdriver-13946457

It does clarify a couple of points that have been a bit lost in recent discussions:

1. Libby was dropped off by the taxi actually outside her house - article quotes her mum saying 'She got out of the taxi at her house. She was home'.

This adds to my sense that she may have been spotted by PR in her own street while he was hanging around planning his next 'project' - maybe that was even the point at which he noted her address in his phone/satnav for future reference (before trailing her to Bev Road etc.)

2. There's been some discussion here as to the exact nature of GB's 'help' - whether he was assisting Libby, or assisting the police. This early article makes it clear it was both:

'Officers put out an appeal on Friday to identify a mystery driver seen helping the 'drunk' student on the bench moments before she vanished.

They later confirmed he had been in contact and "really helped out" with their investigation.'​

Also interesting that the term used here is 'drunk' rather than 'distressed' - at what point did 'distressed' come into the description?

I'd actually gone to this article looking for the police statement about the hammer, screwdriver and lipgloss being 'relevant to another investigation' - wondering if they were linked to PR's other offending & might have fallen out of his car. Haven't found that quote yet but I need to get some sleep!!

 

[Miss_French]

I've been thinking about the disparity in timings from the 12:30am sighting of running man "alone, not looking back" and the later Croda CCTV "possible witnesses".

What if PR gets back to his Astra on Oak Rd. No car key.

Fallen from a pocket in his loose shorts whilst they were pulled lower/in a struggle? Possibly wastes time searching for it in the park before making his way to Raglan St to get his wife's/spare key.

Makes his way on foot back to the playing fields possibly with a torch (fishermen have torches?) to search for the incriminating original car key.

All this takes time hence the focussing of LE on the Croda CCTV and the extensive strimming of the park for an item that will not be destroyed by a powerstrimmer.

Also reinforces my belief that the Haworth CCTV footage release was OKed by LE possibly to put pressure on PR's wife as she may be a key witness to his comings and goings that night.

Any locals estimate the time needed for PR to do this on foot?

It's about a mile from the park to Raglan Street. However, phones have torches and virtually everyone I know carries a torch in their car.

The only thing about connecting these 2 men is why no appeal by police for the first man if he was in the park earlier and why, apparently, wasn't he seen on the same cctv camera? And the 2nd man was seen coming from the direction of the park; if he went into the park to look for something, wouldn't that have been shown, like the cyclist going 2 ways?

 

[Vermont24]

Where is this CCTV that shows LS in the car then not in the car en route to/from ORPFs?

What I remember seeing is her sitting on the bench, getting up, fidgeting and sitting back down. But surely could be from something else.

I'm sure I remember seeing it somewhere too... strange that it would have been taken down from every possible source online though...

You absolutely, unequivocally have not seen this footage. It hasn't been released into the public domain at any point.

 

[Newthoughts]

I might be totally wrong but PR does not seem to me to be the type who would read up on anything.
He seems to me to be an opportunist who lives off his wits and relies on physical strengths rather than intellectual abilities.

I disagree there about planning and lack of premeditation. In my opinion he's thought about this and planned it. Just my opinion.

Consider his other alleged crimes.

How do you break into a house and find just the sort of stuff you're interested in if you haven't checked? I no longer think he's interested in cash and laptops with dildos and pants being just a bonus, I think it's the other way round.

I've a feeling there will be more crimes of s similar nature that he might he charged with.

How do you know the very best place to park to grab a possible lone student? Haworth street looks a perfect space for all his crimes, handy for the uni, for buses, short cut from uni to student housing, handy for the park, handy for knowing when students are out

How did Libby's body remain unfound for 7 weeks? I'm not sure her body went into the water near that bench. A opportunist would have panicked and left the body. He managed to put it somewhere at the right enough time to catch tides. it's sheer luck she was found before being lost forever

I agree he's probably not an intellectual giant (doesn't seem to have factored in CCTV for starters) but IMO he's been thinking about this for a while.

I think if Libby hadn't been there that night we'd be discussing exactly the same crime with the same POI. It would just be someone else's precious daughter. Just my opinions.

