Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #96

[Tomatoesradiowire]

Regarding impeding the investigation, there is a big spread in tip quality.

They hope someone who saw the suspect or the vehicle contacts them. Or if you know or see someone now that raises your suspicions and has a connection to the area, that is helpful.

Tipping “you should look at registered sex offenders” or “maybe the guy is a teacher or coach” or “maybe his leg is injured” are not good tips. The FBI is involved. They all went to Crime Solving 101 class.

It’s interesting to brainstorm and share ideas here and elsewhere, for sure. It’s fine to be compassionate and curious about the case.
They have released enough that someone who knows BG should be able to identify him.

Edit: car to vehicle

 

[raja]

I'm wondering if the 'couple' a witness saw from the bridge could be BG and one of the girls. From a distance of 70+ feet, the person may not have been able to surmise that it was a negative encounter (to put it mildly), but rather observed a male and female from the bridge. Maybe the other girl was out of view.

I now think DG asked witness if he had seen 2 girls. The witness was responding a couple were arguing by the bridge. JMO

 

[apples12]

I've been doing a LOT of thinking over the past week. I've torn the PC apart and examined every word. I posted shortly after the Presser to make the comment that I felt that every word was chosen specifically and that LE was on script. I still believe that.

1. The Shack - I don't think this was just arbitrarily thrown into the mix, just because. It was part of the Presser for a specific reason. It brings religion, spirituality, faith, redemption, forgiveness and other christian themes to the forefront. Somehow, LE believes that either the POI is religious in himself, OR there is a religious reason for the murders. They played on those beliefs in the Presser to elicit a response somehow. I do not believe we can discount "The Shack" as meaning nothing. It was mentioned for a specific reason.

2. The Timing of The Presser - Easter Monday is significant I believe. Again it goes to religion and a belief system. Jesus DIED FOR OUR SINS is the theme of Easter and new life. Forgiveness and the promise of being born again. Jesus is risen. To me, this was Presser was timed to take advantage of those themes and thoughts. The girls have risen and are not how you left them. They are in a better place. Then pressure on the killer by way of the Easter theme of someone dying for his sins. I could be way off base here but just thinking out loud at this point.

3. The Timing of the Presser and Prior Notice - They wanted as many people there as possible. They know they are looking for a younger person so over Easter break University Students would be home. If the Killer is a University student then the likliehood of him being home for Easter is a possibility. If there are religious ties, then being home for Easter is even more likely.

4. "We've either interviewed you or someone close to you" - This is to illicit fear. OMG you know me! It's also a message to whoever he's either told or who is protecting him that LE is on to them.

5. Hiding in Plain Sight - How do you hide in plain sight? Well, the original sketch allowed the killer to hide in plain sight for 2 years. That's number 1. You hide in plain sight when you believe you are untouchable and no one would suspect. You hold a position in the community that holds you in fairly high esteem. Teachers, Clergy, LE, Policitians, Volunteers, Firemen, Doctors, Paramedics, Government Officials. You are someone that can talk the talk and walk the walk and people would NEVER suspect you. You are from Delphi or neighbouring areas. You belong there. You know people. You know the lay of the land. You are connected. You are beyond reproach. You can walk down the street and know people. You are one of them. This is probably the most frightening part about this whole thing. Everybody knows you.

Sorry for the long post but I've been thinking about this presser for days now and I just had to get this all out.

MOO as always.

I really agree with you. I found the PC to be extraordinarily revealing. It seemed designed to elicit a specific person's response.

 

[Wells]

Thanks for the response.Good to see you again ocgrad.

Quoting CE from linked source:

“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge,” CME wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.”

Abigail Williams & Liberty German: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

We have CE an eye witness who mentions seeing a couple during the tight timeline when the girls are first discovered missing. Then Libby’s dad also speaks to still another person at the bridge who mentions seeing a couple in those critical moments. Oh I wish with all my heart that this would help investigators find BG.

Did I phrase this correct? Or am I getting facts confused? I hope this has not already been rehashed on another thread.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

MOO

This sounds correct to me from what I have read and heard. Thank you. I am going to edit my initial post about eyewitnesses.

 

[raja]

Perhaps the "couple seen" was a red herring.

 

[PaulaDC]

I think an entire thread two threads back was only this comment. Everyone agrees.

 

[kathryann]

Did they ever find the arguing couple?

 

[Boxer]

Regarding impeding the investigation, there is a big spread in tip quality.

They hope someone who saw the suspect or the car contacts them. Or if you know or see someone now that raises your suspicions and has a connection to the area, that is helpful.

