Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #97

[Tillicum]

Silencers alone are not that quiet like in the movies. You still need ear pro if you're shooting a suppressed gun because of the sonic boom of the round as it leaves the barrel.

Granted, in the crime area we are talking about, you would not be able to tell direction but the shots would be audible to the hikers. It is also possible that it would not be recognized as gunfire but someone would surely go "what was that?", enough to generate comments to law enforcement afterwards.

To get to that level of quietness the killer would need here and to not alert anyone around in that wooded area (my assumption is that the crime scene is about a mile away from the closest hiker/person) one would need a can, subsonic rounds (.45 acp is naturally subsonic), and quick action. At that point your slide would literally make more noise than the round. Possible but...

You would also need to get through a complete ATF background check and wait an average of 190 days before you can even get your suppressor (ATF Wait Times). And I won't even go into the costs of threaded barrels.

So to get to that level of planning (and knowledge) to be able to have that in your possession to commit this crime means a LOT of premeditation. Meaning that this person had kept such a quiet profile thus far and had such a clean background to be able to get a can and go kill two girls on a hiking trail. Again, not impossible but it starts to become less and less likely.

NOTE: Still waiting on verification, so treat the above as MOO.

How do you think he was able to get them there and kill them with no one hearing anything?

 

[Seattle1]

That is a good question. We know the first sketch came from the FBI. They use a program called FACES, an added feature is extracting facial features from video to create a composite. So was the FBI fooled by the disguise or did they just rely on the software? If the witness who was afraid saw him with his head and face covered they just saw his eyes, so the rest of the sketch had to be guessed at, IMO. But then according to some retired LE officers who claimed to have inside info, the sketch was a SO who was arrested and convicted last year.
While we have confidence to see the FBI step in, they may have been the agency who caused the last 2 years to be offtrack especially considering the ISP officer made the sketch 3 days afterwards without his head and face covered!

This news link from a few pages back quoting Sheriff TL presented the most info I was aware of about the disregarded sketch.

Do you have a link confirming your factual account of FACES software, etc. Thanks in advance.

Also, there's already much info available about Trooper Taylor Bryant -- artist of relevant sketch. I'm surprised investigators identified the artist by name!

UPDATE: Witness aided in sketch of suspect in Indiana teens' deaths

 

[Snoop Sister]

No, the area directly to the left of the support. I will re-draw later for clarity. Suggest you enlarge that area with your fingers on a phone. I have an IPhone XS, but it is clearer on my IPad. Then, if you see something odd as well, look at the original image on a higher res device. I’m seeing something I can’t unsee, so extra eyes would be helpful to eliminate a false pattern possibility. If I say what I am seeing it may prejudice other people’s interpretation as well.

This was discussed many threads back but I don’t recall what the conclusion was. I just remember it not being significant in mo

 

[NickoD]

How do you think he was able to get them there and kill them with no one hearing anything?

I am of the opinion that he quite possibly used the fear of a gun but the actual murder weapon was either a blade or strangulation.

ETA: I also know how to lead two people without a firearm but I don't feel like providing a murder HOWTO here. So I am providing the simplest explanation for me.

 

[mtnlites]

I've lived in the country most of my life and didn't pay attention to gunshots until I started reading here For several years now I always look at the clock whenever I hear a gunshot and mentally note how many shots I hear.

Yeah, I still tune them out. If I really think about then I can count about half a dozen I've heard today, but the only thing I could tell you is that they happened after daylight. I'd make a terrible witness, but I accept that.

 

[MistyWaters]

Silencers alone are not that quiet like in the movies. You still need ear pro if you're shooting a suppressed gun because of the sonic boom of the round as it leaves the barrel.

Granted, in the crime area we are talking about, you would not be able to tell direction but the shots would be audible to the hikers. It is also possible that it would not be recognized as gunfire but someone would surely go "what was that?", enough to generate comments to law enforcement afterwards.

To get to that level of quietness the killer would need here and to not alert anyone around in that wooded area (my assumption is that the crime scene is about a mile away from the closest hiker/person) one would need a can, subsonic rounds (.45 acp is naturally subsonic), and quick action. At that point your slide would literally make more noise than the round. Possible but...

You would also need to get through a complete ATF background check and wait an average of 190 days before you can even get your suppressor (ATF Wait Times). And I won't even go into the costs of threaded barrels.

So to get to that level of planning (and knowledge) to be able to have that in your possession to commit this crime means a LOT of premeditation. Meaning that this person had kept such a quiet profile thus far and had such a clean background to be able to get a can and go kill two girls on a hiking trail. Again, not impossible but it starts to become less and less likely.

NOTE: Still waiting on verification, so treat the above as MOO.

I don’t think we can assume nobody heard gunshots in the distance.
All we know is if anyone heard gunshots in the distance they didn’t talk to the media about it. And as we don’t know the cause of death, theories are all over the place but indeed something caused it.

If someone did hear gunshots perhaps at the time they weren’t unduly alarmed as the sound came from the direction of private land where landowners might be shooting rabbits or maybe they thought they heard something in the distance they weren’t certain of what and as silence followed, they wrote it off.

Otherwise all we really know is nobody reported anything that resulted in the police checking out the area that same afternoon because when the girls were later reported missing, no foul play was suspected.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

It also looks like Delphi is spending 1.2M to restore the Monon bridge trail.