 

[Smccat]

How many places adjacent to the park could PR have parked his car?

Would he have been seen in CCTV where ever he parked?
Could he have left on foot without being seen and returned on a bike?

I’ve been thinking along these lines

 

[Vermont24]

I’ve been thinking along these lines

As far as I know, there is no CCTV on or immediately around the park. It's a residential area, so any cameras will likely be focused on back gardens, alleys and the allotments. Police will likely have him leaving and re-entering the main road though, near or close to the bench at the top of Haworth Street, which gives them a timeframe. That will be supported by mobile phone and possibly satnav data. It wouldn't have been especially difficult.

 

[Smccat]

That’s correct Audiohoney, the bike leaves the adjacent park path then goes back. Odd behaviour at that time of night.

That’s the thing he must of obtained a bike somehow. I realise this does sound far fetched though.

Could he have called someone to bring him a torch ‘no questions asked’ which they do and then leave.

 

[Audiohoney]

That’s correct Audiohoney, the bike leaves the adjacent park path then goes back. Odd behaviour at that time of night.

That’s the thing he must of obtained a bike somehow. I realise this does sound far fetched though.

Returning to the scene of his (alleged) crime doesn’t seem too far fetched. And a bike would be more sensible than going out in his car again which would be easier to track on cctv. Planting, finding or taking a bike seems unlikely. He might have cycled into the park at a different entrance though.

But I also think the theory that this guy on a bike is a local drug dealer is pretty plausible. I’m surprised police haven’t offered immunity from prosecution for unrelated minor offences to these wanted witnesses. They often do so don’t they?

 

[Miss_French]

Could he have called someone to bring him a torch ‘no questions asked’ which they do and then leave.

Torch on his mobile?

 

[Smccat]

Have you tried using one of those to do something other than just guide a small distance in front of you ? It wouldn’t be effective enough. Seems it inside but get a mobile torch outside and it’s rubbish

 

[Miss_French]

Have you tried using one of those to do something other than just guide a small distance in front of you ? It wouldn’t be effective enough. Seems it inside but get a mobile torch outside and it’s rubbish

Yes, used mine when I lost some keys in the dark, no other light, was fine for me.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

All the talk of the person on the bike reminds me of the Alice Gross case. Zalkans was seen on CCTV cycling the route Alice was walking and would have overtaken her.
There was no cause of death determined from her body when it was found in the river. Zalkans killed himself but police said they would have brought charges if he hadn't.

So I'm pondering what's different in this case. There's CCTV of the suspect in proximity to Libby and her body was found put into the water. Maybe In Alice's case it was because her bag was found discarded along her walking route and a broken phone, probably belonging to her under the suspects patio. Maybe police just need this one further small bit of evidence in Libby's case?

 

[Newthoughts]

I had initially thought that PR was maybe parked on Haworth to go to Sainsburys local on Beverley which closes at midnight. However, I’ve just been looking at Google Maps and I noticed that near his house, if you imagine his house being in the middle of a clock (this is a rough guide to visualize), there’s a Tesco Metro at 12 o clock and another Sainsburys local at 6 o’clock. Both open until midnight, both closer to his house. Both look easier to park outside rather than the dead end at Haworth. Trying to think why else he might have been on Haworth at that time.

I also noticed that if he drove from Haworth to Oak Road down Cottingham which would make most sense, he would have passed shops and other places with CCTV, most notably Natwest Bank which has CCTV. It would have been on the left side of the car so would have had the passenger closest to view.

Just some ponderings. Although really I guess if he has already said she was in his car it’s a bit irrelevant. Just hoping LE get somewhere with the 4 Oak Road CCTV individuals

Exactly - why would he be parked in Haworth other than it being a good spot to park for his nocturnal hobby?

It's a dead end. Not much passing traffic.