Tipping “you should look at registered sex offenders” or “maybe the guy is a teacher or coach” or “maybe his leg is injured” are not good tips. The FBI is involved. They all went to Crime Solving 101 class.

It’s interesting to brainstorm and share ideas here and elsewhere, for sure. It’s fine to be compassionate and curious about the case.
They have released enough that someone who knows BG should be able to identify him.

MOO Police accept the huge tip
barrage as part of the whole effort and they have ways to sort and assign.

I think what police are really saying here that they can tell a real tip from a media inspired one. Meaning, we are in the track we will get you.

 

[taximama24]

I absolutely agree with you. I think that is why they are asking about the driver of the vehicle seen between 12 and 5 at the abandon building, and not releasing the make and model. THEY KNOW the Make
AND MODEL! They are waiting for someone to call and tell them the make and model so they know the tip is credible. Otherwise, they will get 5000 unrelated tips, and waste countless hours investigating. MOO

I'm not so sure they are even asking that, I find it highly unlikely any new recollection of a car in the area two years later could hold up as reliable in a trial. I think this was their way of letting him know/reminding him that they know he was parked there and in the area at the time of the murders. It was a very quick, lower volume, and not urgent delivery during the presser. I don't think they wanted the public really focusing on that, they just wanted him to know they know where he parked (and for him to presume they know a lot more than that) since for two years he's thinking he got away with this and is probably starting to settle into being comfortable again.

 

[Amandaaa]

Didn’t the LE say there was only one person involved? I’m sure I remember hearing and seeing that. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Idk - I read something attributed to LE stating they hadn’t ruled out the involvement of more than one person - but I have no clue where I read it, whether it was legit, or whether it was recent (vs the beginning of the investigation).

I will see if I can find it



JMO

 

[Tomatoesradiowire]

Did they ever find the arguing couple?

Also curious about that! I’ve heard both “couple taking pictures” and “arguing”. Has ANY couple come forth to clear or identify themselves? If they haven’t, it’s not impossible that what was seen involved the girls and BG (only saw him leading one while other was ahead or behind? Just heard voices of man and female?)

 

[Amandaaa]

“Officials haven’t ruled out the possibility that more than one person is involved.”

Cops say Ind. teen murder victim recorded suspect; chilling audio released

(Of course, maybe that has changed...)

JMO

 

[Wells]

Here is what I have so far: I've heard mention of a 1.) teenager witness (or possibly a group of teenagers) who saw 2.) someone dressed all in black, 3.) a woman who provided the details for the OBG sketch, 4.) the man coming off the trail that Libby's Dad spoke with, 5.) possibly a person in flannel (may be the same as the person Libby's Dad spoke with), 6.) the actual recording from Libby's phone, 7.) a witness who felt something they needed to be reported (this mention may be referring to the recording from Libby's phone) that provided the details for the NBG sketch and a 8 - 9). couple under the bridge (may have been the girls / may not have been / may not have existed at all). I don't have links for all of this yet but if requested I can provide the ones I do have references for.

Edited to add: ... and 10.) woman on bridge (CE) who stated "she had been at the bridge shortly after the girls posted the photo. She said she didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary. '“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) 11.) a guy when I first got there and 12-13.) another couple once I got on the bridge,” CME wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.”

Assuming none of these are the suspect I am counting 10 -13 potential witnesses.

 

[BlueShoe]

I still don't understand why they would leave the scratchy part in. It does not aid in recognizing the voice. Whether the Guys was said in the same sentence as DTH or added to provide more voice tone the scratchy part could have been cut but it wasn't.

I've been wondering this also. There could be several reasons, but one that is possible is that they wanted to leave that part in because BG would know what was said at that point. They wanted to garble it so that no one else could hear it, but still wanted the spacing, for lack of a better term, to trigger the rest of the context for BG. Perhaps it was something specific that could speak to motive, or some other information that only the murderer would know. Maybe. But it is puzzling why the recording is like this. MOO

 

[Tomatoesradiowire]

MOO Police accept the huge tip
barrage as part of the whole effort and they have ways to sort and assign.

I think what police are really saying here that they can tell a real tip from a media inspired one. Meaning, we are in the track we will get you.

I’m sure they are used to it and are able to work through them, but it is also helpful for the general public to have an understanding of what information is being sought. That’s why the infographic of what they want included when possible is being shared IMO.
It’s not going to derail the case to get a bunch of bad tips, but it is going to waste SOME amount of time and resources.

 

[ocgrad]

If “under the bridge” refers to near the river, thats quite a distance from the end of the bridge because much of the bridge passes over land. The river and land in relation to the bridge is illustrated on this link:

A 360 tour of the Monon High Bridge

That's right. Has it ever been clear where under the bridge meant? Someone where the bridge crosses the creek couldn't see the area the girls bodies were found. I'm not sure how far the nature trail leads to the creek. Does it go all the way to the bridge?

