CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[Detective Miloooosh]

Yeah! It's hard to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if the cat isn't there!

Hi Nanz
Picking up on this do you not feel that there is so much of the story that can only originate from KK and clearly cannot be true either...Lets not forget KK has lied to the police & it's on record.
It seems to me, and sadly was, a love triangle with KK at the heart of it with the most urgent motive ? If he can set her up she can equally have set him up...
Now let's look at motive:
PF has no real motive whilst KK has jealousy...
If PF was planning a murder as is maintained WHY would he do it in such a messy way?
The whole machiatto story sounds like an idea originating from a jealous perspective not one of a macho cowboy not to mention the scented candle incident which sounds more like a genuine moment of intimacy between PF and KB which was retold by KK in the most jealously imagined way possible...ie blindfold then death by baseball battering. It makes no sense...if he was a planner then he wouldn't use such an absurdly messy means....
Now what if PF genuinely was trying to patch up with KB and this pissed off KK....She had the means to set him up calling into account all the 'phone evidence..
But to reiterate someone who plans to the extent of using 'phones etc is not going to throw away all the planning using a messy baseball bat then getting someone else to clean up.
Alternatively we know that there was communication between KK and KB so perhaps the former lured the latter out of the house and shot her with M's missing bullet then deposited blood to set PF up. Think about it we have her word against his when we realise she could have set him up ( just like she implies he did her)

 

[crhedBngr]

Hello WebSleuthers!!!! I am excited for the upcoming court dates and will be attending .

Oh PF. Thinks he is "so smart". This couldn't have been sloppier. First of all, a BAT. Bloody mess. Wondering if it was metal or wooden.

All the cameras around town. I have to think he has noticed the next door neighbors' camera at some point, going to KB's.

The fact that he "borrowed a smart phone" from someone to upload those YouTube dog videos. I don't think PF was very tech-savvy . Or understood in the LEAST how phones work. I bet PF has a flip phone.

RBBM

Wow! Can't wait to hear your comments!

 

[MassGuy]

Hi Nanz
Picking up on this do you not feel that there is so much of the story that can only originate from KK and clearly cannot be true either...Lets not forget KK has lied to the police & it's on record.
It seems to me, and sadly was, a love triangle with KK at the heart of it with the most urgent motive ? If he can set her up she can equally have set him up...
Now let's look at motive:
PF has no real motive whilst KK has jealousy...
If PF was planning a murder as is maintained WHY would he do it in such a messy way?
The whole machiatto story sounds like an idea originating from a jealous perspective not one of a macho cowboy not to mention the scented candle incident which sounds more like a genuine moment of intimacy between PF and KB which was retold by KK in the most jealously imagined way possible...ie blindfold then death by baseball battering. It makes no sense...if he was a planner then he wouldn't use such an absurdly messy means....
Now what if PF genuinely was trying to patch up with KB and this pissed off KK....She had the means to set him up calling into account all the 'phone evidence..
But to reiterate someone who plans to the extent of using 'phones etc is not going to throw away all the planning using a messy baseball bat then getting someone else to clean up.
Alternatively we know that there was communication between KK and KB so perhaps the former lured the latter out of the house and shot her with M's missing bullet then deposited blood to set PF up. Think about it we have her word against his when we realise she could have set him up ( just like she implies he did her)

Here’s a link to the court files, which includes search warrants and the arrest affidavit.

The information contained in those documents, paints a damning picture of PF.

I think you’ll find that the evidence all points in one direction.

His.

(New motions today).

Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - The People of the State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

 

[girlhasnoname]

Hoping we might hear something from the search. Still holding out hope!

 

[MassGuy]

CBS has asked to be supplied with a court transcript (from the preliminary hearing).

Court has yet to respond, but I think we’d all welcome having access to that.

Tweets are good, but the actual transcript is a hell of a lot better.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/002/Transcrip Request CBS.pdf

 

[GordianKnot]

Here’s a link to the court files, which includes search warrants and the arrest affidavit.