 

[ocgrad]

No, the area directly to the left of the support. I will re-draw later for clarity. Suggest you enlarge that area with your fingers on a phone. I have an IPhone XS, but it is clearer on my IPad. Then, if you see something odd as well, look at the original image on a higher res device. I’m seeing something I can’t unsee, so extra eyes would be helpful to eliminate a false pattern possibility. If I say what I am seeing it may prejudice other people’s interpretation as well.

Stone foundation under steel pier.

 

[ocgrad]

It also looks like Delphi is spending 1.2M to restore the Monon bridge trail.

Hope they add hand rails!

 

[MistyWaters]

Yeah, I still tune them out. If I really think about then I can count about half a dozen I've heard today, but the only thing I could tell you is that they happened after daylight. I'd make a terrible witness, but I accept that.

People living in an urban area would certainly call 911 immediately upon hearing a gunshot, but in rural areas I agree, it’s really not that unusual. Particularly if the sounds are coming from the direction of private land, LE doesn’t care if Mr Land Owner is shooting beer cans off a tree stump.

 

[NickoD]

Hope they add hand rails!

And a memorial to the innocence lost that day.

 

[mtnlites]

People living in an urban area would certainly call 911 immediately upon hearing a gunshot, but in rural areas I agree, it’s really not that unusual. Particularly if the sounds are coming from the direction of private land, LE doesn’t care if Mr Land Owner is shooting beer cans off a tree stump.

To be honest, it's one of the perks of living this way.

 

[ocgrad]

In the link above, I wonder what “in part” means.

That was referring to the 2017 sketch which was supplied by the FBI. It was a composite sketch. They use a program which can extract from video which I believe they used on that. Now a lot of LE agencies can use the program and generate sketches. That is where that lifelike shading comes from in the 2017 sketch.
Redirect Notice

 

[MistyWaters]

They have involved Nasa and Disney to to make the quality of the pictures they can .The FBI are involved.
They have contacted every specialist they can think of to help them.Money is not a consideration in solving this.
Are you really being serious thinking they might not know about the latest technology or Parabon?
I am sure Doug Carter would welcome you insights into their investigation.

Of the 40,000 or so “tips” it’d be very interesting to know how many of those are advising LE to send the suspects DNA to Parabon!

 

[LadyL]

Can we move on from the respirator thing please, Bane is not a person of interest in this crime.

and who is Bane

 

[Jabarn]

John Kelly Profiler.
Published on May 2, 2019
Trying to eliminate possible motives for the murder of Abby Williams and Libby German.

This take is interesting to me, as well as the possible “cooling off period” John Kelly speaks. Another interesting point is the BG may not have reoffended because of fear of being caught.

Hopefully, Supt. Carter has scared BG about being caught so he doesn’t reoffend and will catch him, too.

As time goes by, I am more impressed with Carter. Hope you all are as well.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Silencers alone are not that quiet like in the movies. You still need ear pro if you're shooting a suppressed gun because of the sonic boom of the round as it leaves the barrel.

Granted, in the crime area we are talking about, you would not be able to tell direction but the shots would be audible to the hikers. It is also possible that it would not be recognized as gunfire but someone would surely go "what was that?", enough to generate comments to law enforcement afterwards.

To get to that level of quietness the killer would need here and to not alert anyone around in that wooded area (my assumption is that the crime scene is about a mile away from the closest hiker/person) one would need a can, subsonic rounds (.45 acp is naturally subsonic), and quick action. At that point your slide would literally make more noise than the round. Possible but...

You would also need to get through a complete ATF background check and wait an average of 190 days before you can even get your suppressor (ATF Wait Times). And I won't even go into the costs of threaded barrels.

So to get to that level of planning (and knowledge) to be able to have that in your possession to commit this crime means a LOT of premeditation. Meaning that this person had kept such a quiet profile thus far and had such a clean background to be able to get a can and go kill two girls on a hiking trail. Again, not impossible but it starts to become less and less likely.

NOTE: Still waiting on verification, so treat the above as MOO.

Appreciate the insight. I'm also of the opinion not all silencers are obtained legally.

 

[MizStery]

then according to some retired LE officers who claimed to have inside info, the sketch was a SO who was arrested and convicted last year.

Where’s the link pertaining to the retired police officers who said they had inside info please, and secondly, how would we know whether they were retired police officers or not?

Hi ocgrad and Misty Waters,
This was not directed at me but I think the ‘retired officers with inside info’ was posted last thread. The discussion concerning the SO being identified and cleared came from the Best Case/Worst Case podcast with Jim Clemente. I believe that is the source. One of our ace posters transcribed the entire podcast and posted it.

I should add I would need to reread it to remember the exact context. So I will simply add ‘this is my opinion only’ or to be honest given my faulty memory this is to the best of my recollection.

 

[Snoop Sister]

and who is Bane

Yes, who is Bane?

 

[MsBetsy]

They have involved Nasa and Disney to to make the quality of the pictures they can .The FBI are involved.
They have contacted every specialist they can think of to help them.Money is not a consideration in solving this.
Are you really being serious thinking they might not know about the latest technology or Parabon?
I am sure Doug Carter would welcome you insights into their investigation.

In fact there is an article written about a year ago that talks about the use of familial DNA testing in this case.
Leazenby talks about how it's being discussed, but they haven't made a decision yet.
He says it's on the table and it might help them reach success.
It also mentions some of the issues, such as resources and costs.
It's very informative, but I don't know how to link it.
It's from the Journal and Courier and the title is, "Familial DNA search might unlock Delphi killers identity."
June 1 2018.