It brings you onto Cottingham road at one end. That is where the University is and hundreds of young women live on campus. Its also good short cut from campus to an area full of student houses via Beverley road on the other. There must be a lot of to and fro using it as a short cut. Remember the uni library is open 24 hours. I'm sure my daughter has wandered home late from there (they go out together but think they're safe if it's from the library

Thursday night was student night at the Welly. Between 12pm and 3am there would possibly be students in that area.

I do wonder if he thought Libby would make her way from the bench down Haworth to Cottingham road and campus and only moved to bench when it looked like she wasn't going to.

 

[TheCasual]

The worrying numbers of flashers and peeping toms caught in Hull

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The worrying numbers of flashers and peeping toms caught in Hull

Woah, Barry!!

 

[Enquirer-2019]

I disagree there about planning and lack of premeditation. In my opinion he's thought about this and planned it. Just my opinion.

Consider his other alleged crimes.

How do you break into a house and find just the sort of stuff you're interested in if you haven't checked? I no longer think he's interested in cash and laptops with dildos and pants being just a bonus, I think it's the other way round.

I've a feeling there will be more crimes of s similar nature that he might he charged with.

How do you know the very best place to park to grab a possible lone student? Haworth street looks a perfect space for all his crimes, handy for the uni, for buses, short cut from uni to student housing, handy for the park, handy for knowing when students are out

How did Libby's body remain unfound for 7 weeks? I'm not sure her body went into the water near that bench. A opportunist would have panicked and left the body. He managed to put it somewhere at the right enough time to catch tides. it's sheer luck she was found before being lost forever

I agree he's probably not an intellectual giant (doesn't seem to have factored in CCTV for starters) but IMO he's been thinking about this for a while.

I think if Libby hadn't been there that night we'd be discussing exactly the same crime with the same POI. It would just be someone else's precious daughter. Just my opinions.

This is the same direction my reasoning has been heading since we learnt about his alleged other crimes (I'm surmising guilty).

I did realise something for the first time last night, he is ONLY 24 years old, rather young to match the profile of a sexual predator with the ability to progress onto premeditated murder, and potentially (had he not been caught) evolve into a calculating, sadistic serial killer.

That said it has been known for some to start such crimes so young as I'm sure the pro's here know only too well... AND as he would be still an amateur, it is highly probable he 'would of' made some mistakes (leaving evidence/ trail leading to him) due to his inexperience in the midst of the act to in balancing his urges, of his apparent paraphilia.

 

[Joolz1975]

Woah, Barry!!

Love his look, the batman socks add that special something.

 

[Vermont24]

All the talk of the person on the bike reminds me of the Alice Gross case. Zalkans was seen on CCTV cycling the route Alice was walking and would have overtaken her.
There was no cause of death determined from her body when it was found in the river. Zalkans killed himself but police said they would have brought charges if he hadn't.

So I'm pondering what's different in this case. There's CCTV of the suspect in proximity to Libby and her body was found put into the water. Maybe In Alice's case it was because her bag was found discarded along her walking route and a broken phone, probably belonging to her under the suspects patio. Maybe police just need this one further small bit of evidence in Libby's case?

I'd forgotten about that case. Horrific - particularly the disposal of the body.

 

[Joolz1975]

I'd forgotten about that case. Horrific - particularly the disposal of the body.

Yeh really bad.

Then the coroner left a police file on a train

 

[Skigh]

I am wondering why....so many people are certain/ or so sure, that she was ever in the park? Because if the police were certain of that and certain she did not leave (prior to her body being found)....wouldn't they have focused a river task force and many more resources on river
searches, as opposed to a drone and the odd boat with a couple of men? I am asking generally speaking, because the missing pieces we have, we can only look at what would LE do if they knew for sure.

we also have the late night search of the bench at night perhaps indicating some informationPR may have given when being questioned .

I think there is some evidence showing he did reach the park with Libby.
Apart from CCTV and tracking his movement from his mobile phone
could it be soil samples from his shoes or plant evidence on his clothing?
I agree with you about river searches as if they were certain she did not leave the park that was the most obvious place to search.
in the April Jones case the police spent days going down the river with search and rescue dogs in the boat.