The information contained in those documents, paints a damning picture of PF.

I think you’ll find that the evidence all points in one direction.

His.

(New motions today).

Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - The People of the State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

Indeed.

Those court files are a veritable smorgasbord for DA May.
He's going to feast on PF come trial time.
Munch, munch.
Chomp, chomp.

JMO.

 

[SachinScratchin]

Here’s a link to the court files, which includes search warrants and the arrest affidavit.

The information contained in those documents, paints a damning picture of PF.

I think you’ll find that the evidence all points in one direction.

His.

(New motions today).

Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - The People of the State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

Sure but Milooosh has a point....let's keep it simple....PF has lawyered up so all info coming out is basically what the prosecution wants one to hear. let's think logically she could have set him up...
Think what the defence can say in the absence of a body

 

[MassGuy]

Wow!

Breaking:

New documents obtained by prosecutors in the Kelsey Berreth murder case could corroborate accusations by her fiancee and his lover that she harmed their young daughter.

It is unknown whether Frazee spoke with social workers about suspected abuse before Berreth disappeared. But the human services reports could support Lee’s statement about the motive – – to kill Berreth to protect their baby.

Kelsey Berreth murder case: Patrick Frazee claims Berreth abused daughter

 

[SachinScratchin]

Wow!

Breaking:

New documents obtained by prosecutors in the Kelsey Berreth murder case could corroborate accusations by her fiancee and his lover that she harmed their young daughter.

It is unknown whether Frazee spoke with social workers about suspected abuse before Berreth disappeared. But the human services reports could support Lee’s statement about the motive – – to kill Berreth to protect their baby.

Kelsey Berreth murder case: Patrick Frazee claims Berreth abused daughter

But that is not a strong motive to murder!

 

[SachinScratchin]

Wow!

Breaking:

New documents obtained by prosecutors in the Kelsey Berreth murder case could corroborate accusations by her fiancee and his lover that she harmed their young daughter.

It is unknown whether Frazee spoke with social workers about suspected abuse before Berreth disappeared. But the human services reports could support Lee’s statement about the motive – – to kill Berreth to protect their baby.

Kelsey Berreth murder case: Patrick Frazee claims Berreth abused daughter

something just does not ring true of the prosecution's position

 

[MassGuy]

Sure but Milooosh has a point....let's keep it simple....PF has lawyered up so all info coming out is basically what the prosecution wants one to hear. let's think logically she could have set him up...
Think what the defence can say in the absence of a body

Yes. But the evidence is the evidence.

There is no plausible explanation for the lies he told, especially his claim about when he last saw Kelsey (lie caught on surveillance when he returned to her home).

No explanation for the two days of fake texts and phone calls with a dead person.

No explanation for his phone and her phone, being together for that time period, especially when he hadn’t seen her since those two days prior.

Evidence indicates that KK arrived in Colorado, we’ll after this murder was committed.

Everything she has said in relation to her movements and actions, is corroborated by cell phone evidence, dog hits, forensic evidence, the presence of burned plastic, an accelerant, and disturbed earth.

Any narrative that makes her the killer, has to ignore or discount these facts.

 

[MassGuy]

But that is not a strong motive to murder!

People kill for a hell of a lot less

Custody is a big motive to some people.

 

[GordianKnot]

Wow!

Breaking:

New documents obtained by prosecutors in the Kelsey Berreth murder case could corroborate accusations by her fiancee and his lover that she harmed their young daughter.

It is unknown whether Frazee spoke with social workers about suspected abuse before Berreth disappeared. But the human services reports could support Lee’s statement about the motive – – to kill Berreth to protect their baby.

Kelsey Berreth murder case: Patrick Frazee claims Berreth abused daughter

Wow is right!

Of course, the keyword in that headline is "could." New documents "could" corroborate, not "do" corroborate.

The fact that PF called and spoke with social workers doesn't mean that any abuse report he made was substantiated.