 

[Boxer]

Idk - I read something attributed to LE stating they hadn’t ruled out the involvement of more than one person - but I have no clue where I read it, whether it was legit, or whether it was recent (vs the beginning of the investigation).

I will see if I can find it



JMO

I recall that also.
IIRC at the PC they said YBG sketch is the man on the bridge and the man that killed them. All the same individual.
Next day, a little clarification was put out that even so, that did not exclude the possibility there was an accomplice.

 

[margarita25]

Bringing this post over from the last thread, thank you Choochoobella:

Choochoobella
Well-Known Member
“Best Case Worst Case Delphi Murders Podcast

What does the location of this crime tell you about the offender?


Jim said the perpetrator is probably from around Delphi and spends a significant amount of time there. Whether he grew up there or landed there from somewhere else, we don’t know, but Jim said the offender knew that this was a place where little girls who fit his fantasy could be. Jim’s profile of the offender: He’s the kind of guy who fantasized a great deal about doing this. This was not impulsive. This is something that he had planned for. It didn’t go exactly as he planned, but he had thought about this, he was compulsive, he had played this fantasy out in his mind over and over. He took steps to carry it out: preparing a place to carry out the crime, figuring out how to threaten and control the victim, and preparing a place where he could be unseen until a victim arrived. He has some level of criminal sophistication that only comes from having committed precursive crimes. He might have exhibited peeping behavior, he might have broken into residences to go through underwear drawers, etc. He gets off on the excitement and thrill of being in a place you’re not supposed to be and looking at people’s intimate things. He almost certainly did these things, but we don’t know whether he was caught for these misdemeanor crimes. He seems to have some forensic sophistication because it doesn’t seem as though he left much forensic evidence behind.


Maureen thought it likely the perpetrator has been stalking the trail. She thought it was likely that in the 18,000 tips LE got in the first four months after the crime, some tips were probably from people who had seen this guy at some point in the past on the trail. She thought it was likely some people had called in tips on the perpetrator since LE is very sure that this guy has been living in the town or his family lives in the town or he works there or plays there.


Jim Clemente called this trail/bridge a “target-rich environment.” He likened it to the area in which Hannah Graham of UVA was abducted before being murdered. He talked about how Hannah was walking around, inebriated, and a guy who claimed to be a good Samaritan had started following her. While that guy was following her, Jesse Matthew (Hannah’s killer), showed up and put his arm around Hannah and walked off with her. Jim questions the motive of “the good Samaritan.” He thinks that guy might have wanted to sexually assault Hannah too. On video, we can see that “the good Samaritan” was lying in wait, stepping into the shadows as he followed Hannah, but Jim said that guy was following Hannah so slowly that the other guy was able to overtake her first. He gave that example to describe another target-rich environment. When there are vulnerable victims around, these guys are drawn to these target-rich environments. Jim said that in these environments, predators are looking for vulnerability, availability and desirability. Sometimes desirability may simply be a combination of vulnerability and availability. Abby and Libby were in a target-rich environment and happened to fall into this guy’s net. Jim also cited Israel Keyes as a predator who set traps and chose victims that were vulnerable and available; there was not a desirability factor in who he killed. Israel buried kill kits across the nation and set traps He killed the first vulnerable, available person or people to come by. Jim said there are offenders who get off on the kill itself.”

Source link:
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #95

 

[Gumbeaux]

There are some interesting sermons.
I think an arrest will come soon .It really will be someone's Darkest Hour.

Samuel L. Jackson’s character in Pulp Fiction would be handy.

 

[ab01]

I'm not so sure they are even asking that, I find it highly unlikely any new recollection of a car in the area two years later could hold up as reliable in a trial. I think this was their way of letting him know/reminding him that they know he was parked there and in the area at the time of the murders. It was a very quick, lower volume, and not urgent delivery during the presser. I don't think they wanted the public really focusing on that, they just wanted him to know they know where he parked (and for him to presume they know a lot more than that) since for two years he's thinking he got away with this and is probably starting to settle into being comfortable again.

I tend to agree, I think there were a lot of things in that press conference that were intended to make BG question what all evidence that investigators may have on him.

They want him to feel as though the walls are closing in

They want him to start acting out of his normal routine and character and missing work/ previous commitments

they want him to tell someone that he thinks he is being framed

They basically just want him to talk, talk to anyone about his uneasiness

They probably have there eyes and ears focused on a small group of suspects and are just waiting to pounce