It will be interesting to find out when he made this report and what allegations PF made against KB.
It will also be interesting to see what the findings were.
The fact that Baby K. did not remain in CO in the custody of SF is quite, quite intriguing given this abuse report apparently made by PF against KB.

This latest news certainly really points to your conclusions re: a custody motive being at the heart of the murder, MG.

JMO.

 

[The Night Watchman]

Wow!

Breaking:

New documents obtained by prosecutors in the Kelsey Berreth murder case could corroborate accusations by her fiancee and his lover that she harmed their young daughter.

It is unknown whether Frazee spoke with social workers about suspected abuse before Berreth disappeared. But the human services reports could support Lee’s statement about the motive – – to kill Berreth to protect their baby.

Kelsey Berreth murder case: Patrick Frazee claims Berreth abused daughter

"could corroborate" and "could support"

In legalese, this phrases tend not to mean much, especially when written by MSM. Have to see what really is there. Hearsay from PF, and his friends?

 

[SachinScratchin]

Det Milooosh makes some good points

 

[MassGuy]

"could corroborate" and "could support"

In legalese, this phrases tend not to mean much, especially when written by MSM. Have to see what really is there. Hearsay from PF, and his friends?

Exactly. It is an interpretation of this document.

It goes to motive, and appears to involve statements by PF, “the defendant.”

Kelsey didn’t lose custody, so it appears that no action was taken.

I believe the accusations to be false.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/002/P-9 People's Notice of Department of Human Services Records in the District Attorney's Possession and Motion for Disclosure and Protective Order.pdf

 

[Detective Miloooosh]

Which is part of my point if the prosucution are relying on custrody as PF's motive it's weak there is no body & PF being a planner had all the time in the world to take KB to court not kill her. He loved the child, i think they both did that wasnt the problem. The problem was the re introduction of KK into his life .... I hate to say it because until we hear his defence we are all in the dark, but it sounds more likley a case of Fatel Attraction and the framing of PF.

 

[The Night Watchman]

Which is part of my point if the prosucution are relying on custrody as PF's motive it's weak there is no body & PF being a planner had all the time in the world to take KB to court not kill her. He loved the child, i think they both did that wasnt the problem. The problem was the re introduction of KK into his life .... I hate to say it because until we hear his defence we are all in the dark, but it sounds more likley a case of Fatel Attraction and the framing of PF.

Well, that is certainly a theory.

A really poor theory that facts do not support, and no one believes.

But I can't deny that it is a theory.

 

[MassGuy]

Which is part of my point if the prosucution are relying on custrody as PF's motive it's weak there is no body & PF being a planner had all the time in the world to take KB to court not kill her. He loved the child, i think they both did that wasnt the problem. The problem was the re introduction of KK into his life .... I hate to say it because until we hear his defence we are all in the dark, but it sounds more likley a case of Fatel Attraction and the framing of PF.

Chris Watts massacred his family because he wanted a new life. He could have divorced his wife.

Same with Scott Peterson (Laci).

Both had other women in their lives.

Motive comes in many forms, and does not have to be proven by the prosecution.

 

[SachinScratchin]

Yes. But the evidence is the evidence.

There is no plausible explanation for the lies he told, especially his claim about when he last saw Kelsey (lie caught on surveillance when he returned to her home).

No explanation for the two days of fake texts and phone calls with a dead person.

No explanation for his phone and her phone, being together for that time period, especially when he hadn’t seen her since those two days prior.

Evidence indicates that KK arrived in Colorado, we’ll after this murder was committed.

Everything she has said in relation to her movements and actions, is corroborated by cell phone evidence, dog hits, forensic evidence, the presence of burned plastic, an accelerant, and disturbed earth.

Any narrative that makes her the killer, has to ignore or discount these facts.

OK let's play devil's advocate:
Imagine KK is setting up PF totally....Ignore likelihood for a moment...
Could a defence argue that and explain all the evidence?